Saint Fan CaM

For a start you’re not comparing apples with apples - why not quote UK National men or for that matter why not quote all migrants…women and men? And anyway, if those numbers are true, is it also true therefore that 18% of migrant men claim benefits and use the NHS without doing a single days work and contributing tax/NI? That’s 18% of how many migrants in the last 14 years?

You said that, not me.

And what % of the immigrants from the last 14 years that are still in the country actually work and pay income tax etc? I don’t know, but I bet you don’t either which makes your argument, while correct in theory, somewhat mute. They don’t pay the same as anyone else living in the country, but they do cost the taxpayer from the day they land in the country. Do you think they should pay back the benefits that they’ve received but not earned - a bit like UK resident students have to pay back their student fees? You say the money is already there, but then say it’s not there because it’s been pissed up the wall. Which is it?

That’s what I loath about some of the political debates - nobody wants to come honest with the costs - I.e. what taxation is required to deliver all of the services we expect. There are dimwits who shout down the government about not spending enough, but in the same breath moan like crazy about taxes being too high - the Government’s money IS OUR money and it doesn’t grow on trees - you want more…pay more tax (and vote for a party that distributes it for the benefit of everyone). Water companies - the worst privatisation in the history of Tory rule and there’s been some corkers. Ofwat should legislate so Water Companies are not allowed to provide one penny of profits to shareholders until the services are fixed, including as a priority the pollution of our waterways. Where did the money from the sale of the water companies go…has there been any form of forensic accounting of what happened to OUR money? Modern day ‘Robin Hood story’ of theft but in reverse!

Exactly, plus what about their ‘next of kin’ minders/friends that are allowed to stay also?

That’s likely, but I’d rather it was Tyler D instead of Aribo - much more chance of feeding AA or BBD.

Even if we sign someone between now and Saturdays opener, I don’t think they'll be starting the game. Possibly not even on the bench.

Oh absolutely - but I was referring to us, the supporters (which is slightly different to say the team conceding lots of goals and losing more games than winning them). However, there is a glimmer of hope when you see some of last seasons over-achievers start selling off their prize assets. And who knows, there may be a signing before the end of the window that’s the catalyst to a great season. Maybe.

And there it is, insult the poster…nice.

Wow that was pretty bleak. We’re going to have a tough season if that’s any indication.

You appear to have a very simplistic view of the World and your argument as a result has suffered to the point where you’re trying to 2nd guess what I think to win points! You don’t know immigrants wanting to enter the UK are all fleeing war torn countries - that’s plain wrong. Russia invading England is a daft repose - no relevance to the debate and you know it. If you’ve offered a valid explanation of why people want to come here and immigration is out of control I must have missed it.

I’ve paid for a video pass but can’t get the steam!

An interesting question. Why do these people with expensive phones/contracts and have the means to pay thousands to smugglers want to come to live here? For the most part it’s not because they’re fleeing persecution - if it was they’d take up residence in Greece or some other safe EU country (some do of course). I’ve travelled the World a bit - this is definitely one of the best countries to live without doubt.

Again, I’m not disagreeing with the suggestion…it just won’t stop the boats without some form of deterrent. How many of the boat people do you think have access to on-line means / time? Not too many I would guess…they’re desperate and want a quick solution. The smuggling gangs will make sure there’s a product to sell still.

Don’t disagree with your comment as such, however it has to be recognised that there is more than one group causing unrest.

I agree with all you’ve said in terms of process. My point of disagreement is that I am not sure the very sensible approach you suggest will actually stop the boats. If the policy was to immediately deport individuals not using the correct application process then in time it could work, but unfortunately it takes time to bite and in that time the liberal media will use it as a stick when the next child drowns.

I’m not quite sure what your point is. Every stage of seeking asylum is a part of a process. The problem is there is no robust and effective process and that has been the case for more than 14 years. Where outside the country are these applications being made? The French don’t want it on their land - Brexit did for that. Even if a processing centre was set-up, I’d wager that the boats would still come with little impact on reducing numbers - why do you think Starmer’s strategy is to employ more border force officials…to process asylum claims? There’s only one effective way to fairly control immigration and that’s to take control of the tap - not mop up the flood.

RE Wales, that’s because the Welsh are very protective of their national identity - do you not support that? If you do, then why do you deny the English the same courtesy? Anyone can speak any language they want - that’s the beauty of living in a free society such as exists in the UK - however the point is that it is indicative of a lack of social integration and could be seen as contributing to the dilution of national identity and the divisions that can cause, whether we like or not.

So what - that’s not valid evidence… they may well speak two languages, but if you walk through certain areas of many major UK cities you will often hear foreign languages spoken by supposed UK residents. It’s their right to do so of course, but does that indicate social integration?

There’s a lot of sense in what you’ve said, however those being accepted into our country have been done so under what rules and conditions? And what happens to them after they’ve been ‘released’ into the general community? Where’s the coherent plan to get them working and integrating? And as far as Reform is concerned, the party had an increase in support because the Tories lost so much support…largely not because they attracted new voters and with any chance of them forming a Government. Yes, there’s a need for a robust process that works, but that doesn’t stop the boats does it?

It’s completely irrelevant whether an immigrant is legal or illegal - social cohesion, housing and public services will increasingly suffer if immigration is not controlled. The facts are readily available - every day every news outlet reports on these issues and it doesn’t take a masters in math to know that cutting taxes is certainly not going to solve the problem. The Tories failed at controlling immigration and so far it would appear Labour don't have a credible plan of action either.

I think the fact they’ve not featured largely in any pre-season games tells much.

Yep. Probably most important of all is they’ve decided to break British law by attempting entry by illegal means. Often there’s little or no attempt to integrate into a mixed community, preferring instead to settle into a ‘ghetto’ of their choosing. There’s little or no attempt to learn the English language - preference is to stick with friends or family that continue to speak the language of their origins. There’s no giving up on certain beliefs in relation to human rights, for example holding women in low regard with no equality or voice or worse still continuing to practice body mutilations which are illegal in the UK. To be clear these issues are not about the colour of someone’s skin etc., it’s about how far does a nation go in being tolerant of immigration diluting the fabric of the society that represented the very reasons the immigrants had in wanting to come here. Unless of course they had no particular interest in Britain or its cultural values in the first place.

I don’t usually visit the Lounge but this thread I found interesting. To answer the above, yes, we are a tolerant society - just look at the diversity that has existed for decades, but surely that means accepting LEGAL immigrants who can fully integrate and add value to our society. Apart from the fact that illegal immigrants should not be allowed to stay (with zero tolerance), there should be no expectation that immigrants can settle into their own ‘ghetto’ without working for the rights we’ve come to expect (and that applies to ANY colour/race/ethnicity/religion). The question is, why do illegal immigrants want to risk their lives in a dingy to come and live in a culture that is very different to the one they’ve come from? The evidence suggests they’re not really interested in integrating into Great Britain…they might have friends or relatives already here, but they could be anywhere…they know they can enjoy THEIR home nation/society here, but also happily take the free benefits on offer from day one. The genie is well and truly out of the bottle - with politicians promises of taxes being cut, Brexit and Ukraine effects, our public services and finances are being stretched to breaking point. It’s no wonder that there’s growing division across the country.

Sportswitness reporting… Southampton eye deal for Oliver Skipp from Tottenham Southampton are one of three Premier League sides eyeing up a deal to bring in Oliver Skipp from Tottenham, with Leicester City and Ipswich Town also reportedly interested, per The Telegraph. It is reported that Skipp is keen for more game time at Premier League level, with the three promoted sides willing to offer that to the 23-year-old.