david in sweden

to be fair......they were both shorter term loans, and even Koeman wasn't impressed enough to have them back.

I think the choice of Bournemouth as a loan destination for Jack sounded a bit unusual, (to say the least) but with Eddie Howe being one of the favourite names to replace Wenger (when his contract goes out next summer) maybe it isn't so daft, and finding someone who can handle Jack could be a good test for him. I always felt that Jack was a bit of a loose cannon for Wenger, who didn't really know how to handle him, but if Jack has a good season, and stays out of the treatment room ......AND Bournemouth finish near top half, then Eddie will have the job on a plate when he goes to The Emirates and takes a new and revived Wilshere with him. On the other hand...I wonder how Eddie will react the next time he catches JW having a quick drag behind the toilets after training?

..think this is one game that BOTH managers really want to win for slightly different reasons. Claude Puel will want to win against HIS old manager, whilst Wenger (who celebrates 20 years with Arsenal this month) won't want to lose out to one of his own prodigies.

that wasn't a dream - it was a nightmare !

maybe not for the shot, but I noted the Slovakian keepers play-acting right at the end (attempt to waste time) gave just enough extra time that was needed to score...

exactly what are you referring to?

Agreed !..with his personality and the need to sneak off to the toilets for a quick cough-and-a drag before kick-off....yeah Good luck Bournemouth.

Those stats (on OP) are interesting to read, but are a terrible indictment of our shooting skills.

Agree 100%. I don't want him to see him go, but (like Lambert) I wouldn't deny him the opportunity of a top level move - if the chance ever arose.

I think the possibility of retrospective action is good...it's better than pretending it never happened ..despite the fact that millions of people saw it.. if not the ref. .....just a bit like saying someone didn't commit an offence......just because there wasn't a policeman there to witness it.

ER .... I wasn't comparing those mentioned with Ted Bates or anyone else, but the fact that I wrote about the four since the Liebherr takeover ..was surely a clue, or was it?

NOT signing more players, whilst continuing to promote the image of the Academy is going to be a difficult balancing act. A second look at the bench / U23 squad suggests that some players may get " game time " in matches that don't involve.... away games v. the traditional top 4 clubs. If all the " first-choicers " are fit .....the question won't arise, but it's hard to picture they can play twice-a-week, month-in and month-out whilst avoiding injury and holding their best form. We will have games in the U23's Cup competiton - (whatever it's called) plus both the League and FA Cups ....and the Prem. as well as the Europa League, although the fixture list in 2017 will depend a lot on... if and how far ... we may / or not progress in these competitions. Alex McCarthy and Stuart Taylor may find themselves between the posts more often, and the fast-improving Valery and McQueen may get outings at FB, as well as the versatile Jack Stephens. Harrison Reed might have had much more game time than he's had so far - if he'd been in a number of " other Prem. sides ". Jake Hesketh always looks impressive to me, and both Sims and Olomola might find themselves on the bench - if they continue to score for the U23's and I'm sure I'm not alone in anticipating the return of Ryan Seager to the U23 forward line. " Come the Day, Come the man" ....and we don't know who might be the next big " hero" from the squads who will establish themselves later this season.

Looking back, I asked myself Which managers got the best out of their teams....and which transfers deals would they want to forget? Prior to the Liebherr takeover, Kelvin Davis, Lallana and Schneiderlin were already "regulars " in the squad that was relegated from the Championship in 2009; that Alan Pardew inherited after summer 2009. It goes without saying the purchases of; Lambert, Hammond, Jaidi and Fonte gave us the backbone of a squad that saw us through 3 seasons and back up into the Prem. Amongst the loan deals were the young Michail Antonio, and Papa Waigo who DAJFU that season and the loan of David Connolly (cruelly shortened by his ongoing injuries) was worth it just to see his class performances - when he was fit enough to play. The first loan period of Puncheon had it's ups and downs, but after the dust settled in his relationship with Cortese, he proved to be a valuable asset. With hindsight the Saints career of Lee Barnard doesn't seem a success, but for one mid-season period, his partnership with Rickie Lambert was a joy to behold. Perhaps not the greatest success with the signings of; Harding, Seabourne and Otsemobor, although it didn't cost a fortune to have them available. We might have to wait a long time before Alan Pardew's autobiography tells the story behind his abrupt dismissal, but go he did and was quickly followed by ; Nigel Adkins. Nothing I say should detract from the excellent job that NA did in navigating us through two divisions in the following two seasons, but I'm sure he would admit that he had the benefit of an almost unchanged Pardew squad which was later supplemented by Fraser Richardson and we also saw the best of Guly's time with Saints. The buys / loans of; Dickson, Chaplow and Forte had their high points, but in the end were nothing to write home about. NA's second season saw us loaning Jack Cork, and signing Jos Hooiveld and Danny Fox. In hindsight they all had their detractors, but Jos' enthusiasm and contribution of 7 goals were vital to our promotion effort, as were the 20+ "assists" from Fox and Richardson for our in-form strikers. Although it soon became clear that Billy Sharp wasn't " Prem.material, his 5 month sojourn at the end of that season was vital to our eventual promotion, at a time when Rickie Lambert had an unsually poor spell in front of goal. The mention of Steve De Ridder and Tadanari Lee bring memories of a different sort. SDR just wasn't the right material - even for the Championship, but we will never know what "might have been" for Tadanari's career, had it not been for his long term injury problems. Adkins had barely half-a-season to make it "gell" in the Prem. and started the season with the purchases of; Clyne, Rodriguez, Steven Davis and Yoshida. Even though Yoshida rarely had a run of games to prove himself, but the others clearly proved their worth over and over in later years. On the downside, Birmingham's refusal to sell the young Jack Butland to Saints (we're rumoured to have bid £6 million) meant choosing Paolo Gazzaniga instead. Although he may have "looked the part", PG just never made it to Prem. standard, and we can only hope that 4 years later, his loan out might help his career. Only the timely loan of Artur Boruc kept us above the relegation zone that season. Mauricio Pochettino arrived and stepped up the tempo, in what was essentially Adkins' squad playing at a faster pace. The addition of Dejan Lovren, who looked good at first, *****il his head was turned to thoughts of Liverpool), but was perhaps " made to look better than he was" by through his partnership with still excellent Jose Fonte. Argeuably he did even better when having Wanyama in the side. The mention of Forran and Osvaldo will surely be avoided in any future Pochettino biography. A man of high ambition, Pochettino moved on and half that season's squad following suit to various points north. Ronald Koeman had the "advantage " that he could almost buy a new team, which was done well. Not sure who were Koeman's choices and who were from " Les Reed and the Black Box ", but none of the new purchases could be faulted for their contributions; Forster, Bertrand, Tadic, Pelle, Long, Mane and the (sadly only loaned) Alderweireld ....all produced excellent performances on a regular basis and all improved their international prospects into the bargain. Gardos played few games, was rarely in a losing side but spent a lot of time on the bench. The loan deals for Elia and Druricic were thankfully short-lived. The Koeman's second season brought in Romeu, Cedric and Clasie who for all their talent have yet to prove themselves. Martina was signed because of his history with the Koeman's, but few will ever forget his Goal of the Season v Arsenal. The outstanding buy of the season was undoubtedly Virgil van Dijk, and we can only hope that his long term contract is one that will keep him here for the duration. Stekelenburg's loan was important and HDAJFU when needed. The only down sides must be the failure of Juanmi to establish himself at Prem. level...... and the less said about the loan of Steven Caulker - the better. Ronald Koeman - a truly outstanding player in his own right, also showed he wasn't lacking ambition when his head was turned to Merseyside, and only time will tell if he will be worth his new millionaire's salary at Everton. So who did the best?. It has to be said that all four .....DAJFU, at the level they were at, during the time they were with Saints, and we progressed. Claude Puel...has a lot to do if he is to continue the progress that his predecessors had achieved. To better their achievements would be a real success. Inheriting a side that finished 6th in the Prem. may sound like a dream job for many......but maintaining that level against free-spending oppositions may be " a bridge too far ." Holding onto the 6th spot maybe "a big ask", but a good Cup run....or "winning something" in this era may prove to be Puel's greatest achievement. .

With Nicola Cortese holding the purse strings, it can be clearly seen that he preferred to go to " his friends in Italy" and loan the likes of Papa Waigo and Guly who (admittedly) DAJFU in L1, but whose subsequent careers cannot be compared to the progress that Antonio has made in his. Those loan fees (and subsequent purchase) of Guly must have far outweighed the amount that Antonio would have cost us, and I'm fairly sure that his advancement with SFC would have been swifter than it was with the other clubs who has been with since. I acknowledge that his financial expertise in setting the club to rights is to be admired, but as an admitted " football amateur ", he really should have looked to someone with more nous, in the Englsh footballing world before going ahead with the (later) disasterous purchases of Gaston and Osvaldo.

An excellent point that many overlook, Whitey. It's fairly obvious that with the prospect of having Wanyama and Pelle " walk away for nothing " next summer, we did well to re-coup around £24 million on their deals. What would have happened had we sold... Forster, van Dijk, Bertrand, Tadic or Long?...who would have been their replacements ...and how much would they have cost? As it was, giving existing players new/longer contracst has kept the bulk of the team intact for a second season, and a better foundation for an ever-changing squad.

Stuart Taylor for England:lol:.... perhaps he's waiting outside the dressing room .....waiting for Alex Mc Carthy ....to sneeze..

Alex in the England squad-----WOW !...even if he never has to put on the gloves, it's tripled his valution already !

it's probably a fair question, and perhaps not easy one to answer.....but here goes. I note that you lumped 2 seasons TV income into your initial figs. so if we take one year at a time, the most recent results show a total income of £114 million. of this just £18 million comes from filling SMS with 30,000 people every home game (not so much, eh?) Thankfully £84 mill. TV money is there to make it all run. The wage bill is approx. 70% of total income, (c £80 million) and there are undoubtedly other costs on top of that like travel ....(planes, buses, hotels etc). Transfer money looks a good profit if you compare sales v. buys, but (I'm sure I read somewhere) that Cortese borrowed money to fund the disasterous Gaston /Osvaldo deals which in fees + wages would have set us back about £50 million ...with nothing to show for after their departures. £84 million debt quoted may well include some of those deals (?) plus the ongoing development costs at Staplewood (often quoted as £30 million) ...with more to come. The highest paid "club official" (Ralph / Les ?) was paid c. £375,000 (per year) = £ 7000 /week (some of the U21 's must be above that )...so no-one's making a packet. Although we've had good Prem. seasons, no matter how well we do on the pitch, we'll never be able to compete with the top six (financially-speaking).

....for those who are doubting the figures, it's good to recall that although Saints had good stats in the immediate post WW2 seasons, when we actually averaged over 25,000 in 1948-49, the attendances fell to around 11,500 in 1955-56 ...after the relegation to Div 3 (in 1952-53). Performances improved after Ted Bates became manager and by the time we were promoted back up to Div.2 (1959-60) we had average gates of over 18,000. Our promotion to Div.1 (read Prem.) in 1965-66 saw gates of over 25,500, and despite several seasons when we struggled, we still maintained an average around 22,000. All through the period after winning the FA Cup, we still got average gates in excess of 21,000, although this had dropped to around 15,000 in the early 1980's. Sadly after several crowd disasters, All-seater stadia were demanded by the FA and The Dell was reduced from its former capacity (record gate 31,044) ....to a meagre 15,000, and that figure was quite stable for approx. 15 more years ....until St.Mary's was built. Of course, gates have been back up since, and even those relegations to Championship and L1 didn't deter the core fan base of 14-15,000. Since returning to the Prem. we have averaged over 30,000 every season, and although we now see that level of attendance nearly every home game ....in consideration of the overall history....in all probability - the figures quoted in the OP.....are fairly accurate.

you're not the only one with that opinion I'm sure. Especially Berahino who is...IMO ....vastly over-rated. However, such sites seem often to be designed by people who aren't in touch with the reality of transfers. IMO...just now ..£10 million wouldn't buy VvD's right boot. If he continues at the rate of last season, he may set a new transfer record (if he were to leave in near future). Those people who thought that Sadio Mané was an over-priced waste of space in his first season have been strangely silent since his transfer to L'pool. The fact we got the fees for Wanyama and Pellé (seems remarkable ) considering they were in their final seasons and could have walked away for £nothing next summer.

.......it's hard to judge the overall reaction on this board as there are quite a few widely-varying opinions on our current status. Some people seem decidely unimpressed when we buy a player for a relatively small fee, whereas high spending and "breaking the transfer record " is a sure sign that the player will be under intense scrutiny and condemned as a waste of money - if he doesn't show up as MoM every week. The incredible rise in the cost (I won't say value) of fairly ordinary players for tens of millions does nothing to convince us that paying a big fee is a guarantee of success. Like those "big shot" strikers who move from club to club in search of the success that they once knew .....but has since eluded them. Whilst the media " boasts " that Prem.clubs have spend over £1 billion in this window, it's can also be noted that more than half of that sum was spent by just 5 clubs, whilst the remainder try to pick up players from "the best of the rest" in a market that is decreasing in both skill and potential, whilst demanding ridiculous prices for them. With rare exception, most of the players who Saints have bought in recent years have been in the £8-£12 million range (with exception*of Mayuka, Forran and Juanmi). Mane have proven to have given a boost to the "transfer kitty ", and even the sales of Pelle and Wanyama were a good return on investment - considering we had good service from them for a couple of seasons. By now you will have noted that I have omitted the " maniacal deals " that brought * Gaston and Osvaldo to SMS at the behest of the former Chairman, whereas the Academy has proven its worth with the sales of; Walcott, Bale, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Shaw, Chambers and Lallana netting close to £100 million in sales. There's obviously no pleasing everyone, but there can be little real complaint about our club that has progressed from bottom of L1 to the top six of the Prem. and although there have been mistakes and errors of judgement along the way we can hope that as long as we continue to "breed " newcomers through the Academy, and do not have the werewithal to buy players for £40-£50 million a time, all in all .....we have little to genuinely complain about. Once again, we have changes in the squad and managerial personnel, but are used to that by now and there's no cause to condemn until we can analyse the season in May.

well said !

It'll be a good team that finishes in the top 10. Hopefully Saints are one of them. the top 4 ?...just the usual names.

so......?..is McCarthy really much better than anone thinks?...or is Sam really desperate? Er.. don't bother to answer that .

....it's at times like this that I'm glad that it isn't Gazzaniga sat waiting on the bench. hopefully Fraser will be fit for the Arsenal game, but at least we have two " possible stand-ins " who know what the Prem is about.