david in sweden

Right !

...perhaps only because he's not upto speed with his English football vocabulary. At least we don't have to put up with another " Pochettino-syle" interpreter. I've been trying to listen to Arsene Wenger for almost 20 years, and he still sounds just as dull .

Read me again Fred.. I said huge sums of money spent on Cortese's foreign purchases ....which enriched the coffers of his European pals. As far as I can trace the purchases of Mayuka, Ramirez and Osvaldo cost the club almost £28 million in transfer fees (let alone their salaries paid afterwards). I agree with the list of "good" buys that you listed above, but the rest of the squad cost considerably less than the money squandered on these three.

Looking at Under Armour's sponsored sports......this must be a long way down the list of actvities. Think maybe some misguided individual in the promotions dept. went a bit too far on this one. Killing a bear for food may have been a necessity for some people 100 years ago, but this is akin to sponsoring fox-hunting.

I'm not even sure that the Black Box was " up-and-running " at the time. Neither of the two mentioned would have met the criteria that we seem to have set up since. As memory serves....Ramirez took part in the 2012 Olympics (?)....and must have looked good, and so we bought him. Osvaldo was an acknowledged "loose cannon " who had played for Pochettino in the past and who he (somewhat stupidly) thought he could "tame". The most disturbing aspect of the signings in " the Cortese era," was that he authorised huge sums of money to the purchase of players through his Swiss / Italian contacts whilst only a pittance was allowed for the purchase of recognised English talent. Jay Rod was the only real exception.

..........now there's a man with ambition...

....if he scores the winner for Saints....... it might put a different complexion on the discussion.

It's the last 7 ......of my 57 years as a Saints fan that have given me the greatest satisfaction (aside from 1976 that is), so why is it the younger fans on this site are so hard to please and incredibly impatient? We live in a world where the quick fix is a basic requirement. Managers have (on average) 13 months to make it happen. Aside from his (soon to be celebrated) 20 years at Arsenal, only Arsene Wenger has stayed the course whilst Alan Pardew has survived a mere 3 or 4 seasons at Palace. At Saints, We march on. YES.. although it appears to be a slow march to some, but after the turmoil of 2009, perhaps we are more cautious than many others. Whilst the likes of the Manchester's and Chelsea's spend money like water (or should it be Oil ?)..we are more careful than most, remembering that the Gaston and Ramirez deals blew a huge hole in our salary budget with little reward to the club. We (hopefully) will be able to avoid that sort of mistake again. Players come and go ....and our managers too, but this time through their success ....and not their inability to coach a good side. On my recent visit to SMS, I bought a copy of Lawrie McMenemy's book and will settle down.... to read and recall .....all the ups and down's of Saints during his time, when we did win a Cup and.... almost won the League title. How can we brag about the Academy products, then claim they are not good enough for the Prem......and yet complain we lose them when they succeed? As long as the " big money clubs " can afford to spend tens of millions on players/salaries, we can never expect to match their buying power or wage levels, and for all their wealth we saw the likes of Liverpool, Chelsea, West Ham and Everton finishing below us last season, and only the most fervant statistician could predict where we might have ended up - if we hadn't had that dip in form last Winter. If patience is a virtue..then we must learn to cultivate it, and keep recalling that ..if Leicester can do it.....there's hope for others. Maybe not this season, but the big boys have proven that big money doesn't always buy big success, and the likes of Walcott, Bale, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Shaw, Lallana and Chambers made it through our Academy to the highest level - without costing us anywhere near the £100 million+ ....that we eventually sold them for. Surely more Academy lads will "graduate " and make it to the first team, and just as inevitably...some of them will move on. Cest la vie. Let's not complain too much.

Most of the players who left /did not stay came on bargain deals and we made a profit on the sale, but Mane and Pelle came from relative obscurity and did well. Their success and the step up with a higher salary scale is a natural progression in their career. Pelle hit the jackpot with his Chinese deal, and we didn't do badly for someone of his age bought for £9 million....with 1 year left on contract. Although we lost Mane, who can say that £34 million was a bad deal considering we paid £12 mill.? ..despite managerial changes....we just got better and better with every season. It's ridiculous to suggest that we can't ever improve more on that - even if it takes another season or two, but only time will tell..... ......however..... it will be fun to see if Pogba really is £80 million better than any of our players.

its not just down to formations....if 4-3-3 were the right answer....we'd have 12 teams tie-ing for the League title every season... Some managers ...(Strachan was such) had one formation that he wouldn't change....last season Koeman tried 3-5-2, and it didn't look bad in those few games .....but when Pelle and Mane got back to form Tadic came into his own. It's about using the skills of the players in the best way, and last season, there was a lot of criticism regarding the choice of Tadic's positioning when Mane was in form... Once again we have a new look squad and there is no Pelle or Mane (but there was no Pelle and Mane before them)..it was Lambert, Lallana and Jay Rod, you don't always replace like for like. Puel had likened Redmond to Thierry Henry (who apparantly) he converted to a striker from a midfielder)....No more comment needed there. Playing diamond formation may be Puel's no.1 plan, but not even diamonds are forever .(sorry couldn't resist that one), and he's experienced enough to change the start line-up depending on the opposition. Will be interesting to see ....who he uses ...where.... on Friday evening. Formations change....according to necessity and the players you have available. You'd have to be in my generation to understand why 2-3-5 was so exciting to watch. We need to see a run of games in order to judge how well /quickly the new formation will work.

a bit late with my comments but only got back last night after a longer holiday in So'ton, after watching the game with my son....and grandson. First time. Sitting in the Itchen stand, I was glad when we got the ball out of our own half and came up our end, and thought we looked really shambolic with the new formation. Thankfully the second half was a bit better, and we should have nailed down all 3 points with the number of opportunities we created late on ...against 10 men. Watford maintained their reputation for " hard physical play " with Shane Long coming in for "special treatment " (as usual). Both he and Redmond looked a real threat. Redmond will surely improve even more, but Puel must find an alternative for Austin / Jay Rod if they are to be used to their best potential. Overall not a good day to see outstanding football skills, and we might say it was.....two points lost, but then again it was only the first (sweaty) game of the season. Our first half dozen away games will show how good we might become as (last season) we dropped home points in games - even when we had more % possession. An eventual "regular " start eleven might include Bertrand and Fonte (?)..and the RB spot will be "up for grabs" to the best candidate (as long as it's not Yoshida).

much of this thread has seemingly developed into a Gallagher-Kane comparison . It could be noted that after being rejected by Arsenal (!) as a 9 year old, Kane had time at Watford....before finding his way to Spurs at aged 15. Spurs coach Alex Ingelthorpe noted "....he (HK) looked a bit gangly, moved slightly awkwardly, and was a bit cumbersome." HK was loaned out to Leyton Orient, Millwall, Norwich and Leicester in successive seasons and clocked up 56 apps. and scored 14 goals before returning to Spurs. He'd had a handful of first team appearances before Pochettino took over, and started him regularly ...the rest, as they say.....was bad news for the rest of the Prem. Sam Gallagher wasn't ready for Prem football when Pochettino debuted him, but a quick look back will show that we had a major injury/ form crisis with Saints' strikers at the time and MP had no other option. Sam's first goal was scored in the 94th minute of a game we had already won, and he scored once more in another game. It is totally unfair to criticise a young player who'd had both personal and injury problems and start talking about suitability for the Prem. Sam needs a season at Blackburn (or similar level club) and unless he knotches up double figures, perhaps even another season loan before we can expect him to DAJFU in the Prem. I just want to see him get plenty of game time and start scoring the odd goal or two. The rest will take time. Longer memories may recall the signing of the young James Beattie who managed a rather uneven start to his Saints career, and was out for much of his second season ....and was well into his fourth, before we saw the class of player he eventually developed into and got himself into the England Squad.

I'm a bit more than realistic in saying that finishing lower than 5th would be a bad season ! As if we're not used to it by now .....another new manager, top players leaving, new players arriving ....a new attacking formation, the mystical " gelling " process might take some time to come to fruition, so for my part.....anything higher than 10th would be fine....and a good Cup run in one of the competitions would be a bonus.

.....doesn't he train horses to do that too...?

seems to me we are (almost) talking about ...the "new 4-4-2 " system again.

Ah well..it was all down to nutrition. Remember we are talking about players who were born during World War 2, when there wasn't always a lot of food on the tables. Those of us who recall the stories of George Kirby (another 6 footer) terrorising Notts. Forest's goalie Peter Grummit, recall that Grummit was around 5'9" (I think). Saints goalie Tony Godfrey was (at one time) reckoned to be one of the shortest goalies in the League at 5' 8". Times change and so too - diets. Today's players who are less than 6 foot are sometimes looked upon negatively, whereas it's not always the best measure of success. There are quite a few good strikers/midfielders around who don't measure up to the " mystical " 6 foot mark.

I think Ted Bates saw his potential, but Ron didn't have any real wing service at Norwich, and I remember thinking that he didn't have such a great scoring record there, but his heading ability came good when he got a stream of accurate crosses from Paine and Sydenham. Paine especially could practically hit his forehead with a centre. A lot of people talked about his fantastic heading ability, but it wasn't always " power-headers ". He seemed to "hang in the air " when he timed his jumps and could "place the ball " almost anywhere with a superb accuracy of heading /direction ......but far post headers were his real masterpiece. Occasionally people seemed amazed when he scored with his feet....but stats. showed he scored just as many with ground shots as with those magificent headers.

from what I've seen of Jason McCarthy from U21 games, he looks a good prospect, but (as mentioned above).... he's quite away down the pecking order. However, looking at those names above ...how many do you think might still be with Saints, in say ....2-3 years time? By then .....Jason could have 60-90 games and might come back as another squad member. The main problem with this discussion is.... that in the wake of the Walcott, Bale, Ox and Shaw careers, a lot of people are beginning to think that if players don't make it by the time they're .....say 21/22.... then they're not upto it. The truth is that the above named all found early success at a time when Saints were still playing Championship level......and now that we are in the Prem.top six - it's even harder for youngsters to get a look-in .....ahead of a benchful of internationals...... without some previous experience. Interesting that when Pochettino brought in Harry Kane and Ryan Mason to the Spurs squad ....they had both had extensive loan-outs (since teenage) and Kane had been with four clubs. Mason had been out to six clubs and played nearly 100 League games.

I'd claim birthright as the no.1 reason. I was born in So'ton and it was a very long time ago. Residence can be down to family moves / job moves etc. It's nice that people in other parts of the country / The World/ want to support us. I met a guy from the USA a year or so ago, and he was a very keen knowledgeable type. The worst types are those who pick a top club..because they are a success, and for no other reason than they like to brag. I know a couple of Swedish guys who are " MU fans " and they are going to be unbearable as the season goes on ....only because Zlatan has joined MU.

I also remember Allan Clarke (was one of 4 brothers who all played League football) but I think the British record fee was still the £125,000 deal when Martin Chivers went to Spurs in January 1968......another case of us being ripped off by Spurs. Having settled the fee, Saints then agreed to take Frank Saul in part-ex valued at £45,000 (!) Saul had been a Cup Final goalscorer for Spurs, but not one of the first team regulars and was immensely overvalued in the deal. His style wasn't suited to League football. His contribution to Saints was far more sweat than goals. He played 60+ games netting just just 12 goals......10 of those in Cup games. He was no match for the fast improving Mick Channon, and moved back to London just 2 years later....and Saints got little value for money from that deal.

I noted that ..no Wayman and No Ron ! .....perhaps our media staff aren't fully acquainted with the club's history?

....that Saints signed the Norwich striker Ron Davies for a (then) club record fee of £55,000 and (just as Matt Le Tissier would 30 years later).. almost single-handedly kept Saints afloat in the top flight for half-a-dozen seasons with masses of goals. (Career total 153 in 277 games). One Saints player (anonymous) said...£50,000? ...Can anyone be worth that much? Whilst Saints fans were asking themselves the same question, the answer came quickly as Ron scored in his third League match...and then proceeded to equal a League record by scoring in 10 successive games. It was easier to say ..when didn't he score?...as he netted a total of 37 League goals ..in 26 of that season's 42 matches)...and a few more in Cup games. His first hat-trick came in January 1967, when he scored three times in an amazing 4-4 game at the Dell v. Leicester. He scored 3 again v Burnley in April and well and truly relegated Aston Villa in the last game of the season, when Saints slaughtered them 6-2 at The Dell....with Ron scoring 4 times, as well as having one goal disallowed and hitting the woodwork. By now, he had scored 50% ....of the 74 Saints' League goals that season. Even that was just enough to help Saints avoid relegation and finish 19th in the 22 team League (as was) with a leaky defence that had conceded 92 times ! His scoring talent continued when he scored 9 times in the first 5 games the following season including 4 goals when Saints beat Chelsea 6-2 at Stamford Bridge, and managed 28 League goals in his second season. By now he had struck up a good scoring partnership with Martin Chivers, (who later moved onto Spurs,) but was later abley replaced by the young Mick Channon. As expected, by this time Ron had " been found out " and came in for some brutal treatment from a series of " no nonsense defenders " in some other clubs, who made no bones about " stopping him " before he got anywhere near goal. Despite this Ron managed 20 League goals in his third season, but fans of that era will never forget his finest match, when in August 1969 Saints went to Old Trafford and beat Man Utd's best team ..(Best, Charlton and Law included) by 4-1 .....with Ron getting all four, in what was called winger John's Sydenham's finest match, when JS supplied Ron with a series of inch perfect crosses. After that game United's manager Matt Busby called Ron "the finest centre forward in Europe", and (supposedly) bid a huge sum for Ron....which Saints refused. Despite injury Ron soldiered on ....and still managed 17 goals in season 1970-71, and 11 more in 1971-72. He managed just 9 goals in 24 starts in 1972-73, but the spark had long gone, and subsequent moves to Portsmouth, and finally Man.Utd saw no improvement. The secret of his success was due in no small measure to Saints' two wingers Terry Paine and John Sydenham who gave him excellent service in every game. Ron's amazing ability to head a ball became a national talking point, a skill he developed as a youngster at Chester, when the club manager made him train ..... ....in heavy Army boots. By the time, he got to play games in lighter weight football boots, he could easily jump head and shoulders above most defenders. Those who only talk about his remarkable heading ability, fail to remember that he also had two good feet, and could score well with either foot, and well as putting away a few skilfully-placed penalties. Every generation has its own legends and it does no good to try and " compare them " to each other. Just as Charlie Wayman before him.... and the Channon and Le Tissier sagas would unfold in later years....Ron Davies still has a permanent place in Saints' history, and for " we oldies " .... firmly in our memories.

ironically .....my own stats. showed that we won more games when we had negative % possession, than those we lost with a + %. of our 11 defeats ..we had majority % possession in 9 of them....yet still lost. of the 18 wins ...12 were in games where we had negative % possession, yet still got the win. STATS: in the 4-0 win over Arsenal at SMS...we had just 35 % possession to Arsenal's 65% (suck on that one Arsene ) we won 2-1 at White Hart Lane yet had 29% possession to their 71%. (most satisfying result of the season from my point of view.)

Hojbjerg has 17 senior caps for Denmark already....might that disqualify him from the squad ? or perhaps ?....Saints said ......you're our player now and we don't want you crocked before the season starts. Recalling that Jack Cork was injured in/around the 2012 Olympics and took a long time to get back to full fitness.

well that issue is settled then THX.