Sergei Gotsmanov

When we used to do it you used your little finger on a glass.

As an aside my Great Grandfather was a vicar and lost his faith when he lost my great Aunt. He got quite involved with spiritualism and was involved with Arthur Conan Doyle. This was certainly not finacially driven. As for the Ouiija boards I would agree it could be in your subconscious but why then do you need more than two people to operate it. I am not sure you are qualified to argue about it if you have never done it.

If you took the time to read my posts, I was pointing out that Frank was refering constantly to science to base his suggestion that God did not exist. I was pointing out that you cannot discount the spiritual side of religion just because it cannot be measured it is obviously a factor. To use an extreme why do you not look up the Toronto blessing.

You miss the point Frank. Science cannot disprove Ouija boards but something definately happens when you do one.

Well its better than you have produced.

On a clear night Frank, look up into the sky and tell me that we know what the hell is out there.

Its not fifteen to one Frank. If you ever do a Ouija board you will see that it undoubtedly works and as far as I can see there is no evidence as to why it works. I used to find the process rather spooky.

I found this. It would suggest you are wrong. http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2058815

That is not what I was lead to believe do you have a source?

You clearly are applying the extreme to the mainstream in your argument. Children can think for themselves and do think for themselves, that is because we live in a free society where knowledge is all around you - in your youth did you ever have the good fortune to meet a convent girl? Those that ban the cross at work and want the State to somehow intervene are the real threat to freedom.

I am afraid Hypo it is another classic case of people not believing that people are capable are thinking for themselves. They have this totally misguided belive that in family homes all around the country thousands of children are locked in bedrooms with bread, water and a copy of the bible.

What are you proposing, to confiscate bibles and Korans from family homes. You really don't believe that in our free society people cannot make up their own minds? It seems to me that you do not believe in basic freedoms.

Niceandfriendly it is about respect. What are your thoughts on the Thai Royal family?

Totally mad I am sure but why do the COE schools outperform other schools and why is it so difficult to get your children into them?

Of course religion changes because it is based on how people interpret the teachings and that changes. It is why you end up with those that have a radical interpretation of the teachings. The trouble with your view on the teaching of Christianity is that you assume that in our society people are unable to make up their own minds; we live in a free society where information is everywhere. You are exposing your inner prejudices; who cares what they are called? They are called Christian values because it was Christians that first promoted and marketed them. If you are that keen on understanding faith may I suggest that a football forum is not the most appropriate medium.

Scotty I am not talking about the merits of the instituitions, faith is generally quite a personal thing. I have limited respect for the Church as a whole just a lot of the individuals in it.

You say that Scientific beliefs do not evolve and thenm explain the process by which they do. I probably worded that poorly but I find it creepy when people want to undermine what is being taught in the homes at school at an early age. It is normally ideologically driven. Children can make up their own minds when they are older. You are insulted very easily. They are termed Christian values because they are based on the teachings of Jesus - it is historical.

You enter a whole new debate about the role of the State and its involvement in how people bring up their children. I want my children to be taught Christian values and then when they are 14 they can take it and get confirmed or leave it and not. I find it rather creepy when people think they should be teaching my children something else. Science goes some way to explaining the world around us but falls well short of explaining everything. Scientific believes also change.

I respect the values of the major religions and would love to have a strong faith. I struggle with the Ark and other parts of the Old Testament though and that dilutes the strength of my belief. I do think that life is such a miracle in itself that science cannot possibly proviode answers to everything; particularly the emotional and spiritual elements. What really irks me is when people who have no faith try to ridicule those that do.

If you do not believe in god then you believe in science.

I think I am in your camp. Successful promoted sides that spend stupid money struggle and then get relegated.

Cheers for that.