sadoldgit

I did not say it would be "better" if they showed the soldiers who climbed out of the trenches on Christmas Day being shot, I said it would be more honest. The criticisms of the ad that I have read are about the way it has sanitised the event. The coverage of the Great War in this centinary year has been remarkable and the poppy display at the Tower amazing in its simplicity and emotional impact. I am not morally outraged by this ad but a number of people have been I do think it is a shame that the year ends with this controversy. We are all entitled to feel the way we do about the ad. From the first time I saw it I thought it was well made but distasteful and I still feel the same way.

It makes it okay because it says forget all of the horrors of the Great War, we can feel safe in our nice warm homes because human beings are basically good and in the right circumstances will do something humane and kind (with a bit of help from Sainsburys)under certain conditions. In fact those two soldiers were trying to kill each other the day before and continued to do so the day after. As I said earlier, many soldiers were shot when they climbed out of the trenches and tried to fraternise with the "enemy" but we didn't see that because the situation had been sanitised for our Christmas consumption. It is selling a lie by compressing a nightmare that lasted 4 years into something decent that lasted a few hours..

I see today a report saying that many many rapes are not followed through by police as they do not either believe the victim or have enough evidence for a prosecution.

He does seem to be portraying himself as the victim in all of this and his website doesn't help his cause in my eyes. It makes no difference what this girl may or may not have done in the past and blackening her name does him no favours. It is all about what happened on the night and for that he has been found guilty of raping her. He has also had one appeal turned down. I can see why he doesn't feel like he can show remorse but a simple, I regret what happened that night but I still maintain that I did not rape this girl would be a start.

Whatever we think of the ad, it has worked in that it has become a hot topic of conversation. Apparently Sainsburys are shifting 5000 chocolate bars an hour with 50p each going to the British Legion. Also, although it is almost a straight rip off of the Pipes of Peace video by Paul McCartney a few years back there were many people who weren't aware of the Christmas Day ceasefire so it is good that it has raised that moment of humanity in a very inhumane war. However I thought that the Dolan piece was worth using as it says it all for me.

The World War One Centenary is a time to reflect one of the biggest wastes of human lives in the 20th Century. Why it happened, the lives it destroyed and how future wars can be averted are important lessons for our age. The ceramic poppies at the tower of London - 888,246 of them, each representing an extinguished human life - formed the centre of many moving tributes across the country. It is important that we remember, but also how we remember it. The Sainsbury's Christmas advert not only flagrantly exploited the public mood to hock Christmas tat it commits a far bigger crime - it tries to make war picturesque. War is an ugly business - over 6.5 million civilians died of disease and famine alone and a further 1 million were killed by 'direct military actions' in WW1. Combine that with military deaths through violence, malnutrition, disease and mental health issues and you have a total war dead equivalent to four times the population of Ireland. But of course this is not how Sainsbury's chooses to remember WW1 - because dead babies don't sell chocolate bars. We can, unfortunately, expect to see more of this advertising. The partnership between the Royal British Legion and Sainsbury's is indicative of a country that is quite happy to fight wars but tends to shrug it shoulders when it is asked to pay for them. We find ourselves dependent on charitable giving to support veterans that the government can't or won't pay for. Organisations, like the Royal British Legion, will therefore sell themselves to the highest bidder to fill the gap. The bizarre outcome is Sainsbury's giving us the perverse Christmas message that chocolate makes war OK. The simple truth is people who go through the necessary conditioning to be able to participate in the legalised murder of people they don't know, in countries they've never been to, for reasons they don't understand, are going to come back damaged. Inevitably this has an impact - around 9,000 ex-servicemen are living on the streets largely because of mental health issues that are a direct consequence of military service. Veterans of warfare almost always need greater state resources to come to terms with the psychological impact of working in warzones - the government to its credit has given some recognition to this. The military covenant, now enshrined in law set out a new deal that armed services personnel can expect in terms of support from the British government in return for their service. The devil, however, is in the numbers - all sustainable funding for the Covenant annually is set to be around £10 million or 1/10th of what the Royal British Legion spends each year or 1/3500th of the MoD the annual spend. Way back in Christmas in 2011 I had a habit of popping by the Occupy London Stock Exchange protest on my transits through central London. During this time I made friends with a convicted thief, a recovering addict and a recent divorcee who were, like me, avid chess players at the "Tea and Empathy" tent. Divided in age and circumstance but united by the ugliest of human experiences - deprivation and homelessness. Another thing united them - they were all previously armed services personnel. All their stories of largely self-inflicted misery certainly won't light up the sympathy circuits of everyone but they were all, in a very Christian tradition, penitent figures. These are the people that are left behind by a government that would rather charities pick up the bill for the wars they start. Whilst Help for Heroes, Royal British Legion and Combat Stress do vital work, that work should be paid for by the state that is responsible for putting service personnel in harm's way in the first place. Until then we are likely to see more corporate flogging of military history for their own profit. The Sainsbury's advert has been described as a 'masterpiece' and 'heart-warming' - but I fail to see that the exploitative manipulation of one of the darkest chapters in human history to peddle inflatable lawn ornaments as anything less than tacky, callous and probably evil. Merry Christmas everyone. Follow Shaughan Dolan on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/Dolansphere

Thanks for that Trousers. So Sainsburys "raise" money for the BL. So they could continue to raise money but could have also given the cost of the ad to the BL as well. AS has been said before, are people going to go to Sainsburys and not Tescos now just because of this ad? We tend to go to our local supermarket don't we? I prefer Sainsburys to Tescos but Tescos is closer so that is where I do most of my shopping. At Christmas every supermarket I have ever been in is rammed full of customers. Instead of going to so much trouble a short ad saying get your Xmas goodies at Sainsburys and we are giving money to the BL would have worked just as well and the BL would have been even more quids in. I love the John Lewis ad by the way but hate the way that it is played constantly when you are in the store. Talk about overkill. I was sick of the music and the ad well before Christmas last year and I'm sure I'll feel the same this year.

I remember thinking after Live Aid how much more money they could have raised at the time if they sold videos (no DVDs at the time) of the event but Geldof said that he wanted it to be like a shooting star (or something) that was there and then gone. So much for being about just raising as much money as possible and saving lives. The first Band Aid effort meant a lot because it was spontaneous and in some ways wonderfully naïve. A group of pop stars feeding the world. Now it is as tired and hackneyed as Bob Geldof who seems to think his time is more important than paying taxes. Sir Bob has been a very lucky boy. His pop career was already virtually over when he came up with Band Aid and that has kept him going ever since - shame he hasn't learned to be any less obnoxious since. Give us your effing money worked in the 80s, now I just want to say give them YOUR effing money now matey! His treatment of Adele is appalling by the way.

I don't know how much money Sainsburys are donating to the British Legion (is it just the proceeds from the chocolate bars?) but suspect that the ad was very expensive. Couldn't they have just given that money to the BL?

And probably no let up on Christmas Day for the poor little critters!!!

Coming from you Mr Fry I take that as a huge compliment!

Yep you are right. While we are about it, why not an ad for British Gas shot from Auschwitz? Personally I don't think that war should be used to sell goods at Christmas but I guess I am just an old fashioned dude.

So "Christmas is for sharing." On Christmas Day the soldiers shared a football match and a chocolate bar. The day after they shared bayonets, bullets, grenades and shells and spilt their guts over the football pitch. Nice.

Having now seen the advert frankly I can see why. I lost both grandfathers as a result of a war that was an all time low, even for the human race. I find it distasteful that it is being used to sell Sainsburys to us over Christmas. Nothing like a good war to get us in the Christmas spirit! Apparently some of the soldiers who stood up on the parapets on Christmas Day were shot but it would have spoiled the ad a tad if they had shown the truth I suppose.

I agree that it is an imperfect world. I also think we have a pretty robust justice system which although not perfect (none of them are) is good. As I have said before, the complainant has had to convince the police, the CPS and the jury of her case. Any appeal will consider the case just as the police, the CPS and the jury already have. If the decision is found to be safe will you finally accept that "Ched" is guilty of rape?

So are you saying that we must treat everyone who is found guilty as possibly innocent. If people are innocent there are appeal systems. If a guilty verdict is not proof of guilt why have a system like ours anyway because according to your argument, if they keep saying they are innocent then we cant accept they are guilty.

I agree 100% with this and that is the problem we face because many others would think the same way as Evans. Despite it being 2014 there still seems a perception in some quarters that women are fair game if they are incapacitated by drink/drugs.

Maybe. It was the way you put it.

What is your point? Just because this time it is Man City and not Tottenham it has more clout? What about the other dozens of transfer rumours? All going to happen? Have they made a bid? If not, worry about if and when they do.

Rooney has made the point himself, to be a "great" you have to produce the goods. That is you have to win a major trophy.

No.

Technically it is.

They got drunk. Just how drunk was she?

Rape is rape but there are degrees of sentencing that should reflect the severity of the rape. Consent is key. No consent, leave well alone no matter what has gone on before. We have had a successful rape prosecution involving a prostitute. Things are changing gradually but as this thread shows, there are still people who think that it is okay to f*ck someone even if they are not in control.

Not at all sure what the Great War has to do with a supermarket? Nevertheless, good piece in the Guardian a few days ago saying although the ad is beautifully shot and produced, it was sanitised. No blood, guts or sh*t all over the place and thus was "selling" a lie. Personally I think any mention of Christmas should be banned until December.