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Thread: Coronavirus Discussion Thread

  1. #901

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    Quote Originally Posted by stknowle View Post
    Good luck with it all, seriously. I run a business with 1 employee (me) I'd hate to have to deal with all that on top of all the personal worry we're all suffering as well.
    And we have people who still have to work. Asking people to risk their health and potentially their lives every day is weighing very heavily on me. I do have to say though that everyone has been so understanding and kind.

  2. #902

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Le God View Post
    Who are 'they'?
    Dont worry MLG, you're not at risk, no one would go within a mile of you.

  3. #903

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    Quote Originally Posted by davefoggy View Post
    They are already starting to say today that the numbers have probably been over estimated. Meanwhile, the economy is wrecked and will take years to recover
    No credible source has said anything of the sort.

    Some people aren't understanding what the lockdown is for. It's delaying things and trying to give the health service a chance. This is the very beginning. Lockdowns will be relaxed or lifted and the virus will spread more. Same in other countries. If health services get overwhelmed death rates will soar.

    If complacency and misinformation you're showing are prevalence, death rates will soar.

    The numbers who have it are massively underreported as there's next to no tests. It can day weeks for people to get ill, to get seriously ill and die from it.

    I hope it doesn't end up as bad as it seems. But if it doesn't it'll be because of extreme measures being taken quickly. They'll seem over the top if you're taken them in time rather than being reactionary as we've done. And if measures taken work and death rate is massively reduced, you'll have a lot of people concluding we can't have needed to take those measures because the the death rate was low. It's the paradox of preparation.

    It's ironic that so many of the people lapping up fear stories from the Sun/Mail etc for years when they didn't need to now seem to be a large portion of the people saying ah it's just flu nothing to worry about save the economy. And by ironic obviously I mean infuriating, depressing and a reflection of how things got so ****.

  4. #904

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    No one is saying the numbers have been overestimated. One potentially credible person has said that our current measures may keep deaths lower than 20,000. That's not the same thing.

  5. #905

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    Quote Originally Posted by stknowle View Post
    Not sure they even knew when they announced it/know now but I was under the impression that they get 80% from Gov't then up to employer to top up or not. Taking a 20% hit seems a more than reasonable alternative to losing your job altogether.
    I have just been on a webinar with Sage that answered a lot of questions.

    You pay the employees in the normal fashion and submit PAYE information. The government will reimburse 80% of the total employee costs including NI and auto-enrolment pension payments later, by the end of April is their intention.

    "The 80% (£2500 ca) of wages to claim from the government is inclusive of ALL payroll costs. These would include Employers NIC and any Auto enrolment pension payments."

    "The latest guidance we have on this is to process the payment you're making to your furloughed employees through payroll, whether that's 80% or 100%. You may wish to separate furloughed pay to any top-up pay (over and above 80% of the cost of their wages). This will make it easier to report on the information you'll need when the online portal is launched."

    You still need to make VAT returns as normal but don't need to pay until the end of the tax year i.e. April 2021. This applies to VAT quarters that end between 20-Mar-2020 until the end of June. If you pay by Direct Debit then you should cancel this with your bank to prevent automatic payments. This is if you will have difficulties in paying.

    Sage will produce a fact sheet later with FAQs. I shall look out for it and post a link when it is available.

    Good luck everybody!

  6. #906

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    Professor Neil Ferguson for one.
    He said the 500k UK deaths figure if we did nothing is wrong? Do you have a link to that?

  7. #907

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Le God View Post
    He said the 500k UK deaths figure if we did nothing is wrong? Do you have a link to that?
    That is a back of an envelope calculation based on an overall infection rate of 80% and a Case Fatality Rate of 1% in a population of 67 million or so.

  8. #908

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    Reading that all leagues from the National League and down have been cancelled and all results expunged.

    The same has happened in Women's football from Tier 3. A shame for Saints Women's Team as they were battering everyone that came their way and were set to win their league by a Liverpool-esque margin, hopefully they can roll on again next season.

  9. #909

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shandy_Top_89 View Post
    Reading that all leagues from the National League and down have been cancelled and all results expunged.

    The same has happened in Women's football from Tier 3. A shame for Saints Women's Team as they were battering everyone that came their way and were set to win their league by a Liverpool-esque margin, hopefully they can roll on again next season.
    I should correct that to say both Womens teams from Southampton!

  10. #910

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Le God View Post
    He said the 500k UK deaths figure if we did nothing is wrong? Do you have a link to that?
    "they are starting to say today that the numbers have probably been overestimated." Where is there any mention of 500k UK deaths figure if we did nothing?

  11. #911

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    Where is there any mention of 500k UK deaths figure if we did nothing?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51979654


  12. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Le God View Post
    Who are 'they'?
    Expert on Radio 2 this morning, I won't attempt to spell his name, but sounded very credible. Worth a listen https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000gn1w

  13. #913

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Le God View Post
    No I was talking about the original post which said that numbers were overestimated.

  14. #914

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    Quote Originally Posted by davefoggy View Post
    They are already starting to say today that the numbers have probably been over estimated. Meanwhile, the economy is wrecked and will take years to recover
    Quote Originally Posted by davefoggy View Post
    Expert on Radio 2 this morning, I won't attempt to spell his name, but sounded very credible. Worth a listen https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000gn1w
    Just listened to it. Yes, quite interesting but didn't say what your quote suggested. The contributors didn't make any judgement call about the earlier studies and neither of them said "the numbers had been over-estimated".

    And the main thrust of the conversation was that the measures being taken by the government is the thing that will reduce infection and deaths. Interesting you didn't take that from the section, just wanting to make some shi tty points about wrecking the economy which wasn't discussed.

    So I think the "they" are the voices in your head mate.
    Last edited by CB Fry; 26-03-2020 at 06:01 PM.

  15. #915

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    Even now when things are really being pushed to the limit we have those usual idiots trying to score points.

    We have never had a fight of this type before and are learning as we go how to react to the dangers.

    We should all be working together as one to fight against this pandemic virus.

    I am not happy being stuck indoors when in desperate need for a hip transplant which will be put on hold for years the way things are going and sometimes the pain is unbearable but I will do whatever to stay alive. At 73 with a 16yo son and 14yo daughter maybe I have a special reason to fight.

    All I hear are people saying the government is reacting too slowly, and not putting enough money aside for this battle. All I know is that our country has done more than most and we will all have to tighten our belts once this is finally put to bed.

  16. #916

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    And here, for absolute clarity, is Prof Neil Ferguson telling everyone that their latest work is showing the disease is slightly more transmissable than previously thought; that the revised death rate is in response to the measures taken by the government; and that they still consider that 500k is the potential scale of death in a "do nothing" scenario.



    https://twitter.com/neil_ferguson/st...200124928?s=09
    Last edited by CB Fry; 27-03-2020 at 06:46 AM.

  17. #917

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    Quote Originally Posted by SFC Forever View Post
    Even now when things are really being pushed to the limit we have those usual idiots trying to score points.

    We have never had a fight of this type before and are learning as we go how to react to the dangers.

    We should all be working together as one to fight against this pandemic virus.

    I am not happy being stuck indoors when in desperate need for a hip transplant which will be put on hold for years the way things are going and sometimes the pain is unbearable but I will do whatever to stay alive. At 73 with a 16yo son and 14yo daughter maybe I have a special reason to fight.

    All I hear are people saying the government is reacting too slowly, and not putting enough money aside for this battle. All I know is that our country has done more than most and we will all have to tighten our belts once this is finally put to bed.
    You had a kid when you were 59?

  18. #918

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    Professor Neil Ferguson for one.
    Really? Last night he said this...

    neil_ferguson


    @neil_ferguson



    ·
    10h









    4/4 - Without those controls, our assessment remains that the UK would see the scale of deaths reported in our study (namely, up to approximately 500 thousand).


  19. #919

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Le God View Post
    Really? Last night he said this...

    neil_ferguson


    @neil_ferguson



    ·
    10h









    4/4 - Without those controls, our assessment remains that the UK would see the scale of deaths reported in our study (namely, up to approximately 500 thousand).

    I was replying to your question about who davefoggy meant by "they". Asked and answered. I guess you missed my earlier post:

    "No one is saying the numbers have been overestimated. One potentially credible person has said that our current measures may keep deaths lower than 20,000. That's not the same thing."
    Last edited by hypochondriac; 27-03-2020 at 08:23 AM.

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    So can PL football clubs furlough their players and get the government to foot 80% of the wage bill? Not that I have any idea if footballers count as Paye type employees or something else.

    Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by doddisalegend View Post
    So can PL football clubs furlough their players and get the government to foot 80% of the wage bill? Not that I have any idea if footballers count as Paye type employees or something else.

    Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk
    the maximum £2,500 wouldn't cover too much of the average £61k premier league wage. to be blunt if clubs even tried it it'd be a disgrace. For their non football staff then more understandable, surely they should follow Leeds example first though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turkish View Post
    the maximum £2,500 wouldn't cover too much of the average £61k premier league wage. to be blunt if clubs even tried it it'd be a disgrace. For their non football staff then more understandable, surely they should follow Leeds example first though.
    One thing is for sure, we don't need another RB at the moment.

  24. #924

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turkish View Post
    the maximum £2,500 wouldn't cover too much of the average £61k premier league wage. to be blunt if clubs even tried it it'd be a disgrace. For their non football staff then more understandable, surely they should follow Leeds example first though.
    It would be kind of amusing watching your average PL footballer try to cope on £2500.

    I see in rugby the premiership wants a, across the board, 25% pay cut and some players are already threatening legal action mind you I have no idea what your top level rugby player earns but I'm assuming it isn't terrible money.

    I wonder how footballers will react if something similar is tried in the PL?

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  25. Default

    Anyone on here actually on the Furlough scheme?

    We’re having to take A/L, Lieu time or unpaid leave at the moment as the big bosses claim the 80% scheme is more complicated than it looks.

    Maybe it’s because it’s a European company, or maybe because some people can work at home. There’s also a rumour that as furlough is the alternative to redundancy, they’re worried that people who actually want redundancy are legally entitled to take it, costing the company money they can ill afford.

    It’s caused quite a bit of bad feeling, but they’ve asked us to bare with them for 2 weeks whilst they look into it. I’m not too bad because I do loads of extra hours for **** all so will make up AL taken with lieu, but some of my guys cant.


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  26. #926

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    Quote Originally Posted by trousers View Post
    Cheers WG

    Hmm... that was my fear.... seems a tad unfair for employees who had to be laid off before the scheme was announced who would otherwise have been furloughed had the scheme existed. That said, AFAIK, the cafe owner has only 'informally' laid off the employees so they may not have informed HMRC yet and therefore not techincally off the payroll yet. Who knows. Let's see how it pans out.
    Hi Trousers,

    I have just had an update from HMRC and your daughter can be taken back on the payroll and then furloughed provided she was on the payroll on the 28th February.

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-fo...tention-scheme

  27. #927

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    Can you furlough yourself? I'm a company director and I wasn't sure.
    Yes you can but the company must have at least one active director. Whilst furloughed any employee cannot do any work for the company, but they can work for another company that has not furloughed anybody.

  28. #928

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
    Anyone on here actually on the Furlough scheme?

    We’re having to take A/L, Lieu time or unpaid leave at the moment as the big bosses claim the 80% scheme is more complicated than it looks.

    Maybe it’s because it’s a European company, or maybe because some people can work at home. There’s also a rumour that as furlough is the alternative to redundancy, they’re worried that people who actually want redundancy are legally entitled to take it, costing the company money they can ill afford.

    It’s caused quite a bit of bad feeling, but they’ve asked us to bare with them for 2 weeks whilst they look into it. I’m not too bad because I do loads of extra hours for **** all so will make up AL taken with lieu, but some of my guys cant.


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    Tbf it's going to be impossible for all people to take annual leave once we are up and running again.

  29. #929

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
    Anyone on here actually on the Furlough scheme?

    We’re having to take A/L, Lieu time or unpaid leave at the moment as the big bosses claim the 80% scheme is more complicated than it looks.

    Maybe it’s because it’s a European company, or maybe because some people can work at home. There’s also a rumour that as furlough is the alternative to redundancy, they’re worried that people who actually want redundancy are legally entitled to take it, costing the company money they can ill afford.

    It’s caused quite a bit of bad feeling, but they’ve asked us to bare with them for 2 weeks whilst they look into it. I’m not too bad because I do loads of extra hours for **** all so will make up AL taken with lieu, but some of my guys cant.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    i work for Travis Perkins (Benchmarx) and am now on the Furlough scheme as of this morning.

    All seems to be pretty straightforward so far, we’re getting the 80% from the government and TP are making up the other 20% for the first 4 weeks - if it continues past that we get the 80% from the government and the company are paying 10%.

    They’re taking 5 days annual leave in the first period and we can take a further 5 if we want should the second 4 weeks come into play. They don’t want everyone to return to work with a whole years annual leave allocation to squeeze into 7 or so months, although the Business Secretary is expected to introduce new rules on that today so companies can carry it over.

  30. #930

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
    Anyone on here actually on the Furlough scheme?

    We’re having to take A/L, Lieu time or unpaid leave at the moment as the big bosses claim the 80% scheme is more complicated than it looks.

    Maybe it’s because it’s a European company, or maybe because some people can work at home. There’s also a rumour that as furlough is the alternative to redundancy, they’re worried that people who actually want redundancy are legally entitled to take it, costing the company money they can ill afford.

    It’s caused quite a bit of bad feeling, but they’ve asked us to bare with them for 2 weeks whilst they look into it. I’m not too bad because I do loads of extra hours for **** all so will make up AL taken with lieu, but some of my guys cant.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    It won’t cost the company anything to put an employee on 80% salary. All employee costs will eventually be covered including employer’s NI and auto-enrolment pension payments.

    Any arrangements must be subject to your contract of employment.

  31. #931

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    Quote Originally Posted by doddisalegend View Post
    So can PL football clubs furlough their players and get the government to foot 80% of the wage bill? Not that I have any idea if footballers count as Paye type employees or something else.

    Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk
    A lot of them are paid through limited companies.

  32. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    Ahhh so according to Jeremy spending vast amounts we can't afford and that will take us decades to pay off because we are in an unprecedented crisis and have no choice, is justification for spending vast amounts we can't afford and that will take us decades to pay off when we are not in an unprecedented crisis and do have a choice.

    **** I wish he'd won that election.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stknowle View Post
    Ahhh so according to Jeremy spending vast amounts we can't afford and that will take us decades to pay off because we are in an unprecedented crisis and have no choice, is justification for spending vast amounts we can't afford and that will take us decades to pay off when we are not in an unprecedented crisis and do have a choice.

    **** I wish he'd won that election.
    If anything it proves him completely wrong. This level of spending will damage the country for decades yet he wanted to do similar without a catastrophic once in a generation event. Imagine if Corbyn had got in and this virus had popped up in a year or two. if we had spent on the level he wanted we would be utterly utterly f*cked.

  34. #934

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    Quote Originally Posted by stknowle View Post
    Ahhh so according to Jeremy spending vast amounts we can't afford and that will take us decades to pay off because we are in an unprecedented crisis and have no choice, is justification for spending vast amounts we can't afford and that will take us decades to pay off when we are not in an unprecedented crisis and do have a choice.

    **** I wish he'd won that election.
    is this a sarcastic post?

    various economy commentators are speculating (on the radio) that we will be 'fine' at some point down the line, possibly within a decade.
    No one is discussing this as everyone wants a piece from the Govt right now and they (we) will probably push back hard when the realities of this bailout become apparent.

    That is because we have NOT bought BT and dished out broadband to everyone and nationalised everything else, otherwise, the economy would probably be ruined!
    Last edited by Batman; 27-03-2020 at 12:53 PM.

  35. #935

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    The problem with furloughing is if you want to open on a reduced hours basis.
    if you keep staff on, then technically, unless the contract otherwise says, you can’t just reduce their wages even for less working hours.
    obviously paying full wages can damage the financial stability of the company.
    Sonwhilst you want to carry on, it is not worth the hassle and money, better just claim the 80% etc.
    or, what about staff volunteering their Servcies for free?
    they get paid from the government and work for free.
    does that get around the rules?
    otherwise what is the point of trying to keep going?

  36. #936

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    Apparently you can work and get paid for another job, even if furloughed by your main company.
    again, ridiculous.
    so maybe I would be better starting another company and taking on staff on an hourly basis then?

  37. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Batman View Post
    is this a sarcastic post?

    various economy commentators are speculating (on the radio) that we will be 'fine' at some point down the line, possibly within a decade.
    No one is discussing this as everyone wants a piece from the Govt right now and they (we) will probably push back hard when the realities of this bailout become apparent.

    That is because we have NOT bought BT and dished out broadband to everyone and nationalised everything else, otherwise, the economy would probably be ruined!
    The bit about me wishing he had won the election was most definitely sarcasm. He is an utter moonraker.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stknowle View Post
    The bit about me wishing he had won the election was most definitely sarcasm. He is an utter moonraker.

  39. Default

    The point is if the NHS and DWP had been given proper funding over the last decade these departments would be in a much better place to deal with the current crisis etc
    Don't forget the Tories blaming Labour for the criminal behaviour of the banks worldwide , not just rolling up bad debt that they had encouraged people to buy and turn them into "Financial Instruments" to sell to other Banks but the Libor and other crimes that went largely unpunished. Having sold on these bad debts they were then free to sell even more mortgages at a low rate for the first year , failing to mention that the repayments would rapidly rise in following years , leading to more bad debt.
    The UK economy has barely recovered from this before Brexit and now the virus .

  40. #940

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    Quote Originally Posted by East Kent Saint View Post
    The point is if the NHS and DWP had been given proper funding over the last decade these departments would be in a much better place to deal with the current crisis etc
    Don't forget the Tories blaming Labour for the criminal behaviour of the banks worldwide , not just rolling up bad debt that they had encouraged people to buy and turn them into "Financial Instruments" to sell to other Banks but the Libor and other crimes that went largely unpunished. Having sold on these bad debts they were then free to sell even more mortgages at a low rate for the first year , failing to mention that the repayments would rapidly rise in following years , leading to more bad debt.
    The UK economy has barely recovered from this before Brexit and now the virus .
    Would it though.? What level of funding would be needed to ensure that it could cope with a crisis of this magnitude bearing that may not ever have even happened. Same argument as why doesn't SCC have more gritters and snowploughs. If the NHS had had a bigger budget, likelihood is more would have been spent on cancer research, mental health, reducing A&E waiting times, it still wouldn't have been able to cope with this.

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    Just been told we can take people off furlough after three weeks if needed. Result.

  42. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wurzel View Post
    Would it though.? What level of funding would be needed to ensure that it could cope with a crisis of this magnitude bearing that may not ever have even happened. Same argument as why doesn't SCC have more gritters and snowploughs. If the NHS had had a bigger budget, likelihood is more would have been spent on cancer research, mental health, reducing A&E waiting times, it still wouldn't have been able to cope with this.
    Yes it still would have been a massive problem . The NHS problems are not just funding but the the fact that the Tories from Thatcher onwards wanted to reduce the NHS and push people to towards private health care . Ken Clarke started the ball rolling by starting the internal market , since then we have had numerous reorganisations including one where the health secretary would have had no responsibility for the NHS . This was overturned !! We have had changes to GP contracts and then another filter to reduce hospital referals Comissioning Groups !!! Net result , difficult to get GP appointment in 2 weeks so people went to A&E .... Along the way corporate private health insurance was promoted etc etc . GPs now want out , several practices have closed in our area , remaining practices said they couldn't take any more numbers but the area health authority overruled them so they are struggling. Rural practices used to be given a subsidy to help them stay in place with low numbers but that was cancelled and they have ended up closed with villagers now having to travel to nearest town to see a Dr.
    Last edited by East Kent Saint; 27-03-2020 at 07:04 PM.

  43. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey Grandad View Post
    It won’t cost the company anything to put an employee on 80% salary. All employee costs will eventually be covered including employer’s NI and auto-enrolment pension payments.

    Any arrangements must be subject to your contract of employment.
    You seem like a bit of an expert, maybe you could help my daughter. She works for a dentist that does private & NHS work. He’s been advised by government to stay open for emergencies only. Therefore his income will be down and he’s only keeping on a skeleton team. He doesn’t want to lay her off, but can’t afford her wages. He thinks that the furlough scheme doesn’t cover him because he does NHS work. Is this correct.


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  44. #944

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
    You seem like a bit of an expert, maybe you could help my daughter. She works for a dentist that does private & NHS work. He’s been advised by government to stay open for emergencies only. Therefore his income will be down and he’s only keeping on a skeleton team. He doesn’t want to lay her off, but can’t afford her wages. He thinks that the furlough scheme doesn’t cover him because he does NHS work. Is this correct.
    The scheme is open to very employer no matter what work they do so your dentist can ‘furlough’ any of his employees subject to the conditions that are outlined in the links that I gave. There is a question as to whether his activities count as publicly funded.

    “Where employers receive public funding for staff costs, and that funding is continuing, we expect employers to use that money to continue to pay staff in the usual fashion – and correspondingly not furlough them. This also applies to non-public sector employers who receive public funding for staff costs.”

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-fo...tention-scheme
    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/check-if...tention-scheme

    I’m not a true expert but I have spent the past few days trying to find out more details by speaking to my accountant and sitting through a Sage webinar.

  45. #945

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    Quote Originally Posted by East Kent Saint View Post
    The point is if the NHS and DWP had been given proper funding over the last decade these departments would be in a much better place to deal with the current crisis etc
    Don't forget the Tories blaming Labour for the criminal behaviour of the banks worldwide , not just rolling up bad debt that they had encouraged people to buy and turn them into "Financial Instruments" to sell to other Banks but the Libor and other crimes that went largely unpunished. Having sold on these bad debts they were then free to sell even more mortgages at a low rate for the first year , failing to mention that the repayments would rapidly rise in following years , leading to more bad debt.
    The UK economy has barely recovered from this before Brexit and now the virus .
    Not all bad though, when Labour take over at the next election they will have a ten year pass on clearing up the Tories' mess

  46. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey Grandad View Post
    The scheme is open to very employer no matter what work they do so your dentist can ‘furlough’ any of his employees subject to the conditions that are outlined in the links that I gave. There is a question as to whether his activities count as publicly funded.

    “Where employers receive public funding for staff costs, and that funding is continuing, we expect employers to use that money to continue to pay staff in the usual fashion – and correspondingly not furlough them. This also applies to non-public sector employers who receive public funding for staff costs.”

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-fo...tention-scheme
    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/check-if...tention-scheme

    I’m not a true expert but I have spent the past few days trying to find out more details by speaking to my accountant and sitting through a Sage webinar.
    Thanks


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  47. #947

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    Quote Originally Posted by stknowle View Post
    Ahhh so according to Jeremy spending vast amounts we can't afford and that will take us decades to pay off because we are in an unprecedented crisis and have no choice, is justification for spending vast amounts we can't afford and that will take us decades to pay off when we are not in an unprecedented crisis and do have a choice.

    **** I wish he'd won that election.
    Yet somehow all of a sudden we have the magic money tree appear and it's applauded.

    Why does it appear when it's 5000 vulnerable people dying from a virus and not when it's tens of thousands dying from benefit cuts and sanctions?

    Because the rich are scared of it too.

  48. #948

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    Yet somehow all of a sudden we have the magic money tree appear and it's applauded.

    Why does it appear when it's 5000 vulnerable people dying from a virus and not when it's tens of thousands dying from benefit cuts and sanctions?

    Because the rich are scared of it too.
    You are a bit weird

  49. #949

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Batman View Post
    You are a bit weird
    You are very thick.

  50. #950

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
    Thanks
    Always a pleasure

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