Pes 2009

[Robsk II]

Watch:

 

 

At last, Konami are pulling their socks up in terms of presentation skills and so on. Cracking trailer I say. Well done them for securing the CL license and all attributes with it for 4 exclusive years. Gameplay is meant to be better again this year after the slight le down last year. There will still be some licensing issues outside of CL mode, but it still looks to be something worth getting excited about.

[St Marco]

my mate played it at the lezpeg games convention few weeks ago, said it was just as poor as last years. Will wait for the demo myself.

[Saint_clark]

Saints winning the Champions League at the end there, excellent.

I take it from that video that United and Liverpool will be the two licensed teams?

I'll still choose it ahead of Fifa because, even when it is worse, it is still more addictive.

[St Marco]

Saints winning the Champions League at the end there, excellent.

I take it from that video that United and Liverpool will be the two licensed teams?

I'll still choose it ahead of Fifa because, even when it is worse, it is still more addictive.

 

I disagree mate, i think Super charged soccer was more realistic then PES08. For me PES series died after number 5. It just hasent been able to bring that excellence into the new generation of consoles. The funny thing is up until last year i hated fifa with a passion, the fact that it was arcade and pretty much just the same game every year for like a decade. But the past 2 PES have been dire. I can run with my goalie on PES08 the whole pitch and score, it feels like it is you versus yourself rather then actually having an oponent. The 70% score it got is justified i think. Where as fifa last year went back to the drawing board and changed the whole you can run the whole pitch with the sprint button jammed down and score everytime. It is more about skill and finding openings with changes of tactics and positions. This makes the game major hard but once you mastered it makes it more realistic. PES09 has copied a lot from Fifa 08 as they have their own "Be a pro" now, it is about time they started to make other features as master league and custom tournament get boring very fast.

[GuttedAnt]

Aslong as Lawro is'nt doing the commentry again I might have a go.

[Ajv2809]

St Marco - Pro Evo didnt copy the 'Be A Pro' idea. It originally came from one of the Winning Eleven games a few years ago. Konami came up with it long before Fifa, but didnt include it in the Pro Evo series.

 

The videPro Evo in my eyes has always been better for the raw gameplay. And for me, thats what counts.

[saint_bert]

Pro Evo really needs a decent league mode. It still has my heart and no matter how hard i try to love FIFA I will always be a PES man

[saint_stevo]

Holland players names?

[Robsk II]

PES DOES need a revamped master league, no doubt about it. But as for gameplay, apparently leipzig had a poor build so there is some debate as to which code they will use for the demo. Some people supposedly "in the know" reckon they've recaptured the essence of PES5 in gameplay terms this time, balanced it right etc. I will probably try both, but I played both properly for the first time in ages last year. In the end, I tired of FIFA before PES, for all its faults in that iteration.

[The9]

Hmna, restricted as I am to 3 posts a day for as long as I'm a tightwad...

 

Konami's presentation skills I couldn't care less about. The CL license I couldn't really care about, but at least there will be a decent standalone mode instead of playing Konami Cup all the time.

 

Gameplay is expected to be PES5 (WE10)-esque, in that it's slower. Which is a good thing. More to the point, you can't just bloody dribble past everyone as was SO easy in 2008.

 

There are also licensing issues WITHIN CL mode, cos with Liverpool and Man U "official", apparently Arsenal and Chelsea aren't licensed, due to the 2 Prem clubs per game rule - and Konami have also lost the La Liga Spanish license (rumoured 7 Spanish clubs licensed) and there's also a question about the Serie A license which we won't know about for a while. Though the current (official) PESUnites website lists FIGC (Italian FA) and the Italian players' association as licenses, there's no mention of the Serie A license, only AC Milan by name.

 

St Marco's mate who played it at Leipzig will also know that WENB have been reporting for about 6 weeks that the Leipzig build was really early and actually very similar to PES2008, but also that they themselves, and most of the games media, already had more advanced later builds to preview from. Having said that, WENB's credibility took a clobbering last year with their failure to report on 2008's failings.

 

That wasn't Saints winning the CL, that was PES United. And anyone picking either PES OR FIFA automatically at the moment is a numpty, I hated PES2008 and actually bought FIFA, but while it was decent, found it slow and samey after a few games, and I HATE the cartoon faces. The FIFA09 demo plays EXACTLY the same at 08 as far as I can tell from a few games of that, and I won't be buying it even for all the multiplayer online stuff without seeing a few games of someone else at it first.

 

I am shaking my head in resignation at St Marco's nonsense about Konami "copying" Be A Pro too, presumably he's never heard of Konami's Fantasista mode in J-League Winning Eleven Club Championship 2007 on PS2, which came out months before FIFA 08 with Be A Legend last year - not to mention all the games in the past with single-player viewpoints back into the 90s and probably before.

 

But I can't argue that PES lacks game modes - but to be honest I couldn't be arsed to play a whole season in FIFA08 anyway it got so repetitive, so both could improve. Also, in my FIRST FIFA09 demo match, I conceded a diving back header from a player diving out of the side of the six yard box (ahead of the direction of the ball) in a manner that utterly defied physics, which told me nothing had changed on that front.

 

Sorry GuttedAnt, but it's Lawrenson again.

 

No-one can tell from videos how the gameplay will be, especially regarding PES where the keepers were trash on PES2008 and really need to be better, but might be worse from low-level "goal action" videos. FIFA keepers are much better though, far more realistic and effective last year.

 

Holland players names have been correct since about PES4, or if not, it's no effort to edit them anyway, what's the big deal ? At least they're not PES3(?)s Oranges123 !!!

 

And Robsk, I'm assuming you played PES2008 on PC, which was probably the only version worth anything, cos the 360 version was awful and unplayable, especially online, and I didn't even get as far as editing myself properly I was so peeved with the game. It just flat out wasn't a challenge, wasn't football, wasn't fun, and wasn't even bloody finished.

 

FWIW PES2009 is believed to have far more kits for editing (70+ templates and 4 layers, plus as Hull have the same kit style as Saints we'll be able to do a perfect Saints kit). They also have DECENT, REALISTIC LOOKING officially licensed adidas boots (again), plus Nike and Puma styles as well, in a variety of colours. I'm really hoping we get the 36 boot edit slots back even if we're fixed to licensed boots plus 4 plain colours. My adipure black/white are in anyway, so I'm happy!

 

Funnily enough I haven't heard anything about the Camera capture of kits this year, maybe they've hoiked it, or maybe as it's not new it's just not publicised, but you can sponsor import and badge edit/import (at least on PS3, the 360 needs the new functionality of the new dashboard for USB importing). There are 40 picture slots for badges etc as well as the pixel editor, and .png files and transparency are supported.

 

Which of course all means jack all if the gameplay sucks.

 

Like some others I love my PES, but I think I'll be renting first this year because last time was SUCH a letdown. But if they produce PES2008 with slowed down gameplay, a good edit mode and decent AI and keepers, it won't take ALL that much to turn me back into a PESfan.

 

I miss my Winning Eleven though.

[Robsk II]

Same boat Scott. I'll be playing before I buy. I did play the PC version, yeah, and it's always good because you can download patches pretty easily that do the whole thing. Editing is worth it for a good version, but it's always nicer to just go "click, fiddle a bit" and have "full licensing". In my case I got all the championship clubs etc, up to date teams and so on. So while I agree it was a let down, I would still say it had more longevity and variability etc than Fifa, and that's having played both. I'm not bad at PES anyway, but clobbering United 10-0 sort of.. yeah. Let's hope 09 is better.

[St Marco]

The9 some very good points there but lets not go overboard about PES Be a Pro. They had it so you can lock in 1 position in the controler set-up page by moving the little assit bar thing down to 1 bars. All that meant is you can play a game as 1 player. If your talking about that then why have you not mentioned Fifa 94-95 where you could do that or even Total Football where you could do that? The difference is EA have taken that element and changed it. They have made it so you can have a career where if you play well you might get bought. But by playing well also means you might get picked for the national team. The Be a Pro of Fifa is very very different from that of PES and it is laughable to even try and compare the two.

 

I have not played PES09 so i can't pass judgement on that game yet, but i have played Fifa 09 and to me it is very similar to last years. Normally that would be a bad thing for me but this time they have actually fixed the things that annoyed me and made the game better. The new features are fun. Most of my friends who love PES series have agreed Fifa 09 is better then last year and there is no comparison to PES08. If Konami want to get back to the golden days where they had the best football game on the planet (4/5) then they need to start changing things and actually listen to people. They have changed little over the years and this year all the comments i have seen point to another failure. Another year where they promise xyz but do nothing. The problem with PES is since it has turned into a game released every year it has struggled. They need to take it away and spend as long as it takes to create the perfect game. 2K will be entering the fray soon with their new football game and if it is like their NBA games then PES is in even further trouble. As you mentioned nobody should be writing off PES09 without even playing it as that is just silly. Get the demo/rent it and decide for yourself if you like it. Some people love games others hate. I loved Fight Night (mainly because i box) but others hated it and it got like 70% reviews etc..

The one good thing about PES and Fifa is they push each other to make better games. Without PES im sure EA would just churn out the same game every year still.

[GuttedAnt]

 

Sorry GuttedAnt, but it's Lawrenson again.

 

 

ARRRRGHHHHH!!!

 

Last time it sounded like they recorded his voice in a cardboard box. And as bad as it was, at least with Peter Brackley and Trevor Brooking it actually sounded convincing.

 

Commentry might be a non-issue for some people but last years was part of the reason I didn't enjoy it.

[Danny]

I would just like to say "Hello The9". I know for a fact he is screaming at his monitor at the fact he is unable to reply!

 

:smt039

[Robsk II]

Lolscott.

[The9]

Well thank crap that 24 hour period has expired. For those who DON'T know, my Facebook status for most of today was the equivalent of me jumping up and down in frustration at using up my 3 posts for the day at 1:30am...

 

...because of Saint Marco posting that message above in which he has TOTALLY misunderstand what the Fantasista mode I was talking about was about.

 

Firstly, the option to lock on a single player has been in a ton of games, and pretty much all the PES games I've ever played. However, I wasn't talking about that.

 

The Fantasista mode, from WEJLCC07 (for short), was a full career mode, in which you created your player, chose your stronger foot, hairstyle, appearance, allocated a position and some skills for yourself, and ended up on the bench or in the reserves for a (Japanese, which was the language the game was in) J-League 2nd Division team.

 

Depending on whether you were selected or not, you might play, watch (if you were sub) or skip the game and train to gain attribute points.

 

The in-game mode featured you playing as a single player, viewed close-up from behind, with the pitch rotating around you in 360 degrees. In fact, it looked very similar to Libero Grande, which is the first person footy perspective game I couldn't remember the name of yesterday.

 

But the point is, you played the match as one player, you couldn't change your player during the match, there was no setting the tolerance low or anything because it was a completely separate game mode, kind of like watching a single player perspective in a replay.

 

And you had a career, which usually went from J-Lge 2 to J-Lge 1 to Europe, depending on your success. As it was in Japanese I played about a season and a half in J-Lge 2 before I got fed up of being offered a transfer to J Lge 1's bottom 3, and then PES6 came out for Xbox360 the week after so the chipped PS2 got retired.

 

Funnily enough I only deleted the rar file from my laptop last week...

 

Anyway, the point was that Konami's Winning Eleven J-League Club Championship 2007, the Japanese Club version of PES, had something suspiciously resembling FIFA08's "Be A Pro" a full few months before Be A Pro was even released. FWIW I think Be A Pro is probably better, but EA defeintely weren't first in that particular contest (and as I mentioned, Libero Grande built a whole game around the same concept in about 1995 anyway, but without the career mode).

 

Anyway, onto other things, a pretty big PES news day today, with some actual in-game late review version video emerging from Sweden - there's a bit of weirdness, as the CL mode is shown clearly, and there are lists of teams, but Liverpool don't seem to feature in it - though PES2009 has a licensed Cluj ! My suspicion is that the licensed teams in CL are all grouped together, but they're not all on one page, so only SOME of the licensed teams in CL have been seen. But it's all but confirmed that Arsenal and Chelsea WON'T be licensed. On the bright side, you seem to able to include any teams you want in the UEFA CL (and play Exhibitions with the CL ad-boards etc). No idea if BATE Borisov are in though.

 

Vids are here anyway : http://www.winningelevenblog.com/news/new-pes-2009-videos/

 

The feckers STILL won't go into Edit mode though - although there is a screenshot of edit mode (showing the 4 shirt edit layers) taken from a (rubbish) Spanish magazine (on the right, half way down here

 

 

The translation also says there are 32 licensed teams in the CL, which may be sort of true as there are probably 32 licensed teams in the game, but they're not the 32 teams that are actually in the CL this season, cos various national licensing regulations (and EA/FIFA) prevent more than 2 Prem clubs and ANY German clubs being in PES.

 

Oh, and the Serie A license has definitely gone, but apparently Konami has licenses for all of the Serie A clubs anyway, so if you can put up with an "England League" style "Calcio" logo, you'll still have licensed Italian sides.

 

Oh yeah, and Ronaldinho's white boots with the dark inside-foot piece are in the game too. The boots licensing seems to have massively improved - AND the boots look better than the ones on my FIFA09 demo. The Vapors on FIFA's Drogba look like clogs !

 

I think that's it for today. God I hope this game doesn't suck, I'm dying for PES2009 to be good; I was playing the FIFA09 demo earlier and it does seem a bit crisper and smoother than last season, but that may just be me playing as Chelsea not Saints !!!

 

Oh and hi Dan, remind me not to pass to you on Sunday !

 

Double-oh, I have to say Lawrenson wouldn't be my choice either, but the only commentary so far seems to be last year's, so that could change. Brackley and Brooking were cool, but having loved Jon Kabira's Winning Eleven "SHOOOOOOOOTOH"s for 4 years in Japanese I can't say it makes much difference to me. "CHANCES-NAAAH" ! "HEADING-A" !!! Go Kabira !

[St Marco]

My sources tell me the demo will be released on thursday (the day fifa 09 is released)

[GuttedAnt]

My sources tell me the demo will be released on thursday (the day fifa 09 is released)

 

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=248718

 

Nice timing eh?

[St Marco]

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=248718

 

Nice timing eh?

 

Ah i not read eurogamer for awhile, i think only them i tend to agree with review wise.

 

However in terms of timing it could go either way i think. It could be a clever ploy to remind people that Pro Evo is still around and is actually good this year so hold of buying fifa and wait for us!! Or most likely is a last grasp tactic in trying to keep the whole fifa vs pes thing going.

[JustMike]

always have been a fifa man myself but i will give the demo a go

[Saint_clark]

I'm assuming the demo will be downloadable from PSN?

[Johnny Shearer]

I wish I had never exchanged PES5 for PES6.

[Ajv2809]

Demo is out today!

 

You heard it here first!

[Ajv2809]

Hmmm. I meant you heard it here third....

 

[Baj]

Out on PS3 and Xbox today?

[St Landrew]

I wish I had never exchanged PES5 for PES6.

 

My favourite has SFC featured as one of the teams. It doesn't seem the same after that.

[saintmorley]

Demo is out today!

 

You heard it here first!

 

Downloading it now. is going painfully slow though. anyone got it yet? if so whats it like??

[pittdogg]

i just downloaded it. i am not biased. but its awful.it felt like i was playing on a old console(early ps2 footie game)as for the game play. it sucked.i was a big lover of the pro evo series. and i was hoping for a massive improvement on last years poor attempt.but its not improved at all. just a reminder of how they have lost the magic of what was once a great game.

 

im going to buy fifa 09 tomorrow. not just because pro is a let down.but fifa is now a good football game.

[Saint_clark]

Downloading it now - it can't be that bad pittdogg, surely?

[mattbrennan]

pittdogg is right. It is really not that good. Just played the demo of both PES and FIFA. My £40 will be going to EA this year. FIFA has taken the crown. They accepted PES was better and completely reinvented the game. It worked. Bye bye PES

[St Marco]

I Played it for a few hours and thought it was poor. I just don't understand Konami. They spend so much time trying to get a few official teams in the game when they should be trying to actually make a decent game worthy of the licence. They have turned into the fifa of old where they just change the game name and re-release it every year. If only they could take it away and stop making a yearly game, work on it until it is done and is like PES4 and 5. Those games were awesome. Konami have struggled to make the game this generation and that is kind of strange. Last year they said "were sorry for the game we will go back and start again, a new engine a new game". Well they lied then.

[GuttedAnt]

Downloading it now but generally, and not just here, the demo hasn't gone down well with PES fans, hardcore or not. I'll judge for myself once it's downloaded.

[Saint_clark]

Oh my god, it is sh*t.

St Marco, how the f*ck can you play a 5 minute demo for hours?

I think i'll be getting Fifa this year, which is a shame. Last years PES was bad, but it was playable.

[St Marco]

Oh my god, it is sh*t.

St Marco, how the f*ck can you play a 5 minute demo for hours?

I think i'll be getting Fifa this year, which is a shame. Last years PES was bad, but it was playable.

 

Well reason i can play it for hours is some clever fella created a hack so you can play for as long as you want

http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/41899/Pro-Evolution-Soccer-2009-PC-Demo-Hack

 

Plus i always think some games need a bit of time to play. Many games i have played and hated it after the first 1hr or so but then started to like it. Like Force Unleashed

[Ajv2809]

While it isn't anywhere near the perfect game that Konami have been promising us, I don't think its as bad as people made out.

 

The gameplay is alot slower, which at first I struggled with. But it took time and once you have got used to it, the game seems more fluid.

 

I'm not at all blown away. But I think its better than last years attempt, just not by much.

[Saint_clark]

While it isn't anywhere near the perfect game that Konami have been promising us, I don't think its as bad as people made out.

 

The gameplay is alot slower, which at first I struggled with. But it took time and once you have got used to it, the game seems more fluid.

 

I'm not at all blown away. But I think its better than last years attempt, just not by much.

 

The trouble I have with it is the players seem to be either very good or very bad.

Playing as Liverpool, Torres and Gerrard are awesome and it's fine when they have the ball - everyone else is utter sh*te. Their touches bounce off them about a metre away, their passes are slow and usually behind the player, and don't even get me started on the tackling system.

It's the worst PES i've ever played.

[labibs]

Personally I quite liked it. Like the way they have slowed the game down and the fact that you have to create chances rather than just running straight through defences with Ronaldo or Messi like you could in the previous version. I'll be buying a copy.

 

Then again, everyone is entitled to their own opinion

[Saint_clark]

Also, corners are stupidly easy to score from.

[The9]

I'd appreciate it if someone could remove that big ole' ugly scan from the middle of the thread for me now... no idea it was that big.

 

Um, I'm still at a loss to why people don't like PES2009, it's an excellent PES game, totally in the tradition of all their other games (except last year's).

 

I just can't get on with FIFA09 this year, I absolutely hate the bobbly control and turning actions, and I conceded a pathetic goal on the demo where a player was in the six yard box wide of the goal at the far post, dived towards the sideline even further from the goal and travelling in the wrong direction and the ball was powerfully headed into the net off the back of his head in total contravention of all existing laws of physics.

[The9]

Also, corners are stupidly easy to score from.

 

I haven't managed it in 4 days so far...

[skintsaint]

PES08 was a good playable game, online mode ruined it. Its all I played the previous versions for.

 

as long as PES09 is good online then my Fifa09 will get sold.

[saintsforlife7]

Fifa is so much better than last year, but it's still so rubbish when you are running forward and balls coming over your head and your player stops looks and then is half a yard behind the defender, or your defender tries to smash the ball away, only to swing at thin air ands fal on the floor allowing the attacker to run onto a free ball towards goal.

 

In this aspect, and graphical faces in PES are so much better than Fifa, with an option file being brought out with all kits and badges perfected PES will still be no.1 for me

[magnet]

I've played both FIFA09 and PES2009 (360) and personally prefer PES. Found it easier and move intuitive than FIFA. Maybe its cause I'm a bit of a noob when it comes to football games that I prefered it.

[St Marco]

Still maintain it's poor and graphics wise has nothing on Fifa which actually got better graphics wise this year. The crowd in PES09 is pitiful, PES09 remains structured around getting the ball then trying to run with the ball past people. It is tottally voidless of passing. And then when you do try to pass it uses a 1980's rail system where you pass it and the ball becomes automatic, the really annoying thing is you do a through ball or a pass into the path of someone running and the player just stops before he gets the ball and the ball runs out of play. Just watch the first 2 mins of this official video http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=LfohbZdzOao

 

It is nothing at all like real football and im with the PES community on this one, Konami need to go back to the drawing board and stop making an annual game because since then the games have been awful and 09 is no different. Fifa has got a metascore of 89% this year and i would expect PES09 to get around 70% scores. A game that some will like and some won't. It is now compeating with games like Super Mario Soccer then Fifa.

[Robsk II]

In fairness, while they do need to pull their finger out next time around, saying PES is about trying to run around people is pure ********. have you played the demo this time? Good luck with that.

[saintsforlife7]

http://www.winningelevenblog.com/news/option-file-update-chelsea-vs-arsenal/

 

Graphics wise Fifa is nowhere near Pro, after this option file the graphics will be so much better, faces in PES destroy Fifa, and the statement about the player stopping and the ball runnning out of play is one of the most infuriating things in Fifa this year.

[St Marco]

In fairness, while they do need to pull their finger out next time around, saying PES is about trying to run around people is pure ********. have you played the demo this time? Good luck with that.

 

well the official video shows that in pretty much every possesion, guy gets ball, runs with ball, passes 1 guy, the ball then gets magically stuck to the opponents foot and so on, that is in that video. And i have played the demo. If you go to the PES community forum your see even the most biased of Pro Evo fans agree that the gameplay is all wrong. By saying it is good for the sake of it just hurts the franchise more. We want Konami to get back to the days of 4&5. This is nowhere near it.

 

And Saints For Life. Pro Evo 09 has a near 7 year old games engine. The graphics are miles behind Fifa. Don't believe me?

 

Well gametrailers did a comparison of the two games graphics wise and fifa killed it. Pro Evo however imo has slightly better player faces.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/273461.html

 

Notice not only the player animations on fifa are better but look how tacky the grass,stadium,shadows etc.. is in pro evo 09. As i said above saying the game is better simply because you want it to be doesn't help the game at all. Konami fooked up. Again.

Edited 9 October, 2008 by St Marco

[Robsk II]

Marco - judging the official video is hardly a decent basis. A video may well intend to convey the 'beauty' of the game or whatever rather than providing a good insight into how the game feels and plays. Why not judge it on the demo alone which you claim to have played? The video simply shouldn't come into a judgement on gameplay.

 

I'm not saying it's good for the sake of it, and that's an absurd accusation. I am not one to be blinkered. Clearly PES09 will still have its detractors, and still has its faults. The graphics engine is creaking, no doubt about it - BUT it looks pretty decent overall, and it is a step forwards from last year. I think the player models are generally better than FIFA, and the lighting has improved. They won't be able to get away with it any more, we all know it, but this years looks OK. The crowd is laughable, yes, but the d.o.f. effect helps. They have also done something like that on the pitch, which looks a bit better than before too - further away on the pitch looks further away, if that makes sense. We all know the stupid banners ("Celery"), too many konami adboards, etc are a ****ing joke.. little things alone, but as a package reek of stupidity and lack of attention to detail. They don't break the game, but they really do have a massive effect on the realism. Also, Konami clearly misses a trick a lot of the tie with its team research and so on. The animation will soon need reworking, too. Still - I reject your view that they are awful, and the grass and so on are better than before on PES. Not perfect, but not a **** up.

 

However - if I buy it, I will get the PC version, I will download patches and so on to render the license problems moot, and I will be playing at 1680x1050. It will look better than the console versions, probably. It'll come with all the custom sounds people make and so on, so I reckon it'll be the best way to play it. I may well try FIFA at some point - but the problem is, half the people said FIFA was great last year. It simply wasn't. it was a whole lot better than other versions of recent times, and i actually played it quite a lot. This, however, is what broke it for me. After a while, it became too easy. Goals started to feel samey, it was too easy to beat people, the animations looked cheesy, as did a lot of the graphics. I just got tired of it. The old PES games I would still be playing a year later, because at the end of the day, the game FELT better. Goals FELT worked for and never really easy, even when you dicked the computer. As it was, I got rid of FIFA last year, and ended up playing the admittedly relatively crappy PES08 instead. That says it all. I just expect the gameplay to be better in PES, and while I will reserve judgement, I sort of expect it to be the same deal - particularly given that it feels 'fixed' in PES from what I've seen in the demo.

[St Marco]

Thats a very good write up Rob and i agree with pretty much all of it. We all like different things and we all like games to have certain attributes. Some games which are panned i really like (Fight Night,Force Unleashed). As i said higher up somewhere if we don't have fifa and pes then nobody will be pushed to make a better game. I still play PES5 that is how high i rate that

[Robsk II]

Yeah, it's good that there are both to push each other along. The ironic thing is that if you had a fusion of the best attributes of both games, we'd have some sort of footballing nirvana. Can you imagine it? The presentation values and licensing, the commentary and depth of modes, number of leagues and so on from FIFA, coupled with EA's newfound push towards simulation - with the ball physics, responsiveness, crispness of control, the 'feel', etc, of PES. It would be ace. I for one actually think PES remains the closest to the feel of football. Not the pacing, as such, but trying to fit 90 minutes into 5 or ten was never going to be feasible if you made it a genuine full on simulation, because there'd be a whole lot of 0-0 draws. More the way it plays out. Overall, I would really like something that felt as much as possible like a simulation, and was only 'arcadey' where required to make it still enjoyable.