The academy could save us.

[derry]

Just an thought. Usually clubs develop maybe one even two players in a season sometimes none at all.

 

If we managed to bring through say 5 or 6 with others queuing up to play, that could really work in our favour.

 

Once word gets out that we are getting a lot of youngsters into the first team, it could be, that high quality youngsters/parents will see the odds on their sons making it shorten, and want to come here. Also players like Pekart/Cork etc.

[Colinjb]

You'll never field a stable 11, they will break through, shine, then get snapped up by the highest bidder. No hope of the team fully developing, it would be soul destroying.

[Johnny Shearer]

Saying that, looking at the results of the youth teams - they don't seem to be doing that well.

 

Navyred will know. Can you give us an update?

[derry]

You'll never field a stable 11, they will break through, shine, then get snapped up by the highest bidder. No hope of the team fully developing, it would be soul destroying.

 

And lucrative, we were never going to keep them all. The more quality players we produce, the better the team and the greater the income.

 

If promotion was on the cards more could stay. At least that's the theory.

[Thedelldays]

sounds a great idea..in truth it is not..

 

how many of these players are actually ready??

 

really?

[derry]

Saying that, looking at the results of the youth teams - they don't seem to be doing that well.

 

Navyred will know. Can you give us an update?

 

I'm not talking now, but what the present could lead to. Access to quality on the back of greater opportunity.

[Guest Hacienda]

Just an thought. Usually clubs develop maybe one even two players in a season sometimes none at all.

 

If we managed to bring through say 5 or 6 with others queuing up to play, that could really work in our favour.

 

Once word gets out that we are getting a lot of youngsters into the first team, it could be, that high quality youngsters/parents will see the odds on their sons making it shorten, and want to come here. Also players like Pekart/Cork etc.

 

Worked well for Crewe.

[Thedelldays]

I'm not talking now, but what the present could lead to. Access to quality on the back of greater opportunity.

our acedemy is that good

[um pahars]

Just an thought. Usually clubs develop maybe one even two players in a season sometimes none at all.

 

If we managed to bring through say 5 or 6 with others queuing up to play, that could really work in our favour.

 

Once word gets out that we are getting a lot of youngsters into the first team, it could be, that high quality youngsters/parents will see the odds on their sons making it shorten, and want to come here. Also players like Pekart/Cork etc.

 

If........................

[Window Cleaner]

So could Doctor Who or that guy from Quantum Leap, by going back in time and telling Crouch to keep the ball in the corner against Everton-still as Tull said: Where the hell was Biggles when you needed him last Saturday.

[derry]

If........................

 

We are playing them, if they survive and come through, then we would certainly be better off than the traditional way. As there is little choice it may be a side effect of playing a lot of youngsters.

[MrWoody83]

if the academy was/is to be our saviour would we not be flying high with the likes of Wolves/Birmingham right now?...

 

The spin at the start of the season was that Youth was the new dawn and would guide us toward promotion, somehow I think not with the start we have had...

 

Playing attractive football and losing, would much rather see crap football with points on the board!

[derry]

So could Doctor Who or that guy from Quantum Leap, by going back in time and telling Crouch to keep the ball in the corner against Everton-still as Tull said: Where the hell was Biggles when you needed him last Saturday.

 

Interesting point, deserves a thread of it's own.

[um pahars]

As there is little choice it may be a side effect of playing a lot of youngsters.

 

Our finances may well restrict some of the things we want to do, but we still have/had choices available to us.

 

Going down this route was not the only option, so let's put that one to bed straight away (for instance we could have gone with Pearson, we could have used the Scheiderlin fee to pay for some experienced pros etc etc et).

 

I'm not saying doing it another way would be better or worse, but there were choices available to us.

[derry]

I'm talking about 15/16 year old recruits not yet at the club, pre contract youngsters, and young professional quality recruits loan/ permanent in the shorter term. Not the present incumbents in the academy.

 

It is the ability to recruit better quality youngsters through the perception of a better chance to succeed.

[Thedelldays]

I'm talking about 15/16 year old recruits not yet at the club, pre contract youngsters, and young professional quality recruits loan/ permanent in the shorter term. Not the present incumbents in the academy.

 

It is the ability to recruit better quality youngsters through the perception of a better chance to succeed.

even when the academy ha million ploughed into it we produced two of real note...bale and of course theo..

 

what much chance is there now with the shirt buttons we have to spend

[derry]

Our finances may well restrict some of the things we want to do, but we still have/had choices available to us.

 

Going down this route was not the only option, so let's put that one to bed straight away (for instance we could have gone with Pearson, we could have used the Scheiderlin fee to pay for some experienced pros etc etc et).

 

I'm not saying doing it another way would be better or worse, but there were choices available to us.

 

The little choice is because that is the chosen path. If they change direction it's another scenario.

[70's Mike]

I'm talking about 15/16 year old recruits not yet at the club, pre contract youngsters, and young professional quality recruits loan/ permanent in the shorter term. Not the present incumbents in the academy.

 

It is the ability to recruit better quality youngsters through the perception of a better chance to succeed.

 

most of the really good ones are signed up by 15/16 , your plan would only work if we can get them at 12/13.

The other issue about better chance to succeed is that ego takes over and a choice between Arsenal and Saints often means parents plump for Arsenal because THEY believe their son is a world beater.

Even the Crewe academy has dried up recently with very few lads coming through into the premiership.

[derry]

even when the academy ha million ploughed into it we produced two of real note...bale and of course theo..

 

what much chance is there now with the shirt buttons we have to spend

 

Who knows. It has been a massive money spinner. £30m - £35m in the last 3 years.

[um pahars]

even when the academy ha million ploughed into it we produced two of real note...bale and of course theo..

 

what much chance is there now with the shirt buttons we have to spend

 

Should probaby throw in Baird and Surman as well.

 

But we have had this debate many times before, in that the Academy was always rolled out as this jam tomorrow thing that would save us, when in reality it never produced a conveyor belt of talent that then went on to play for the first team.

 

It proved it's worth by earning us millions in transfer fees (which we could then spend), but it was never this conveyor belt of talent turning out players by the bucketload.

[Thedelldays]

Who knows. It has been a massive money spinner. £30m - £35m in the last 3 years.

ok....do you see any of this lot going for anything close to the sums that bale and theo did..

 

when theo broke into the team you KNEW he was going on to great things..ffs, wenger stated last week that theo was watched by his scouts around 50 times before they bought him...I doubt it was just arsenal watching him..

 

after bales impressive start to the season two years ago you KNEW we would be lucky to hang on to him..

 

 

the only one that MAY go is lallana....that is only IF he stops going missing in games...but I just cant see him going for anything like the deals the others went...and they were products of a very well funded academy..

[derry]

most of the really good ones are signed up by 15/16 , your plan would only work if we can get them at 12/13.

The other issue about better chance to succeed is that ego takes over and a choice between Arsenal and Saints often means parents plump for Arsenal because THEY believe their son is a world beater.

Even the Crewe academy has dried up recently with very few lads coming through into the premiership.

 

Maybe true, it's not a plan, just a perceived possible consequence. If I was a parent and could see a 30/50% chance of playing first team football and if good enough a transfer, rather than a possible 5% chance I know where my son would go.

[TopGun]

Over the past few years when arguably the academy was stronger than it is now because of the likes of Georges Prost the academy produced about two players a year that made the grade.

 

It is likely that there is no difference now, we are just playing more youngsters because we have no choice, it doesn't mean that they are all ready or will even make the grade of CCC or better.

 

IMO the ones we are playing who are good enough currently are only Lallana and Lancashire.

 

Gillet, Thomson, James, McGoldrick, Hatch are all borderline currently.

 

White and Mills are not ready yet.

[derry]

ok....do you see any of this lot going for anything close to the sums that bale and theo did..

 

when theo broke into the team you KNEW he was going on to great things..ffs, wenger stated last week that theo was watched by his scouts around 50 times before they bought him...I doubt it was just arsenal watching him..

 

after bales impressive start to the season two years ago you KNEW we would be lucky to hang on to him..

 

 

the only one that MAY go is lallana....that is only IF he stops going missing in games...but I just cant see him going for anything like the deals the others went...and they were products of a very well funded academy..

As I've said before I'm not talking about players at the club, I'm talking about the perception of parents seeing enhanced opportunity because of the club's present policy.

 

As a consequence, if parents want their sons to come here before 17 there is damn all other clubs can do about it, as long as we don't poach them.

[70's Mike]

Over the past few years when arguably the academy was stronger than it is now because of the likes of Georges Prost the academy produced about two players a year that made the grade.

 

It is likely that there is no difference now, we are just playing more youngsters because we have no choice, it doesn't mean that they are all ready or will even make the grade of CCC or better.

 

IMO the ones we are playing who are good enough currently are only Lallana and Lancashire.

 

Gillet, Thomson, James, McGoldrick, Hatch are all borderline currently.

 

White and Mills are not ready yet.

 

agreed and some of them are hardly youngsters,

the problem is now to make the premiership as an english young player you have to be exceptional, not even sure if Lallana falls into that category yet

[derry]

It may well have been that we only produced the players that reached the first team. If more had been given the chance in a younger team we might have more playing now. Blackstock, mills, Cranie, Best for example. They were all on the periphary but hardly ever picked.

[70's Mike]

It may well have been that we only produced the players that reached the first team. If more had been given the chance in a younger team we might have more playing now. Blackstock, mills, Cranie, Best for example. They were all on the periphary but hardly ever picked.

 

but that is the current nature of premiership and top level CCC , YOU HAVE TO exeptional to get a chance,

I am not saying it is right, in fact i think it is wrong, but that is the way of football in England in 2008

[Weston Saint]

What I think Derry is saying is that by using the younger players in the first team in numbers it will attract young potentials (through their parents) to join our acadamy because of a better chance of playing and getting first team experience at an earlier age. Also clubs in the premier will be more willing to lend us their youngers who have shown promise in their acadamies but not quite ready for the riggers of Premiership football.

 

As I see it, if Lallana progresses like is expected and snapped up by a Premier side for a good transfer fee we will likely be able to replace him with a good acadamy player loan whilst our 16 & 17 year olds are progressing in the acadamy.

 

Our acadamy will be more attractive to newcomers and our club attractive for blooding good Premier club youngsters.

 

In the meantime, just may be enough will progress together in the next few seasons to get us back with the big boys.

[derry]

but that is the current nature of premiership and top level CCC , YOU HAVE TO exeptional to get a chance,

I am not saying it is right, in fact i think it is wrong, but that is the way of football in England in 2008

 

That's why possibly more of them, could find their way here in the future, as a consquence of the club policy.

[derry]

What I think Derry is saying is that by using the younger players in the first team in numbers it will attract young potentials (through their parents) to join our acadamy because of a better chance of playing and getting first team experience at an earlier age. Also clubs in the premier will be more willing to lend us their youngers who have shown promise in their acadamies but not quite ready for the riggers of Premiership football.

 

As I see it, if Lallana progresses like is expected and snapped up by a Premier side for a good transfer fee we will likely be able to replace him with a good acadamy player loan whilst our 16 & 17 year olds are progressing in the acadamy.

 

Our acadamy will be more attractive to newcomers and our club attractive for blooding good Premier club youngsters.

 

In the meantime, just may be enough will progress together in the next few seasons to get us back with the big boys.

 

Exactly.

[um pahars]

What I think Derry is saying is that by using the younger players in the first team in numbers it will attract young potentials (through their parents) to join our acadamy because of a better chance of playing and getting first team experience at an earlier age. Also clubs in the premier will be more willing to lend us their youngers who have shown promise in their acadamies but not quite ready for the riggers of Premiership football.

 

As I see it, if Lallana progresses like is expected and snapped up by a Premier side for a good transfer fee we will likely be able to replace him with a good acadamy player loan whilst our 16 & 17 year olds are progressing in the acadamy.

 

Our acadamy will be more attractive to newcomers and our club attractive for blooding good Premier club youngsters.

 

In the meantime, just may be enough will progress together in the next few seasons to get us back with the big boys.

 

I would counter argue that I would like to see my son developed and coached at a well resourced Academy (I think that for us, those days are gone).

 

In addition I would like to see him nurtured and used when it is right for him, not thrown in too early because the first team are desperate.

 

Despite some people trying to tell us Staplewood is state of the art, it really isn't and there are a number of clubs who have a much better set up than we have.

 

We're just a low level Championship team trying to do its best to survive. We've always had a decent reputation for developing youngsters and I'm sure we'll tick over, but any line that the Academy will be our saviour is just a rehash of the old jam tomorrow promise.

[Arizona]

Just an thought. Usually clubs develop maybe one even two players in a season sometimes none at all.

 

If we managed to bring through say 5 or 6 with others queuing up to play, that could really work in our favour.

 

Once word gets out that we are getting a lot of youngsters into the first team, it could be, that high quality youngsters/parents will see the odds on their sons making it shorten, and want to come here. Also players like Pekart/Cork etc.

 

Thrusting young players into the first team isn't developing them. For some of them, we may be doing more harm than good. Take Gillett for example. Started the season strong, but now the going is tough, there are very few wise heads to turn to and he is struggling. Same with DMG, White, James and other youngsters to a varying extent.

 

People will only queue up to pay for youngsters if they are good enough, not because they have been in the first team all year. If this team continues to play like this for the rest of the season, we'd probably get £1.5m for Lallana, maybe £500k for DMG, MS and Holmes... that's pretty much it.

 

You have also completely ignored the appaling state of our first team. Imagine this lot now, without the players above. Not only would we be relegated, but we would keep sliding downwards and in 2 years be fighting the drop to League 2.

 

Parents sending their kids to our accademy... given choice, would you rather send your kids to a League 1/2 accademy or someone like Spuds, Villa or Middlesborough?

 

Kids are not the answer. You can blood maybe 3 or 4 into a good team each season. Having 8, 2 free transfers at centre half and a goalie is just suicide.

[aintforever]

What I think Derry is saying is that by using the younger players in the first team in numbers it will attract young potentials (through their parents) to join our acadamy because of a better chance of playing and getting first team experience at an earlier age. Also clubs in the premier will be more willing to lend us their youngers who have shown promise in their acadamies but not quite ready for the riggers of Premiership football.

 

As I see it, if Lallana progresses like is expected and snapped up by a Premier side for a good transfer fee we will likely be able to replace him with a good acadamy player loan whilst our 16 & 17 year olds are progressing in the acadamy.

 

Our acadamy will be more attractive to newcomers and our club attractive for blooding good Premier club youngsters.

 

In the meantime, just may be enough will progress together in the next few seasons to get us back with the big boys.

 

A good idea as long as it's done sensibly and doesn't result in relegation.

 

In my opinion you should always play your best team regardless of age, if you are leaving out a better player just because you hope the kid will develop and be worth more you are asking for trouble.

[derry]

Thrusting young players into the first team isn't developing them. For some of them, we may be doing more harm than good. Take Gillett for example. Started the season strong, but now the going is tough, there are very few wise heads to turn to and he is struggling. Same with DMG, White, James and other youngsters to a varying extent.

 

People will only queue up to pay for youngsters if they are good enough, not because they have been in the first team all year. If this team continues to play like this for the rest of the season, we'd probably get £1.5m for Lallana, maybe £500k for DMG, MS and Holmes... that's pretty much it.

 

You have also completely ignored the appaling state of our first team. Imagine this lot now, without the players above. Not only would we be relegated, but we would keep sliding downwards and in 2 years be fighting the drop to League 2.

 

Parents sending their kids to our accademy... given choice, would you rather send your kids to a League 1/2 accademy or someone like Spuds, Villa or Middlesborough?

 

Kids are not the answer. You can blood maybe 3 or 4 into a good team each season. Having 8, 2 free transfers at centre half and a goalie is just suicide.

 

Maybe best to wait and see how this pans out, as your crystal ball is no better than mine.

[Arizona]

Maybe best to wait and see how this pans out, as your crystal ball is no better than mine.

 

I guess we'll find out in time. I just don't think that forcing a load of kids into the first team and selling the best ones makes for a strong football team.

 

Which part of my post do you disagree with anyway?

[Whitey Grandad]

Who knows. It has been a massive money spinner. £30m - £35m in the last 3 years.

That seems a lot. Care to elaborate?

[Arizona]

That seems a lot. Care to elaborate?

 

Walcott - c£10m

Bale - £10m

Baird - £3m

Best - £600k

Cranie - £600k

Blackstock - £600k

 

I make that around £25m since we sold Bridge.

[Navyred]

The four lads I think will do the biz for us from last seasons Academy crop are definitely White, Paterson, Hatch and Mills. All will get a game this season - but I think all four will be heavily involved next season - whatever league we are in!! From the current batch, Racine, Argent, Gobern and especially Mclaggan. We do have some outstanding talent at this club. Lets keep our fingers crossed that JP keeps to his word!

[um pahars]

The four lads I think will do the biz for us from last seasons Academy crop are definitely White, Paterson, Hatch and Mills. All will get a game this season -

 

I think a couple of those could be in with a shout this afternoon, if not over the coming few weeks.

 

I think it's great to see young, home grown talent come through, but they must be nurtured, protected and played in a team where they get support from some seasoned pros (particularly in this league which is really physical and suffers from shyi7te referees!!!!).

[saint_bert]

if the academy was/is to be our saviour would we not be flying high with the likes of Wolves/Birmingham right now?...

 

The spin at the start of the season was that Youth was the new dawn and would guide us toward promotion, somehow I think not with the start we have had...

 

Playing attractive football and losing, would much rather see crap football with points on the board!

 

If people were blinded by words about promotion then thats their damn fault imo. No right minded person can honestly beleve we were going to get promoted this season??

[LaptopSaint]

You'll never field a stable 11, they will break through, shine, then get snapped up by the highest bidder. No hope of the team fully developing, it would be soul destroying.

 

Sadly, that's the position we're in.

 

But I think the way the chairman handles it will be critical -- ie how long do the good young'uns stay until we cash in.

 

If he's fit there are bound to be some inquiries if not bids for Lallana in January. Fulham and perhaps others. But if he goes that quickly -- after just half a season in the first team -- then the future looks really grim.

 

With Theo we didn't have any choice. With Adam, and others, we do in terms of contracts. So unless the bank are literally kicking the door in, I hope Lallana stays for at least this season and next.

 

Big test of the board's long term intentions/ambitions IMO.

[derry]

I guess we'll find out in time. I just don't think that forcing a load of kids into the first team and selling the best ones makes for a strong football team.

 

Which part of my post do you disagree with anyway?

 

I don't really have any disagreements, there are all sorts of views, however I think we have the chosen path of the club to live with at this time. I'm not into perfect scenarios, we have only what the management have decided to do.

 

It would be nice to bring through talent and have enough GOOD players to help them out. That would be ideal in the circumstances.

 

I just happen to think that whilst not ideal, looking on the positive side, the consequences could produce better recruitment in the future.

 

I do however like the type of football they play. I also think they will, given a few positive results, improve immeasureably.

[derry]

Walcott - c£10m

Bale - £10m

Baird - £3m

Best - £600k

Cranie - £600k

Blackstock - £600k

 

I make that around £25m since we sold Bridge.

 

Whilst not strictly academy, I included Jones, plus Mills.

[Arizona]

Whilst not strictly academy, I included Jones, plus Mills.

 

Mills yes, another c£600k tribunal fee I'm guessing.

 

Jones we signed 3 months before his 20th birthday, so to call him an accademy product would be some way off the mark.

[Whitey Grandad]

Walcott - c£10m

Bale - £10m

Baird - £3m

Best - £600k

Cranie - £600k

Blackstock - £600k

 

I make that around £25m since we sold Bridge.

Ta for that. Bale & Walcott have worked out at less than that because of the early payment settlements,so we are looking at about £23m to £24m. The next question is how much does the academy cost to run? Then there are the secondary effects, e.g. does trying to develop these youngsters by playing them in the first team have a detrimental effect on the playing performances in the league? Would it be better to form a settled first team from a variety of sources?

[Gordon Mockles]

Just an thought. Usually clubs develop maybe one even two players in a season sometimes none at all.

 

If we managed to bring through say 5 or 6 with others queuing up to play, that could really work in our favour.

 

Once word gets out that we are getting a lot of youngsters into the first team, it could be, that high quality youngsters/parents will see the odds on their sons making it shorten, and want to come here. Also players like Pekart/Cork etc.

 

In theory, the idea of bringing on youth is good but it’s not a recipe to success in the manner in which Lowe has so whole-heartedly, naively and arrogantly jumped in the proverbial deep end, disregarding advice and lessons learnt from the past. I feel the St Mary’s board have entirely neglected warnings from predecessors (both staff – coaches and otherwise) and disposed of many of these obstacles. I don’t want politics to rear too much of an appearance but it’s certainly relevant in this case. We have disposed of virtually all our successful players and totally committed to the youth, without a seconds thought. They’ve not even used to the loan system to bring in steadying, older/more experienced pros (I concur, Cork is a good acquisition from what I’ve seen but Pullis and injured players is risky and stupid).

 

I think we need to maintain the academy as it’s the life-blood of our club but the selling off of experienced professionals, such as Davies, Safri, esq. is both rash and fool hardy. Whilst I don’t deny, we have potential rising stars in Lallana, Schneidrlin and possible one or two others (bare in mind the promising youngsters like Cork, Pekhart, Gasmi are all loans), I don’t think thrusting them into a season like the long and arduous CCC is the way to approach it. Well, I take that back – it is good to play them and have them compete but, from history, not to rely too heavily on them as once they hit form, January is here and an offer comes in, they’re sold and you alienate a drastically falling fan base even more. Maybe it’s too late anyway. We all know the youth system is a farm. But, to what cost? We have virtually no-one left and what do we do once our last shining stars have gone? We’re left with…literally – NOTHING! Bare in mind it takes time to bring on the youth and no matter how hard you want someone to succeed, you can’t rush the scholars along and make them step up too quickly – if that was the case, every other club would adopt this ‘forward thinking policy’.

 

For what it’s worth, I think Pearson had a good spirit in the squad and knew the English league and would have done well this season, if allowed the limited resources he requested – look at his start with Leicester. Still, that’s history. Poorvliet seems a good character with a good heart and at one with the youngsters but the games have shown he is adapting to our league (do we have time?) and his tactics may need to be changed as they’re not working and we’ve been easily figured out. I’d like 2 strikers as the current system is not working. We are very weak defensively (as I feared from day one – Surman is NOT cut out to play LB) and we have a lack of defenders and full backs – a huge mistake from the onset and yet another lesson which has not been learnt. Ok, I’m a fan but I feel (and I’m not alone) the full back issue was evident from day one and a stupid gamble (especially relying on Svensson – plain suicide and another lesson not learnt with Michael…again!) It’s proving the case a month or so into the season. I dread the state of the squad come new year. IMHO we totally lack firepower, have nowhere near enough men in the box (i.e. crosses coming in and only Mc Goldrick available, who is more often than not NOT in the area, causing a nuisance). I feel Jan has noticed some worrying trends, judging by statements and a shift in direction and wanting to swap players. It looks slightly desperate – I hope it isn’t. I believe Dave Mc Goldrick is poor and not up to it. I thought this previously but time has proved that. He may serve a purpose playing wide or behind the front man but relying on an unproven striker who had never made an impression or impact previously was stupid. He just doesn’t have that presence and killer instinct, his positioning alone. Could all the managers and coaches before been wrong? Lowe/Wilde seem to think so (or the shadowy Director of Football!)

 

I believe, no offence Derry, you’ve swallowed the BS that Lowe and co have served. I don’t believe we had that many capable players. I believe we have some talent and we’ve a good history, but the system we have requires talented players and it’s a new set-up. I feel we need specialist players in positions, like ball winning, quick and nimble wing backs (Surman couldn’t be further from that). Some players can be moulded but some are just so clearly lacking in the attributes, it’s becoming quite apparent. Still, let’s concentrate on the better players and hope, somehow, Wotte and Jan can fill these gaps but I’m scared someone else is making decisions above their heads…Hockaday, Lowe? Who knows but it’s easy to guess. What the hell was Lowe doing pitch-side on the Sky game against QPR?! He dare not do that at St Mary’s. I thought directors take care of the business side eh?!

 

Let’s hope today proves me wrong on some of those points anyway. COYS!

[derry]

In theory, the idea of bringing on youth is good but it’s not a recipe to success in the manner in which Lowe has so whole-heartedly, naively and arrogantly jumped in the proverbial deep end, disregarding advice and lessons learnt from the past. I feel the St Mary’s board have entirely neglected warnings from predecessors (both staff – coaches and otherwise) and disposed of many of these obstacles. I don’t want politics to rear too much of an appearance but it’s certainly relevant in this case. We have disposed of virtually all our successful players and totally committed to the youth, without a seconds thought. They’ve not even used to the loan system to bring in steadying, older/more experienced pros (I concur, Cork is a good acquisition from what I’ve seen but Pullis and injured players is risky and stupid).

 

I think we need to maintain the academy as it’s the life-blood of our club but the selling off of experienced professionals, such as Davies, Safri, esq. is both rash and fool hardy. Whilst I don’t deny, we have potential rising stars in Lallana, Schneidrlin and possible one or two others (bare in mind the promising youngsters like Cork, Pekhart, Gasmi are all loans), I don’t think thrusting them into a season like the long and arduous CCC is the way to approach it. Well, I take that back – it is good to play them and have them compete but, from history, not to rely too heavily on them as once they hit form, January is here and an offer comes in, they’re sold and you alienate a drastically falling fan base even more. Maybe it’s too late anyway. We all know the youth system is a farm. But, to what cost? We have virtually no-one left and what do we do once our last shining stars have gone? We’re left with…literally – NOTHING! Bare in mind it takes time to bring on the youth and no matter how hard you want someone to succeed, you can’t rush the scholars along and make them step up too quickly – if that was the case, every other club would adopt this ‘forward thinking policy’.

 

For what it’s worth, I think Pearson had a good spirit in the squad and knew the English league and would have done well this season, if allowed the limited resources he requested – look at his start with Leicester. Still, that’s history. Poorvliet seems a good character with a good heart and at one with the youngsters but the games have shown he is adapting to our league (do we have time?) and his tactics may need to be changed as they’re not working and we’ve been easily figured out. I’d like 2 strikers as the current system is not working. We are very weak defensively (as I feared from day one – Surman is NOT cut out to play LB) and we have a lack of defenders and full backs – a huge mistake from the onset and yet another lesson which has not been learnt. Ok, I’m a fan but I feel (and I’m not alone) the full back issue was evident from day one and a stupid gamble (especially relying on Svensson – plain suicide and another lesson not learnt with Michael…again!) It’s proving the case a month or so into the season. I dread the state of the squad come new year. IMHO we totally lack firepower, have nowhere near enough men in the box (i.e. crosses coming in and only Mc Goldrick available, who is more often than not NOT in the area, causing a nuisance). I feel Jan has noticed some worrying trends, judging by statements and a shift in direction and wanting to swap players. It looks slightly desperate – I hope it isn’t. I believe Dave Mc Goldrick is poor and not up to it. I thought this previously but time has proved that. He may serve a purpose playing wide or behind the front man but relying on an unproven striker who had never made an impression or impact previously was stupid. He just doesn’t have that presence and killer instinct, his positioning alone. Could all the managers and coaches before been wrong? Lowe/Wilde seem to think so (or the shadowy Director of Football!)

 

I believe, no offence Derry, you’ve swallowed the BS that Lowe and co have served. I don’t believe we had that many capable players. I believe we have some talent and we’ve a good history, but the system we have requires talented players and it’s a new set-up. I feel we need specialist players in positions, like ball winning, quick and nimble wing backs (Surman couldn’t be further from that). Some players can be moulded but some are just so clearly lacking in the attributes, it’s becoming quite apparent. Still, let’s concentrate on the better players and hope, somehow, Wotte and Jan can fill these gaps but I’m scared someone else is making decisions above their heads…Hockaday, Lowe? Who knows but it’s easy to guess. What the hell was Lowe doing pitch-side on the Sky game against QPR?! He dare not do that at St Mary’s. I thought directors take care of the business side eh?!

 

Let’s hope today proves me wrong on some of those points anyway. COYS!

 

 

I think what you have said is valid, however my point was the possible improvement in quality recruitment for the academy in the future, not present players.

 

Also to get in good young loans / free transfers eg, Pekart/Holmes players with no chance of breaking through at their present clubs.

[OldNick]

Going down this route was not the only option, so let's put that one to bed straight away (for instance we could have gone with Pearson, we could have used the Scheiderlin fee to pay for some experienced pros etc etc et).

 

.

500k would not have got us experienced pros.

[um pahars]

500k would not have got us experienced pros.

 

From todays match I wonder how much Darren Moore cost Barnsley and we had Wotton & Perry playing.

 

Don't be so naive.

[OldNick]

From todays match I wonder how much Darren Moore cost Barnsley and we had Wotton & Perry playing.

 

Don't be so naive.

For someone who claims to be savvy Im surprised at that comment.I have tried to be civil but it doesnt seem to work.

500K would be the fee and of course Moore being at Derby would mean he was on a decent wage.Can you quantify that 1 more would be enough then? I would say we would need at least 3 more to make a real difference and a 500k saving owuld go near that.Unless you know better about signing on fees and wages for players off loaded by PL top CCC clubs.