Mr X Posted 25 September, 2008 Share Posted 25 September, 2008 Does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965onwards Posted 25 September, 2008 Share Posted 25 September, 2008 Total football works in every league. Not neccessarily in every game,but over a season a truly footballing team will do well. I don't think our youngsters are up to playing like the dutch masters,but they are capable of doing much better than they are doing at the moment. The real question is : why has their perfromance levels dropped so dramatically? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 25 September, 2008 Share Posted 25 September, 2008 I dont know why I have bothered replying, but it does sometimes it doesnt other. We have a fan base that expects victory with style,if the style fails we want victory with ugliness.Sadly it is hard to provide it in any form.I myself still enjoy watching the ball being played on the ground and with intricacy.Sometimes it fails (a lot recently) but when it flows it looks damned good. I am happy to stay up and if we manage that and play good football then thats fine by me. Next season we will then be older tougher and better plsaced to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxy Posted 25 September, 2008 Share Posted 25 September, 2008 It can work or fail. No different from the HOOF approach really. At least it's better to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopGun Posted 25 September, 2008 Share Posted 25 September, 2008 The alternative is to play a 442 system with mediocre players like so many other teams which is no more than a lottery each week. I prefer to see JP experimenting with a view to more attractive longer term prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 25 September, 2008 Author Share Posted 25 September, 2008 Total football works in every league. Not neccessarily in every game,but over a season a truly footballing team will do well. I don't think our youngsters are up to playing like the dutch masters,but they are capable of doing much better than they are doing at the moment. The real question is : why has their perfromance levels dropped so dramatically? I think it's a combination of the knock on effect of deafeats severely affecting confidence, and the fact that some of them don't believe the system is right, you can see that players really aren't sure what there set positions are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRichmond Posted 25 September, 2008 Share Posted 25 September, 2008 Total football works in every league. Not neccessarily in every game,but over a season a truly footballing team will do well. I don't think our youngsters are up to playing like the dutch masters,but they are capable of doing much better than they are doing at the moment. The real question is : why has their perfromance levels dropped so dramatically? Because they have not had an experienced CCC Goalscorer, to finish off all the great total football build up play. If they had rounded off some of those moves with the ball in the back of the net, then perhaps they may have seen where they were going. All they are seeing at the moment, is all their hard grafted approach football going to waste because of the lack of finishing it off. Over a period of time, your confidence GOES ..... and that is what has started to happen Unless Lowe acknowledges that, and insists on playing approach football ( that IS good to watch ), we will have more and more defeats because, at the end of the day .... GOALS win matches WAKE UP Lowe ...... or admit you were wrong in the first place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solentstars Posted 25 September, 2008 Share Posted 25 September, 2008 I dont know why I have bothered replying, but it does sometimes it doesnt other. We have a fan base that expects victory with style,if the style fails we want victory with ugliness.Sadly it is hard to provide it in any form.I myself still enjoy watching the ball being played on the ground and with intricacy.Sometimes it fails (a lot recently) but when it flows it looks damned good. I am happy to stay up and if we manage that and play good football then thats fine by me. Next season we will then be older tougher and better plsaced to move on. good post thats how i see it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solentstars Posted 25 September, 2008 Share Posted 25 September, 2008 It can work or fail. No different from the HOOF approach really. At least it's better to watch. i agree but you can see the hoofers do not like it but if we had the same start under a hoofer style manager the gates would have gone under 10,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicko Posted 25 September, 2008 Share Posted 25 September, 2008 What I watched against Blackpool and Barnsley was most definitely not total football. one-dimensional football with players playing out of position and a lack of plan B is a mouthful though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Ron fan Posted 25 September, 2008 Share Posted 25 September, 2008 Because they have not had an experienced CCC Goalscorer, to finish off all the great total football build up play. If they had rounded off some of those moves with the ball in the back of the net, then perhaps they may have seen where they were going. All they are seeing at the moment, is all their hard grafted approach football going to waste because of the lack of finishing it off. Over a period of time, your confidence GOES ..... and that is what has started to happen Unless Lowe acknowledges that, and insists on playing approach football ( that IS good to watch ), we will have more and more defeats because, at the end of the day .... GOALS win matches WAKE UP Lowe ...... or admit you were wrong in the first place His name is Stern John and for some reason he's only being used as a bit-part player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpb Posted 25 September, 2008 Share Posted 25 September, 2008 I don't think that we are actually playing 'total football' - that at would imply that the players are changing positions in such a way that the centre half turns up on the right wing and is quite comfortable there. We are trying to play a passing game though - and long may it last! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halo Stickman Posted 25 September, 2008 Share Posted 25 September, 2008 Total football works in every league. Not neccessarily in every game,but over a season a truly footballing team will do well. I don't think our youngsters are up to playing like the dutch masters,but they are capable of doing much better than they are doing at the moment. The real question is : why has their perfromance levels dropped so dramatically? As I see it, our young players - whilst showing some potential for the future – are, at the moment, much too one-dimensional and predictable, as is the system we’re playing. We seem incapable of mixing things up and trying something different when things aren’t working. The opposition quickly works out our weak spots and exploits them. This is the problem with inexperienced players, especially in this league which is full of seasoned old professionals; but teams would probably start to work out even that young Arsenal side that played on Tuesday if Wenger played them together every week, which of course he wouldn’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxy Posted 25 September, 2008 Share Posted 25 September, 2008 As I see it, our young players - whilst showing some potential for the future – are, at the moment, much too one-dimensional and predictable, as is the system we’re playing. We seem incapable of mixing things up and trying something different when things aren’t working. The opposition quickly works out our weak spots and exploits them. This is the problem with inexperienced players, especially in this league which is full of seasoned old professionals; but teams would probably start to work out even that young Arsenal side that played on Tuesday if Wenger played them together every week, which of course he wouldn’t. Difference is that Wenger has the funds to have that choice. We don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halo Stickman Posted 25 September, 2008 Share Posted 25 September, 2008 Difference is that Wenger has the funds to have that choice. We don't. Which is why I'm rather fearful for our future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alucard Posted 25 September, 2008 Share Posted 25 September, 2008 His name is Stern John and for some reason he's only being used as a bit-part player. Unfortunately Stern John is the one who missed a great chance to put us 2-0 up against Brum in the league match, missed a good chance to equalise against Blackpool and looked totally inept against Ipswich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crouchie's Lawyer Posted 25 September, 2008 Share Posted 25 September, 2008 Stoke, Hull, Derby. All teams who have been promoted of recent. All who DO NOT adopt the total football approach. I think this goes some way to answering the question. The CCC is typically a harder league. Obviously the players in the prem have the perfect timings when it comes to taclking. Are better finishers of the ball , better passers etc. This is why they are prem players. CCC players are a little slower. Maybe not as good at passing or tackling. To compensate for this, you have to use your brain a little more and if this mean's hoofing the ball behind 'Gary the Giant' centre back as you know you are quicker than him, but he is stronger than you so you have to partake in a one on one race which you know you will win, then so be it. This is why the 'hoof' is quite successful in this league. I would love total football to work. I love watching teams like Arsenal and Man Ure demolish other teams with their fast flowing skillfull football, but im afraid this just is not us. Our youthful players are not big and strong and without the experience either, all bigger CCC players just stamp out our attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintjay77 Posted 25 September, 2008 Share Posted 25 September, 2008 Because they have not had an experienced CCC Goalscorer, to finish off all the great total football build up play. If they had rounded off some of those moves with the ball in the back of the net, then perhaps they may have seen where they were going. All they are seeing at the moment, is all their hard grafted approach football going to waste because of the lack of finishing it off. Over a period of time, your confidence GOES ..... and that is what has started to happen Unless Lowe acknowledges that, and insists on playing approach football ( that IS good to watch ), we will have more and more defeats because, at the end of the day .... GOALS win matches WAKE UP Lowe ...... or admit you were wrong in the first place Yeah Rupert Lowe you smelly evil child eating thingy you. Get back in the dressing room and go over your tactics with the boys again and this time dont tell them to play crap or get injured. While you there explain to them what approach football is cause im sure you will know it better than any manager you and the board ever put in place. Jan will be a good boy and sit at the computer looking at 2 dutch blondes and a donkey while you manage the line up and polish the kids boots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintjay77 Posted 25 September, 2008 Share Posted 25 September, 2008 I dont know why I have bothered replying, but it does sometimes it doesnt other. We have a fan base that expects victory with style,if the style fails we want victory with ugliness.Sadly it is hard to provide it in any form.I myself still enjoy watching the ball being played on the ground and with intricacy.Sometimes it fails (a lot recently) but when it flows it looks damned good. I am happy to stay up and if we manage that and play good football then thats fine by me. Next season we will then be older tougher and better plsaced to move on. Only thing I disagree with that is the next season bit. If revenue doesnt improve we will have to sell off more silver than we hoped to keep the bank happy. I think the plan was the team would be good enough to produce exciting football that people will want to come and watch. The poor results and the annoyence that people have with all things going wrong at the club is down to Rupes is keeping people away. If the team can bag a few wins together and get some confidence back and some players back from injury then they may turn the tide and draw a few more bums on seats. IMO we need nearer 20,000 for home matches for us to be in a position next sumer where we dont "Have" to sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNSUN Posted 25 September, 2008 Share Posted 25 September, 2008 Attractive football is good, but it's not the be all and end all. If we win 1-0 every game, with a dire performance and the ball bouncing into the net off Stern John's erect penis, then I'll be happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperm_john Posted 25 September, 2008 Share Posted 25 September, 2008 Unfortunately Stern John is the one who missed a great chance to put us 2-0 up against Brum in the league match, missed a good chance to equalise against Blackpool and looked totally inept against Ipswich i dissagree, sperm john is exactly what we need at the moment, strength, ability, goals... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solentstars Posted 25 September, 2008 Share Posted 25 September, 2008 Stoke, Hull, Derby. All teams who have been promoted of recent. All who DO NOT adopt the total football approach. I think this goes some way to answering the question. The CCC is typically a harder league. Obviously the players in the prem have the perfect timings when it comes to taclking. Are better finishers of the ball , better passers etc. This is why they are prem players. CCC players are a little slower. Maybe not as good at passing or tackling. To compensate for this, you have to use your brain a little more and if this mean's hoofing the ball behind 'Gary the Giant' centre back as you know you are quicker than him, but he is stronger than you so you have to partake in a one on one race which you know you will win, then so be it. This is why the 'hoof' is quite successful in this league. I would love total football to work. I love watching teams like Arsenal and Man Ure demolish other teams with their fast flowing skillfull football, but im afraid this just is not us. Our youthful players are not big and strong and without the experience either, all bigger CCC players just stamp out our attacks.so if we stoped our youngsters playing football and went to lobbing over a giant centre half,we would get better results in this league and our youngsters would benifit from this style.oh its so easy i did not realise that .hull and stoke did not playtotal football or hoofball last season they mixed it up and at hull last season they outpassed us at hull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRichmond Posted 25 September, 2008 Share Posted 25 September, 2008 Does it? If you have the players with enough Quality and experience .... Yes If you have the players with enough Quality, but NO experience .... No We have Young Quality players, but with not enough "experienced Pro's " to guide them ....... and they are currently being hung out to dry ........ which is a terrible shame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick1976.4.38 Posted 25 September, 2008 Share Posted 25 September, 2008 If we had a striker that hit the back of the net with the chances weve had,wed be ok but unfortunately cos we havent our total football isnt looking good at the moment.a couple of wins and hopefuly things will get better,coyr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 25 September, 2008 Share Posted 25 September, 2008 If you have the players with enough Quality and experience .... Yes If you have the players with enough Quality, but NO experience .... No We have Young Quality players, but with not enough "experienced Pro's " to guide them ....... and they are currently being hung out to dry ........ which is a terrible shame Aren't being hung out to dry, they're injured for the most part.If we'd have had Davis instead of that joker Bart on Tuesday we might just be less dispirited today.If we'd had Thomas available in defence, if we'd been able to play Euell or Holmes in midfield instead of the trash duo,it might have been so different. If Skacel isn't playing there's a reason,if it was a question of money John wouldn't be playing either. Skacel was in the squad on Tuesday, he didn't play.There must be a reason for that,and I don't think it's got anything to do with money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRichmond Posted 25 September, 2008 Share Posted 25 September, 2008 Aren't being hung out to dry, they're injured for the most part.If we'd have had Davis instead of that joker Bart on Tuesday we might just be less dispirited today.If we'd had Thomas available in defence, if we'd been able to play Euell or Holmes in midfield instead of the trash duo,it might have been so different. If Skacel isn't playing there's a reason,if it was a question of money John wouldn't be playing either. Skacel was in the squad on Tuesday, he didn't play.There must be a reason for that,and I don't think it's got anything to do with money. ????? The Young players that I have been watching since the start of the season ARE being hung out to dry ..... I'm not on about the injured ones. You go on about If If If .... but the reality was that the Eleven who DID play, were not, on the night, equal to a Team Two Leagues lower. Have you not played in a Football Team yourself ?? Even at School level ??? Winning breeds a winning mentality ... Losing breeds a losing one Irrespective of whether Bart should have played or not, or the mystery about Skacel ....... whatever Saints Team is fielded ARE getting into the Losing habit And IF you are hinting at SFC not being interested in the Carling Cup, then that is even MORE bad Business sense ........ A home tie v Man Utd would have brought in a few pennies to aid Lowe's Legacy surely Think it through again my friend. The confidence of the Team has been visibly draining with every match that is played, and that is echoed by the failing confidence of us Customers who go along to watch in ever decreasing numbers I repeat that IMHO, the very very good Young players HAVE, and ARE, being hung out to dry .... like Lambs to the Slaughter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintjay77 Posted 25 September, 2008 Share Posted 25 September, 2008 ????? The Young players that I have been watching since the start of the season ARE being hung out to dry ..... I'm not on about the injured ones. You go on about If If If .... but the reality was that the Eleven who DID play, were not, on the night, equal to a Team Two Leagues lower. Have you not played in a Football Team yourself ?? Even at School level ??? Winning breeds a winning mentality ... Losing breeds a losing one Irrespective of whether Bart should have played or not, or the mystery about Skacel ....... whatever Saints Team is fielded ARE getting into the Losing habit And IF you are hinting at SFC not being interested in the Carling Cup, then that is even MORE bad Business sense ........ A home tie v Man Utd would have brought in a few pennies to aid Lowe's Legacy surely Think it through again my friend. The confidence of the Team has been visibly draining with every match that is played, and that is echoed by the failing confidence of us Customers who go along to watch in ever decreasing numbers I repeat that IMHO, the very very good Young players HAVE, and ARE, being hung out to dry .... like Lambs to the Slaughter Personally I think your off your head. No-one is suggesting that Saints are not interested in the Carling Cup and in all fairness that is something that us fans say when getting knocked out of any cup. Had we won we would start talking about great cup matches and how it would be nice to win some silverware. you haven't explained how you think our team is being hung out to dry either. true enough the team that played were outplayed by a team 2 divsions lower than them. But half of those that played were 1st team regulars last season and should have known better than to only show up for a 20 min spell. i agree with you on the confidence thing and if they could string a few wins together there confidence would grow and we could see more from them because of it. but they are still far from being hung out to dry. They have been given a chance to play 1st team football and to develop as players. This is something that they wont get anywhere else due to the old pros flooding teams. Maybe the balance is not right and maybe we are missing a few key players (the ones we are missing are kids to mind) but they are all we have got. they are not playing to make an example like redcrap did with the kids. they have been give the chance to shine and when things are not going right they need guidence and support rather than blame and tantrums. jan tells it how it is and will point out when players make mistakes and latly has pointed out when players are not putting the required effort in. but he also gives these kids a chance because he knows they will make mistakes and he knows they have a lot to learn. Its something they have to come through together as there is no option of bringing the old guys back and let the kids sit it out. If they can get through it and turn the corner they will be stronger because of it. In the mean time get off there backs and let them know when they are doing good and except that they will fook things up from time to time. SMS is hardly a place to go and build confidence at the moment with an over half empty stadium and fans that are ready to vent there spleins at the slightest cok up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 25 September, 2008 Share Posted 25 September, 2008 When we had wide players, playing wide we played well. Every time we have played badly, the wide players, especially McGoldrick played where they liked and totally messed up the system. Wide means on the touchline, not down the middle or on the other wing. JP has said this after every game, A tray of teacups hitting the wall may be a better point maker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven on the wing Posted 25 September, 2008 Share Posted 25 September, 2008 One thing is certain, if our so called total football isnot working now, it certainly wont when the pitches cut up and theres a gale of wind / heavy rain "oop north" in mid winter ! Try passing out of defence then and see how many we goals we give away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRichmond Posted 25 September, 2008 Share Posted 25 September, 2008 When we had wide players, playing wide we played well. Every time we have played badly, the wide players, especially McGoldrick played where they liked and totally messed up the system. Wide means on the touchline, not down the middle or on the other wing. JP has said this after every game, A tray of teacups hitting the wall may be a better point maker. So, if as you say, some players are NOT playing to orders ....... whose fault is that then ??? Only one answer to that ...Jan Poortvliet ........ if HIS instructions are being ignored by certain players, that, IMHO, demonstrates just how much RESPECT they have for their Manager He is in charge of the Team, so you cannot call it any other way Purely as an example ......... if those self same players had gone against what Pearson's orders were, .... he'd have had their guts for garters ....... IMHO, against all the odds, Pearson kept us up last term, and it is yet another tragedy that Lowe's "I know everything" Ego prevented him from continuing as our Manager this Season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 25 September, 2008 Share Posted 25 September, 2008 So, if as you say, some players are NOT playing to orders ....... whose fault is that then ??? Only one answer to that ...Jan Poortvliet ........ if HIS instructions are being ignored by certain players, that, IMHO, demonstrates just how much RESPECT they have for their Manager He is in charge of the Team, so you cannot call it any other way Purely as an example ......... if those self same players had gone against what Pearson's orders were, .... he'd have had their guts for garters ....... IMHO, against all the odds, Pearson kept us up last term, and it is yet another tragedy that Lowe's "I know everything" Ego prevented him from continuing as our Manager this Season Don't be daft Richmond, it's not a lack of respect, it's a lack of savoir faire and intelligence. Some of our player obviously aren't the sharpest tools in the box and they don't understand what they've to do. Not because the coach is incapable of explaining it to them but because they're incapable of understanding point. What's he to do ? drop them_oh yeh and replace them with who? the youth team, nah we've already done that. We have a squad of 29 players,about 9 are injured or can't perform every game.Jan has a couple of one trick ponies who can only do one thing and they always gravitate towards that. BWP, Dyer and McGoldrick, Jan said so after the Barnsley game. He has no option but for to play them that all.We have too many games in a short time for the severely limited squad we have that's all. Thanks a bunch international week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintjay77 Posted 25 September, 2008 Share Posted 25 September, 2008 So, if as you say, some players are NOT playing to orders ....... whose fault is that then ??? Only one answer to that ...Jan Poortvliet ........ if HIS instructions are being ignored by certain players, that, IMHO, demonstrates just how much RESPECT they have for their Manager He is in charge of the Team, so you cannot call it any other way Purely as an example ......... if those self same players had gone against what Pearson's orders were, .... he'd have had their guts for garters ....... IMHO, against all the odds, Pearson kept us up last term, and it is yet another tragedy that Lowe's "I know everything" Ego prevented him from continuing as our Manager this Season Jan is in charge of the team? Did I miss something? I thought you have said that was Rupes job? I like the way you are comparing jan to Pearson when Jan has had half as many games of which 2 have been won. How many games did we win under Pearson? Truth be told Jan and Pearson have completly different tasks and pressures and who knows how each would cope in each situation? I liked Pearson, I liked how he seemed to get the team working harder. But I also like Jan for accepting the financial situation as it is and working with what he has got. I like what he is trying to do and only hope that the players can get to grips with it. I really like his honesty when being interviewed. If he was nothing more than a yes man Rupes would do his nut every times jan opens his mouth. 1 more thing...... Why ....Do .....You ....Need ....To .... Put ....So ..... Many ....Full ....Stops ....In? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offix Posted 25 September, 2008 Share Posted 25 September, 2008 Total Football worked in the seventies, and even then only with very talented players. It's not the seventies anymore, and we don't have that kind of talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Matt Posted 25 September, 2008 Share Posted 25 September, 2008 As far back as I can remember, only Reading, Sunderland and arguably West Brom have been promoted by playing football, as opposed to lumping the ball up front for big men chase, the style favoured by Watford, Sheffield United, Stoke, etc. Whichever you lview it, it's not looking good for us is it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 25 September, 2008 Share Posted 25 September, 2008 Does it? The simple answer is no it does not work as we are not getting wins. Nice to watch but not enough end product. As has been said over and over, we must have a blend of experience and youth who can play not top heavy with youth as it is a moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 25 September, 2008 Share Posted 25 September, 2008 Does it? Not with kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Steve Posted 25 September, 2008 Share Posted 25 September, 2008 younger players are just not as experienced or physically and mentally developed so will tire more under the pressure. I find it a little surprising though that after so much preparation they seem to experience this problem so much. it is probable that some are just not quite good enough and also need more experienced players in key positions. Lowe is not in this place so we had better get used to it:rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronCitySaint Posted 25 September, 2008 Share Posted 25 September, 2008 As far back as I can remember, only Reading, Sunderland and arguably West Brom have been promoted by playing football, as opposed to lumping the ball up front for big men chase, the style favoured by Watford, Sheffield United, Stoke, etc. Whichever you lview it, it's not looking good for us is it ? The positive side of this being those three clubs you mention generally have given a better account of themselves once they got to the top flight compared to Derby, Watford, etc. Still, us getting there with these players is not very likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalek2003 Posted 25 September, 2008 Share Posted 25 September, 2008 Win at all costs, any way and by whatever means. That should be our priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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