Transparency

[Minty]

This thread is not to debate the relative merits or otherwise of any particular decision made by the club recently... just want to make that clear because often threads get diverted too easily.

 

However, whether you agree or disagree with some of the aforementioned decisions, one thing that surely no one can deny is that very little transparency from the club, if any at all.

 

Some will, quite rightly, say that it is the clubs perogative to say what they want, and they are not required to be transparent. Some frankly don't care what they do as long as we win on the pitch. Maybe when I was younger, I might've been one of those.

 

But not now. In my management experience, people may disagree with your decisions, but as long as you explain why a decision was reached, people can respect that and deal with it.

 

I respect Cortese's desire to run the club as he sees fit, and I have no doubt that everything he does, he does because he believes it is for the good of the club. However, I strongly believe that he would help himself and the club if he showed us fans some respect, and explained why decisions were made.

 

I don't expect, nor want, us to always agree on what he does, just as long as I can respect the reasoning or intentions behind doing so.

[alpine_saint]

Wow, another fred....

[hypochondriac]

Minty that is exactly what I have been trying to say for weeks. The lack of explanation is the most worrying part. I am sure that we were promised greater transparency around the time of the takeover. Does anyone have a link to any quote? Might be useful for the fans forum.

[Saint Billy]

Yep, I agree with that, but I dont think NC will though.

[Whitey Grandad]

'Never apologise, never explain'

 

( http://www.famousquotes.com/show/1024256/ )

[alpine_saint]

Maybe NC :

 

- was put off the transparency approach by the fan base being fronted by the likes of Illingsworth

- has become a little dictatorial in backroom staff dealings (if really is the case) because of too much familiarity and lack of professionality

- has become very strict about staff leaks because of all the sh*t-stirring ITK hangers-on

 

As long as he gets the results on the pitch, I dont care. And as long as he does something about it if those results are not forthcoming, I dont care.

 

SFC is no longer a public limited company listed in the City, FFS. It doesnt have to answer to ANYONE. Do you tell Steve Jobs how to design iPods, FFS ?

[hypochondriac]

Maybe NC :

 

- was put off the transparency approach by the fan base being fronted by the likes of Illingsworth

- has become a little dictatorial in backroom staff dealings (if really is the case) because of too much familiarity and lack of professionality

- has become very strict about staff leaks because of all the sh*t-stirring ITK hangers-on

 

As long as he gets the results on the pitch, I dont care. And as long as he does something about it if those results are not forthcoming, I dont care.

 

SFC is no longer a public limited company listed in the City, FFS. It doesnt have to answer to ANYONE.Do you tell Steve Jobs how to design iPods, FFS ?

 

Ultimately it does have to answer to the fans, the same as apple has to answer to its customers.

[alpine_saint]

Ultimately it does have to answer to the fans, the same as apple has to answer to its customers.

 

Right, so people will stop buying iPods.

 

So if you are really so p*ssed off, dont go to games, or dont buy that third pie, or dont buy your replica kit.

[Whitey Grandad]

Maybe NC :

 

- was put off the transparency approach by the fan base being fronted by the likes of Illingsworth

- has become a little dictatorial in backroom staff dealings (if really is the case) because of too much familiarity and lack of professionality

- has become very strict about staff leaks because of all the sh*t-stirring ITK hangers-on

 

As long as he gets the results on the pitch, I dont care. And as long as he does something about it if those results are not forthcoming, I dont care.

 

SFC is no longer a public limited company listed in the City, FFS. It doesnt have to answer to ANYONE. Do you tell Steve Jobs how to design iPods, FFS ?

 

Perhaps somebody should have said something about iphone4?

[Minty]

Thanks for the bit in bold alpine... I think you'll find I covered that in my opening post, and fully accept it. I just don't think it's the right way of going about it.

 

BTW, plenty of people tell Steve Jobs their opinion of how he designs Ipods, it's up to him if he takes it on board. Constructive feedback is one of the most important learning tools available and I firmly believe those who don't accept feedback from others are far more likely to fail.

[hypochondriac]

Right, so people will stop buying iPods.

 

So if you are really so p*ssed off, dont go to games, or dont buy that third pie, or dont buy your replica kit.

 

Eventually that will be the case if it gets worse. Doesn't mean we aren't allowed to express our dissatisfaction in the meantime.

[alpine_saint]

No but Apple let customers know when product releases are happening and keep them in the loop over launches, downloads and so on. They don't ignore customers and get on with their own thing. No-one is saying Cortese HAS to answer to anyone, just that a little explanation or information would help us and HIM hugely.

 

Does the club announce transfers ?

 

Does it announce / advertise tickets ?

 

Does it advertise merchandise / corporate hospitality packages ?

[alpine_saint]

Perhaps somebody should have said something about iphone4?

 

I think you'll find the chief engineer for the iPhone 4 has parted company with Apple.

[Spudders]

This thread is not to debate the relative merits or otherwise of any particular decision made by the club recently... just want to make that clear because often threads get diverted too easily.

 

However, whether you agree or disagree with some of the aforementioned decisions, one thing that surely no one can deny is that very little transparency from the club, if any at all.

 

Some will, quite rightly, say that it is the clubs perogative to say what they want, and they are not required to be transparent. Some frankly don't care what they do as long as we win on the pitch. Maybe when I was younger, I might've been one of those.

 

But not now. In my management experience, people may disagree with your decisions, but as long as you explain why a decision was reached, people can respect that and deal with it.

 

I respect Cortese's desire to run the club as he sees fit, and I have no doubt that everything he does, he does because he believes it is for the good of the club. However, I strongly believe that he would help himself and the club if he showed us fans some respect, and explained why decisions were made.

 

I don't expect, nor want, us to always agree on what he does, just as long as I can respect the reasoning or intentions behind doing so.

 

This is pretty much what I've just said in Dunes thread.

 

Most of us are grateful to NC and ML for saving our club.

Most appreciate that sometimes difficult decisions will have to be made.

Most agree that some decisions will upset some people.

But with just a bit of communication (that was promised would happen) people would live with these decisions a lot easier.

[Whitey Grandad]

So if you are really so p*ssed off, dont go to games, or dont buy that third pie, or dont buy your replica kit.

 

Interesting you should say that. My daughter came to the match on Saturday after a long break. She wanted to buy a shirt for her two-year old son. Price?

 

 

£30 - no sale.

[explorer saint]

Minty that is exactly what I have been trying to say for weeks. The lack of explanation is the most worrying part. I am sure that we were promised greater transparency around the time of the takeover. Does anyone have a link to any quote? Might be useful for the fans forum.

 

Wasn't it last summer all ST holders were sent through the post a 'supporters charter' or something similar about returning the club to the fans and that they were they most important part of the club. What happened to that?? Seems we have gone the opposite way

[Whitey Grandad]

I think you'll find the chief engineer for the iPhone 4 has parted company with Apple.

 

I know. Isn't it refreshing to see failure rewarded?

[hypochondriac]

Thanks for the bit in bold alpine... I think you'll find I covered that in my opening post, and fully accept it. I just don't think it's the right way of going about it.

 

BTW, plenty of people tell Steve Jobs their opinion of how he designs Ipods, it's up to him if he takes it on board. Constructive feedback is one of the most important learning tools available and I firmly believe those who don't accept feedback from others are far more likely to fail.

 

Hopefully the fans forum will be uncensored so we will be able to seek answers to our questions.

[alpine_saint]

Wasn't it last summer all ST holders were sent through the post a 'supporters charter' or something similar about returning the club to the fans and that they were they most important part of the club. What happened to that?? Seems we have gone the opposite way

 

Oh come on. They all say the same f**king thing. Did you really believe it ?

 

Do you remember Mikey Wilde's "Fans Parliament" idea ?

[Minty]

Wasn't it last summer all ST holders were sent through the post a 'supporters charter' or something similar about returning the club to the fans and that they were they most important part of the club. What happened to that?? Seems we have gone the opposite way

 

To be fair to the club, they did make it clear that was for that season only.

 

However, I would question the wisdom of making such a promise, and then not continuing it.

[Minty]

Oh come on. They all say the same f**king thing. Did you really believe it ?

 

Alps, can you not at least see why I raise this issue?

 

If not, I would respectfully suggest you state your position and leave the thread, unless you want to constructively discuss it?

 

(I know, it's a lot to ask for a thread on here these days, but I live in hope...)

[alpine_saint]

Alps, can you not at least see why I raise this issue?

 

If not, I would respectfully suggest you state your position and leave the thread, unless you want to constructively discuss it?

 

(I know, it's a lot to ask for a thread on here these days, but I live in hope...)

 

I dont understand your issue with my posts. I understand why you've raised the issue, and reasonably politely pointed out why your expectations are unrealistic.

 

The fact is, unless the fan base get so hacked off they stop attending games, this is the way it is from now on, I am afraid.

 

Just imagine for one moment how less angst would surround the club today if the manager had a clue about tactics and had beaten Wycombe and Exeter last season...

[Minty]

I dont understand your issue with my posts. I understand why you've raised the issue, and reasonably politely pointed out why your expectations are unrealistic.

 

The fact is, unless the fan base get so hacked off they stop attending games, this is the way it is from now on, I am afraid.

My concern is that if it continues, it could actually cause more problems for the club, and undermine some of the good work being done. And then it won't be fans not attending that will cause the problem, but other things...

 

I am trying to suggest ways the club could actually help itself, if they were to take on board our concerns. I certainly don't think my expectations are unrealistic. Just because something is a certain way, doesn't mean it can never or will never change. Yes it is a private company and yes they can do whatever they like, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's best for the club.

[Saint Fan CaM]

My concern is that if it continues, it could actually cause more problems for the club, and undermine some of the good work being done. And then it won't be fans not attending that will cause the problem, but other things...

 

I am trying to suggest ways the club could actually help itself, if they were to take on board our concerns. I certainly don't think my expectations are unrealistic. Just because something is a certain way, doesn't mean it can never or will never change. Yes it is a private company and yes they can do whatever they like, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's best for the club.

 

You seem quite eloquent in expressing your concerns Minty, so have you tried approaching the club directly with them? Who knows, with the right approach you might find that NC or perhaps Jordan Sibley can provide you with some assurance(s)?

 

To be honest, I feel that the club is not providing less information but doing it in a different way. I think in close season for SaintsTV subscribers certainly there was more information than previous seasons about what was going on in Switzerland for example. I also feel that we FEEL less informed because the strategy for communication has changed dramatically to ensure the correct information is put out into the outside world in general. There is no speculation - just fact - and that doesn't sit easy with a very small minority of supporters who want to know if club cat is planning to sneeze.

[the saint in winchester]

 

SFC is no longer a public limited company listed in the City, FFS. It doesnt have to answer to ANYONE.

 

I read the original post and frowned, scrolled down ready to post and .... blow me down ... Alpine has taken the words out of my mouth!!!

Some of our readers need to remember we are now in private ownership, not a PLC. All this talk of transparency and being accountable to us fans is misplaced. The owner is Mr Leibherr, the CEO/COO is Mr Cortese. Yes, we're stakeholders by virtue of being customers. If we don't like the product we are being served with, we can go elsewhere. That's the top and bottom of it.

[hypochondriac]

You seem quite eloquent in expressing your concerns Minty, so have you tried approaching the club directly with them? Who knows, with the right approach you might find that NC or perhaps Jordan Sibley can provide you with some assurance(s)?

 

To be honest, I feel that the club is not providing less information but doing it in a different way. I think in close season for SaintsTV subscribers certainly there was more information than previous seasons about what was going on in Switzerland for example. I also feel that we FEEL less informed because the strategy for communication has changed dramatically to ensure the correct information is put out into the outside world in general. There is no speculation - just fact - and that doesn't sit easy with a very small minority of supporters who want to know if club cat is planning to sneeze.

 

Not at all, and I am fed up of people patronising other posters in this way. Using just 3 recent examples, we have had no explanation for the removal of the Ted Bates Trophy, the renaming of the suites at St Marys and the removal of the installment plan. No one is asking for explanations for every little thing, but when decisions are made which can potentially upset people, then the very least that is required (IMO) is an explanation for why a decision has been made.

[Minty]

You seem quite eloquent in expressing your concerns Minty, so have you tried approaching the club directly with them? Who knows, with the right approach you might find that NC or perhaps Jordan Sibley can provide you with some assurance(s)?

I've considered doing so, so we'll see.

 

To be honest, I feel that the club is not providing less information but doing it in a different way. I think in close season for SaintsTV subscribers certainly there was more information than previous seasons about what was going on in Switzerland for example. I also feel that we FEEL less informed because the strategy for communication has changed dramatically to ensure the correct information is put out into the outside world in general. There is no speculation - just fact - and that doesn't sit easy with a very small minority of supporters who want to know if club cat is planning to sneeze.

 

I think it depends on what the news is about. I for one completely agree that with regard to signings and players and the endless speculation that goes on, it is entirely correct to only report on the facts as and when they happen. However, on things like the Season Ticket instalment scheme, and car parking charges, I believe more could've been said so we can understand if there is a reason why we are being inconvenienced/charged. As I said elsewhere... most people are reasonable and if something is explained, even if they don't agree with it, they can respect why it is being done and will go along with it.

[up and away]

This thread is not to debate the relative merits or otherwise of any particular decision made by the club recently... just want to make that clear because often threads get diverted too easily.

 

However, whether you agree or disagree with some of the aforementioned decisions, one thing that surely no one can deny is that very little transparency from the club, if any at all.

 

Some will, quite rightly, say that it is the clubs perogative to say what they want, and they are not required to be transparent. Some frankly don't care what they do as long as we win on the pitch. Maybe when I was younger, I might've been one of those.

 

But not now. In my management experience, people may disagree with your decisions, but as long as you explain why a decision was reached, people can respect that and deal with it.

 

I respect Cortese's desire to run the club as he sees fit, and I have no doubt that everything he does, he does because he believes it is for the good of the club. However, I strongly believe that he would help himself and the club if he showed us fans some respect, and explained why decisions were made.

 

I don't expect, nor want, us to always agree on what he does, just as long as I can respect the reasoning or intentions behind doing so.

 

At the begining I was 100% behind your approach and still am in the main. But in your management experience you have never had to deal with the idiots that get attached to a football club, where a lot of the time rational debate does not get a look in. When I hear some of the idiotic remarks that comes from the fans forums, Cortese must be asking himself what is the point? When they conducted the review of the positioning of the away fans and the closed segments, they soon came to the conclusion that the biggest opposition to closing the Northam / Itchen corner was that the home fans could not get close enough to the away fans to wind it into them. Now based upon that type of logic, it's very difficult to see gains in taking this route.

 

This all comes down to one thing, whether or not you believe Cortese has the best interests of Saints at heart. It is very clear Cortese wants us in the Premier and has the financial backing to get things done. That to me represents 95% of what I want and I have no problem with this direction. The spat with the Echo and the photographers are inconsequential, I am disappointed with the reaction to Nick I. Here I do not know the full facts and hope it gets resolved quickly. I tend to give Nick the benefit of the doubt here with the one proviso, if he went over Cortese's head to Mali. Which in effect Cortese would view as trying to get him the sack.

 

You may not like the manner in which Cortese does business and that is understandable, but the direction and drive towards our final destination is resolute. I would prefer someone a bit more fluffy around the edges, but I am not going to start critising a guy who has the overwhelming majority correct.

[Minty]

Some of our readers need to remember we are now in private ownership, not a PLC.

 

If you read my original post, you should also have read that I acknowledged this.

 

As I've stated above, what they have to or don't have to do, is completely different from what I or anyone else might feel would be prudent to do.

 

And it's football. We CAN'T go elsewhere... No matter how many aspects of Football become business-like, it is not a business in this sense, and as a result, it is effectively exploitation of a mostly static fan base because they know that fans don't want to go elsewhere.

[alpine_saint]

At the begining I was 100% behind your approach and still am in the main. But in your management experience you have never had to deal with the idiots that get attached to a football club, where a lot of the time rational debate does not get a look in. When I hear some of the idiotic remarks that comes from the fans forums, Cortese must be asking himself what is the point? When they conducted the review of the positioning of the away fans and the closed segments, they soon came to the conclusion that the biggest opposition to closing the Northam / Itchen corner was that the home fans could not get close enough to the away fans to wind it into them. Now based upon that type of logic, it's very difficult to see gains in taking this route.

 

This all comes down to one thing, whether or not you believe Cortese has the best interests of Saints at heart. It is very clear Cortese wants us in the Premier and has the financial backing to get things done. That to me represents 95% of what I want and I have no problem with this direction. The spat with the Echo and the photographers are inconsequential, I am disappointed with the reaction to Nick I. Here I do not know the full facts and hope it gets resolved quickly. I tend to give Nick the benefit of the doubt here with the one proviso, if he went over Cortese's head to Mali. Which in effect Cortese would view as trying to get him the sack.

 

You may not like the manner in which Cortese does business and that is understandable, but the direction and drive towards our final destination is resolute. I would prefer someone a bit more fluffy around the edges, but I am not going to start critising a guy who has the overwhelming majority correct.

 

Largely agree with you post, but the highlighted bit - is this really the story doing the rounds ? Blimey...

[hypochondriac]

Largely agree with you post, but the highlighted bit - is this really the story doing the rounds ? Blimey...

No that never happened.

[Minty]

But in your management experience you have never had to deal with the idiots that get attached to a football club, where a lot of the time rational debate does not get a look in. When I hear some of the idiotic remarks that comes from the fans forums, Cortese must be asking himself what is the point? When they conducted the review of the positioning of the away fans and the closed segments, they soon came to the conclusion that the biggest opposition to closing the Northam / Itchen corner was that the home fans could not get close enough to the away fans to wind it into them. Now based upon that type of logic, it's very difficult to see gains in taking this route.

I completely agree that rational debate often does not get a look in (look at this forum for starters). I haven't dealt with football fans in the way you describe, but I have dealt with a lot of customers, and I would hope that any manager worth his salt, can effectively filter out the worthwhile comments and feedback, from the idiotic remarks you refer to.

 

Most of what I refer to above is also not so much about two-way dialogue, just one-way... explaining why decisions have been taken, especially those that affect a lot of fans, or have the potential to.

 

This all comes down to one thing, whether or not you believe Cortese has the best interests of Saints at heart. It is very clear Cortese wants us in the Premier and has the financial backing to get things done. That to me represents 95% of what I want and I have no problem with this direction. The spat with the Echo and the photographers are inconsequential, I am disappointed with the reaction to Nick I. Here I do not know the full facts and hope it gets resolved quickly. I tend to give Nick the benefit of the doubt here with the one proviso, if he went over Cortese's head to Mali. Which in effect Cortese would view as trying to get him the sack.

I have to to say I know little of the Nick I incident, and am happy to go along with what you say. I did mention in my OP that I do indeed believe that NC feels he is doing what is best for SFC, and so I will not criticise him in that regard, however I am just concerned that he could achieve more by being more inclusive and transparent.

 

I may be wrong, I fully accept that, but based on my experience, I fear otherwise.

[Son of Bob]

I could not agree with your point more Minty...

[richardc]

"AT THE Apple iPhone 4 press conference held today, July 16, at Apple's headquarter in Cupertino, California, Apple CEO Steve Jobs apologized to customers for reception problems and offered free cases to all iPhone 4 users. Steve Jobs admitted during the Apple iPhone 4 press conference that he knew there could be a problem if people touched the antenna in that spot."

[alpine_saint]

How can something be cancelled when it was never organised ?

[Fitzhugh Fella]

This thread is not to debate the relative merits or otherwise of any particular decision made by the club recently... just want to make that clear because often threads get diverted too easily.

 

However, whether you agree or disagree with some of the aforementioned decisions, one thing that surely no one can deny is that very little transparency from the club, if any at all.

 

Some will, quite rightly, say that it is the clubs perogative to say what they want, and they are not required to be transparent. Some frankly don't care what they do as long as we win on the pitch. Maybe when I was younger, I might've been one of those.

 

But not now. In my management experience, people may disagree with your decisions, but as long as you explain why a decision was reached, people can respect that and deal with it.

 

I respect Cortese's desire to run the club as he sees fit, and I have no doubt that everything he does, he does because he believes it is for the good of the club. However, I strongly believe that he would help himself and the club if he showed us fans some respect, and explained why decisions were made.

 

I don't expect, nor want, us to always agree on what he does, just as long as I can respect the reasoning or intentions behind doing so.

 

I agree 100% Minty and you can bet your bottom dollar if the fans would welcome transparancy so would the staff and the players/managers.

Like you say NC is entitled to do exactly what he wants, we have no rights or say on how our club is being run any more, and I am eternally grateful he persuaded ML to become involved, but if promotion is to be achieved we need a "together ship" and from where I am sitting it appears that there is some doubt that is the case.

[Viking Warrior]

I agree there should be transparency but then when we have tried to have transparency in the past then all sorts of groups /fans have a differing view of what transparency actually is. Look at the SISA/ Trust/ or whoevers view point it is. This is what actually

clouds the concept of transparency

 

Icidently Miny have you been affected by the photographers ban by any chance?

[Minty]

I agree there should be transparency but then when we have tried to have transparency in the past then all sorts of groups /fans have a differing view of what transparency actually is. Look at the SISA/ Trust/ or whoevers view point it is. This is what actually clouds the concept of transparency

Agreed, but that's a step or two further down the line than I was meaning. I simply mean explanations for decisions. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

Icidently Miny have you been affected by the photographers ban by any chance?

No, I haven't taken photos at St Mary's for some time now, and am not likely to again at this rate!

[stmusicdude]

Maybe NC :

 

- was put off the transparency approach by the fan base being fronted by the likes of Illingsworth

- has become a little dictatorial in backroom staff dealings (if really is the case) because of too much familiarity and lack of professionality

- has become very strict about staff leaks because of all the sh*t-stirring ITK hangers-on

 

As long as he gets the results on the pitch, I dont care. And as long as he does something about it if those results are not forthcoming, I dont care.

 

SFC is no longer a public limited company listed in the City, FFS. It doesnt have to answer to ANYONE. Do you tell Steve Jobs how to design iPods, FFS ?

 

No he doesn’t "HAVE" to answer to anyone .. & Minty CLEARLY accepted that .. what he said was it's better to be able to understand & respect a decision ..

OF course you will be happy as long as results go right ..why wouldn’t you be? what decissions could of been made so far could effect you? Tickets? Booking fee? Parking fee? Season ticket installment plan? Oh yea .. NONE ...

Oh you said IF results go right .. well they havent been. Trouble with you is you normally jump on AP as soon as any result goes wrong .. so "As long as he gets the results on the pitch, I dont care. And as long as he does something about it if those results are not forthcoming, I dont care" That pretty clear then it can only be AP fault!

 

As for Ipods actually NO we dont tell them how to design them, but we do alter our buying habbits when a product is crap .. & big company’s who sell very good products do make gaffs & realise & have to ammend on the fact people have stopped buying .. ask Microsoft about VISTA!! same principle really but do we tell Bill Gates how to make windows?

 

If you want be keep thinking NC can't put a foot wrong then fine... but you seem to get cross frustrated, flusterd or angry when people ASK questions .. Mintys was one of the better posts ..

[alpine_saint]

No he doesn’t "HAVE" to answer to anyone .. & Minty CLEARLY accepted that .. what he said was it's better to be able to understand & respect a decision ..

OF course you will be happy as long as results go right ..why wouldn’t you be? what decissions could of been made so far could effect you? Tickets? Booking fee? Parking fee? Season ticket installment plan? Oh yea .. NONE ...

Oh you said IF results go right .. well they havent been. Trouble with you is you normally jump on AP as soon as any result goes wrong .. so "As long as he gets the results on the pitch, I dont care. And as long as he does something about it if those results are not forthcoming, I dont care" That pretty clear then it can only be AP fault!

 

As for Ipods actually NO we dont tell them how to design them, but we do alter our buying habbits when a product is crap .. & big company’s who sell very good products do make gaffs & realise & have to ammend on the fact people have stopped buying .. ask Microsoft about VISTA!! same principle really but do we tell Bill Gates how to make windows?

 

If you want be keep thinking NC can't put a foot wrong then fine... but you seem to get cross frustrated, flusterd or angry when people ASK questions .. Mintys was one of the better posts ..

 

What a totally unorganised post.

 

The part I've highlighted was exactly the point I made; the only way NC is going to take any notice of the whingers.

 

I havent said he cant put a foot wrong; I did in fact register my dismay today at the situation with the photographers as highlighted by The Sun.

 

Then you commented on who to blame if results dont go right; well in all my time posting on here and its predecessors, I've maintained a clear opinion on where the buck stops for team performances, irrespsective of who was manager.

 

Oh, and then we have the usual attendance dig. Very boring. As I said before, if there were no option available to me for finding the money for an ST in advance, I'd question if it was my highest priority in life. As for the rest, well as an occasional attendee, I would take it on the chin, safe in the knowledge that its helping fund my club and its transfer activities.

[Andy_Porter]

Maybe NC :

 

- was put off the transparency approach by the fan base being fronted by the likes of Illingsworth

- has become a little dictatorial in backroom staff dealings (if really is the case) because of too much familiarity and lack of professionality

- has become very strict about staff leaks because of all the sh*t-stirring ITK hangers-on

 

As long as he gets the results on the pitch, I dont care. And as long as he does something about it if those results are not forthcoming, I dont care.

 

SFC is no longer a public limited company listed in the City, FFS. It doesnt have to answer to ANYONE. Do you tell Steve Jobs how to design iPods, FFS ?

 

I take it you've never been on an Apple forum then.

[Andy_Porter]

Right, so people will stop buying iPods.

 

So if you are really so p*ssed off, dont go to games, or dont buy that third pie, or dont buy your replica kit.

 

Boycotting shirts and pies is all well and good but I really can't understand how a football fan could suggest stop going to games, it's a passion for a lot of people not something you can just stop doing on a whim.

[alpine_saint]

I take it you've never been on an Apple forum then.

 

It was a rough analogy, FFS.

 

Besides, what makes you think he pays attention ?

[alpine_saint]

Boycotting shirts and pies is all well and good but I really can't understand how a football fan could suggest stop going to games, it's a passion for a lot of people not something you can just stop doing on a whim.

 

There's the rub. The powers-that-be at the clubs know that, so they dont have to do anything.

[Andy_Porter]

It was a rough analogy, FFS.

 

Besides, what makes you think he pays attention ?

 

Well it's the same with anything. You name a semi decent product and there will be a forum full of people discussing and criticizing the product, owner, developers etc. It's not like this is a football only thing it happens with everything.

[70's Mike]

Totally agree with Minty

[Minty]

There's the rub. The powers-that-be at the clubs know that, so they dont have to do anything.

 

Forgive me if I'm putting words in your mouth here, but it seems to me that you're basically saying that you don't mind them exploiting fans?

[Andy_Porter]

There's the rub. The powers-that-be at the clubs know that, so they dont have to do anything.

 

Very true, it's all well and good doing that now but at some point the football bubble will burst and it will be back paying customers being the sole income. If Cortese or any other chairman ****es off their fans too much and say another recession hits they will start to notice the problems then.

 

Personally I think attendances will be up, shirt sales will be up and pies/beers etc will be up. Most fans are quite fickle when it comes to football, if we're tonking teams every week the stadium will be full no matter what the chairman's doing, it's in the long run that I feel we might start to notice problems if the club keep up this attitude.

[Saint Fan CaM]

No one is asking for explanations for every little thing, but when decisions are made which can potentially upset people, then the very least that is required (IMO) is an explanation for why a decision has been made.

 

So just who makes the decision about when it's suitable to provide an explanation? You? Me? Or perhaps the CEO of SFC? For the answer, see below....

 

As I said elsewhere... most people are reasonable and if something is explained, even if they don't agree with it, they can respect why it is being done and will go along with it.

 

I can understand your concern and of course like you I may wish for explanations for certain decisions. However, that does not mean that we're entitled to get everything we want. To think that way is somewhat immature I would argue. What we have got in place of Lowe and then administration is a regime that have saved the club AND invested heavily in the club's infrastructure for the future, including replacing a squad going nowhere with a decent side (I could go on about the detail but it's all been said before). In the days of Lowe, we all complained about how he dominated communications - now the news from the club is dominated by the football side of things and that's surely a good thing?

[alpine_saint]

Forgive me if I'm putting words in your mouth here, but it seems to me that you're basically saying that you don't mind them exploiting fans?

 

Havent a clue how you came to that conclusion, or how you came to the conclusion that our fans are being "exploited"