Alain Perrin Posted 10 November, 2008 Share Posted 10 November, 2008 (edited) Ashamed to say I got into a slanging match with another fan after the Bristol City match. He called the players ****, I wanted to still encourage them. It made me think about who was right and I realised afterwards we both are. We're both fans. We both want Saints to do well (and are ****ed off when they don't). ...just the ways of showing it are different. Anyway to the person I told to "**** off and not bother coming" in Kingsland centre, I apologise. You're as much of a fan as I and are entitled to express your opinion in whatever way you want. (the apology doesn't stretch to the beardy bloke further to your right who complains from the first whistle to the last whenever there is a misplaced pass - there is a limit ) Edited 10 November, 2008 by Alain Perrin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scummer Posted 10 November, 2008 Share Posted 10 November, 2008 I don't understand calling the team ****. Either it's wrong and the management isn't getting the most out of them, OR It's true, in which case they can't do any better, so why have a go at them? Maybe a combination of both. Frustrating, but pointless to have a go at them about it. It's one thing if individuals aren't putting in the effort, but what about players like Benali? Terrible player, but loved for the effort and enthusiasm he showed every game. He was given proper support. It's annoying that we seem to be rubbish now, but I don't see moaning about it is going to help improve things. The support at matches is still very good, all things considered. A Bristol City fan even texted 606 to say how impressed he was by our fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alain Perrin Posted 10 November, 2008 Author Share Posted 10 November, 2008 To be honest, during the game I thought the support was superb. One of the best this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 10 November, 2008 Share Posted 10 November, 2008 I don't understand calling the team ****. Either it's wrong and the management isn't getting the most out of them, OR It's true, in which case they can't do any better, so why have a go at them? Maybe a combination of both. Frustrating, but pointless to have a go at them about it. It's one thing if individuals aren't putting in the effort, but what about players like Benali? Terrible player, but loved for the effort and enthusiasm he showed every game. He was given proper support. It's annoying that we seem to be rubbish now, but I don't see moaning about it is going to help improve things. Adrian. When you go out to a restaurant and order a nice juicy steak, cooked how you like it, and you receive a mashed up pile of meat that looks like dog sh1t, and isn't cooked how you want it to be, do you just shut up, accept that the chefs are sh1t, can't do their job, eat what they serve you, and then happily pay the bill afterwards with a smile on your face? Oh, and do you go back in a fortnight's time knowing you'll repeat the experience all over again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 10 November, 2008 Share Posted 10 November, 2008 Adrian. When you go out to a restaurant and order a nice juicy steak, cooked how you like it, and you receive a mashed up pile of meat that looks like dog sh1t, and isn't cooked how you want it to be, do you just shut up, accept that the chefs are sh1t, can't do their job, eat what they serve you, and then happily pay the bill afterwards with a smile on your face? Oh, and do you go back in a fortnight's time knowing you'll repeat the experience all over again? TBH, if you knew in advance that the chef was off working somewhere else and the YTS kids were doing the cooking that night, then you would be a mug for expecting haute cuisine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 10 November, 2008 Share Posted 10 November, 2008 TBH, if you knew in advance that the chef was off working somewhere else and the YTS kids were doing the cooking that night, then you would be a mug for expecting haute cuisine. Not if the owner / director had advertised that there would be even better food served up because of new working methods introduced Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 10 November, 2008 Share Posted 10 November, 2008 Not if the owner / director had advertised that there would be even better food served up because of new working methods introduced Total cuisine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Posted 10 November, 2008 Share Posted 10 November, 2008 TBH, if you knew in advance that the chef was off working somewhere else and the YTS kids were doing the cooking that night, then you would be a mug for expecting haute cuisine. Depends on whether you consider the traditions and values of the club to be more Burger King than Quat Saisons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Marco Posted 10 November, 2008 Share Posted 10 November, 2008 The whole picking on the fans or saying the support has been bad is just a joke to be honest. The fans have done all they can do. If you look at other teams your see the crowds have turned on the team and already demanded change i.e Watford. We have gone through 2 seasons of hell and we still have the fans out there paying to watch garbage but yet still cheer them on as best as they can. The fans are the ones who suffer and are deserving of better, not the other way round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 10 November, 2008 Share Posted 10 November, 2008 Total cuisine? Indeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chocco boxo Posted 10 November, 2008 Share Posted 10 November, 2008 Reading away will be JP last game I think after we get dicked 6-0. I hope I am wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
instinct Posted 10 November, 2008 Share Posted 10 November, 2008 we can't afford to pay off his tiny salary and we can't afford anyone new Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpb Posted 10 November, 2008 Share Posted 10 November, 2008 As a teacher, I have learnt to look for the positives and encourage my students giving them some confidence and belief - telling them they are rubbish doesn't help them to improve; in fact, quite the opposite. As we are, at the moment, supporting a very inexperienced squad of players why do people think that moaning at them will have the desired effect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Bates Posted 10 November, 2008 Share Posted 10 November, 2008 I don't understand calling the team ****. Exactly, we're more like 3 stars at the moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 10 November, 2008 Share Posted 10 November, 2008 As a teacher, I have learnt to look for the positives and encourage my students giving them some confidence and belief - telling them they are rubbish doesn't help them to improve; in fact, quite the opposite. As we are, at the moment, supporting a very inexperienced squad of players why do people think that moaning at them will have the desired effect? I don't know, maybe because the comparison between kids who are made to go to school whether they like it or not, and professional footballers who get paid hundreds if not thousands of pounds per week for their chosen profession is technically invalid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponty Posted 10 November, 2008 Share Posted 10 November, 2008 Meh, they weren't bad on Saturday anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 10 November, 2008 Share Posted 10 November, 2008 Meh, they weren't bad on Saturday anyway. Very true, we weren't 'bad', just no finishing product It's like having a chicken burger without the bun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted 10 November, 2008 Share Posted 10 November, 2008 As a teacher, I have learnt to look for the positives and encourage my students giving them some confidence and belief - telling them they are rubbish doesn't help them to improve; in fact, quite the opposite. As we are, at the moment, supporting a very inexperienced squad of players why do people think that moaning at them will have the desired effect? Couldn't agree more. To me, indeed to any parent, this is so obvious we shouldn't need reminding. To the person that raised the issue of how much footballer's earn....sorry, it's a complete red herring and if you don't know why consider what motivates you and demotivates you at work. For instance, should cheering and booing be introduced to all work places in an effort to improve performance? To the person that raised the restaurant analogy...we're not all "customers". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowgli Posted 10 November, 2008 Share Posted 10 November, 2008 Adrian. When you go out to a restaurant and order a nice juicy steak, cooked how you like it, and you receive a mashed up pile of meat that looks like dog sh1t, and isn't cooked how you want it to be, do you just shut up, accept that the chefs are sh1t, can't do their job, eat what they serve you, and then happily pay the bill afterwards with a smile on your face? Oh, and do you go back in a fortnight's time knowing you'll repeat the experience all over again? Not a bad analogy but if it was MY restaurant (and this is MY club), I would offer encouraging words to the chef who was clearly trying and not stand up in the middle of the restaurant and hurl abuse at him. That would, after all, say more about me than it would about the chef. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 10 November, 2008 Share Posted 10 November, 2008 Could be that its impossible for the YTS chefs to get the recipe right because several ingredients are missing (too expensive), so they are trying new ideas - some work some dont and whether you come back for more depends on hether yu believ that they will get better or go bust as customer numbers dry up? This is a great example though of whow wierd it is being a fan - had we played exactly the same, but without that defensive error and Euell had scored - the general feeling would probably been one of 'not bad getting the points when we did not play that well' (is that not the mark of a good side?), and a feeling of things looking up with 7 points out of 9 in the last 3 games... same as one victory does not mean we changed a corner, this defeat does not mean we are doomed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 10 November, 2008 Share Posted 10 November, 2008 Regardless of the good or bad points of the various analogies being bandied about in attempts to make comparisons with other businesses, the board relies too much on the fanatical nature of support to football clubs to maintain the finances at a certain level. The trouble is, whereas there is a bedrock of support who will pay their dosh whoever is in charge and whatever the division we are in, there is a more transient support which is happy enough to pay if they are witnessing something worth their money, but who will not pay for a poor product. As the board need a certain number of bums on seats to achieve a break even figure financially, it is incumbent on them to ensure that the matchday experience is sufficiently good to encourage the floaters to part with their cash and keep attending. Patently they are failing to achieve that end and the blame attaches only to them, not the fans. I see nothing wrong in the restaurant analogy, nor any reason why highly paid professionals should not be booed if those paying to watch them perceive that they are not trying. The payment of their admission fee or their ST allows them that privilege. Granted that school children often react positively to praise, but there is not much of the other side of the coin in modern day education whereby they can be encouraged to perform better through any form of realistic punishment. Many schools under liberal establishments have done away with competitive sport lest the poor darlings are scarred for life because they came last and are therefore consequently totally unprepared when they leave the cosy cocoon of school and enter real life which is a jungle. For many, adversity makes them stronger and football is a man's game. Encouragement and praise when it's due, but a good kick up the backside when it's appropriate too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londonsaint1604 Posted 10 November, 2008 Share Posted 10 November, 2008 I don't know, maybe because the comparison between kids who are made to go to school whether they like it or not, and professional footballers who get paid hundreds if not thousands of pounds per week for their chosen profession is technically invalid? Whereas supporting a football club and eating a steak at a restaurant are basically the same thing. Southampton FC is a club in decline, simple as that. Don't expect to be entertained every time you go st marys, or indeed very often at all! And don't expect to see them winning very much either. Supporting a football club is not the same as being a paying customer at a restaurant, however. You cannot expect that you will get a return on your investment every time you spend £24 on a ticket because it just won't happen sometimes. You have to take the rough with the smooth and right now we are going through a very rough patch indeed, all we can do as fans is support the team and be patient. With such a young side I think it's important they get as much support from the fans as we can muster. It's of little wonder that the away form is better than our home form this season, as the pressure of playing in front of the home fans is clearly getting to these young players. If you want to get on their backs when things aren't going well, or stay away because you don't fancy paying to watch Saints lose, that's up to you, but it's not going to help the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent Orange Posted 10 November, 2008 Share Posted 10 November, 2008 To be honest, during the game I thought the support was superb. One of the best this season. Have to admit I thought the support was excellent too. As I've said elsewhere not been for a while but the Northam slowing singing Oh When the Saints brought a lump to my throat. Wonderful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 10 November, 2008 Share Posted 10 November, 2008 Southampton FC is a club in decline, simple as that. Don't expect to be entertained every time you go st marys, or indeed very often at all! Not the best advert in the world for something which essentially is in the business of entertainment :shock: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londonsaint1604 Posted 10 November, 2008 Share Posted 10 November, 2008 Not the best advert in the world for something which essentially is in the business of entertainment :shock: Well if you've been to many football games you'll know that you don't always get 90 minutes of sheer joy and entertainment for your money. You get less entertainment when your team is not playing very well and not getting results, as is the case with Saints right now. Things tend to change over time, however, so I'm sure that if we're patient we can expect to see some great football and some great results at st marys again, maybe next week against Wolves, maybe next month against Forest or maybe not until next season, who knows. All I'm saying is that things aren't looking good at the moment but moaning about it won't make much difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 11 November, 2008 Share Posted 11 November, 2008 All I'm saying is that things aren't looking good at the moment but moaning about it won't make much difference. There are two benefits from moaning. Firstly we all feel better for getting it off our chests. Secondly, if enough of us moan and if nobody acknowledges our gripes and acts on them and we stay away, then we will force the board to listen or go under. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted 11 November, 2008 Share Posted 11 November, 2008 There are two benefits from moaning. Firstly we all feel better for getting it off our chests. Secondly, if enough of us moan and if nobody acknowledges our gripes and acts on them and we stay away, then we will force the board to listen or go under. You won't force the Board to resign. They'll sack the manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 11 November, 2008 Share Posted 11 November, 2008 You won't force the Board to resign. They'll sack the manager. Where did I say we'd force the board to resign? I said we'd force them to listen or go under. That scenario is already happening gradually as numbers attending diminish weekly. But a mass boycott would force them to resign if it could command the support of sufficient numbers. As it is, they'll attempt to survive until January, when Surman, Lallana and possibly others will be sold. But then attendances will diminish still further once any quality has gone, the money from those sales will disappear into paying the bank overdraught and we will soon be running up another overdraught, hoping that even more youngsters will appear. Because JP was Lowe's appointment, Lowe will keep him far longer than otherwise, as sacking him would be an admission of failure by him. JP should have gone already otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 11 November, 2008 Share Posted 11 November, 2008 To be honest, during the game I thought the support was superb. One of the best this season. Completely agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted 11 November, 2008 Share Posted 11 November, 2008 Where did I say we'd force the board to resign? I said we'd force them to listen or go under. That scenario is already happening gradually as numbers attending diminish weekly. But a mass boycott would force them to resign if it could command the support of sufficient numbers. As it is, they'll attempt to survive until January, when Surman, Lallana and possibly others will be sold. But then attendances will diminish still further once any quality has gone, the money from those sales will disappear into paying the bank overdraught and we will soon be running up another overdraught, hoping that even more youngsters will appear. Because JP was Lowe's appointment, Lowe will keep him far longer than otherwise, as sacking him would be an admission of failure by him. JP should have gone already otherwise. OK you said force the Board to listen or go under, whatever "go under" means. I can see a certain logic to a mass boycott forcing the Board to resign (I know you didn't say this) on the assumption that there is a credible alternative ready and willing to step in which satisfies lenders. As far as I am aware there isn't. So, if the Board doesn't listen, you force it to go under. If the Board goes under isn't there a danger the club goes under with it? Bit of a high risk strategy isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 11 November, 2008 Share Posted 11 November, 2008 OK you said force the Board to listen or go under, whatever "go under" means. I can see a certain logic to a mass boycott forcing the Board to resign (I know you didn't say this) on the assumption that there is a credible alternative ready and willing to step in which satisfies lenders. As far as I am aware there isn't. You're joking right? I could probably name a couple of thousand people I'd like to see heading up SFC, starting with my goldfish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Louis Posted 11 November, 2008 Share Posted 11 November, 2008 Exactly, we're more like 3 stars at the moment Schneiderlin, Lallana and Surman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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