Boris Johnson

[pap]

The point is it is a secret. If someone asked you, in earshot of your boss and all your work colleagues if you wanted his job, what would you say? Would you say yes and undermine your boss? Or would you refuse to confirm it?

 

We can all see your bias against Boris coming out here unfortunately, however much you try to write as impartial. Just because he won't answer questions about his private life in public it means he isn't straight talking? I don't really know what you expect and who you're comparing him to, but you're talking about a politician that doesn't and has never existed.

 

And that bottom sentence is absolute bunkum as you well know. Lots of high ranking politicians have been on panel shows (HIGNFY).

 

Any opinion I have on Boris is informed by his politics, his actions and with this particular politician, his so-called USP, his honesty.

 

You can call it bias if you like. I'm calling it informed opinion, and backing it up with examples. You're defending him on the basis that a normal person wouldn't openly proclaim he was after his boss' job. Not a normal person, and not a normal job.

 

As it goes, I disagree with you. Boris could easily claim he'd want to be PM, and his fans amongst the public would love him for it. He bottled it, and thus invalidated the one thing that people thought made him different. Not only that, it shows him for what he is; an opportunist with zero political courage.

 

I actually feel sorry for you Tories. You wait ages for a Tory government to come around, only get a Tory-led one instead that seems intent on making history with the entry into our first triple-dip recession. The government has performed so poorly that you're falling for Boris' schtick.

 

And you wonder why left-wingers make generalisations about right wingers being stupid

 

Anyways, I'm more than willing to entertain evidence in support of Boris. What are his great political achievements?

 

* buffoonery is not a political achievement

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Any opinion I have on Boris is informed by his politics, his actions and with this particular politician, his so-called USP, his honesty.

 

You can call it bias if you like. I'm calling it informed opinion, and backing it up with examples. You're defending him on the basis that a normal person wouldn't openly proclaim he was after his boss' job. Not a normal person, and not a normal job.

 

As it goes, I disagree with you. Boris could easily claim he'd want to be PM, and his fans amongst the public would love him for it. He bottled it, and thus invalidated the one thing that people thought made him different. Not only that, it shows him for what he is; an opportunist with zero political courage.

 

I actually feel sorry for you Tories. You wait ages for a Tory government to come around, only get a Tory-led one instead that seems intent on making history with the entry into our first triple-dip recession. The government has performed so poorly that you're falling for Boris' schtick.

 

And you wonder why left-wingers make generalisations about right wingers being stupid

 

Anyways, I'm more than willing to entertain evidence in support of Boris. What are his great political achievements?

 

* buffoonery is not a political achievement

 

I see you skirted around the question on who you're comparing him to? Personally I don't want him as PM, but I think a lot of points you've made above are wide of the mark. We've all known about this Michael Howard lie and this Darius Guppy tale (which nothing came of by the way) for ages, as I am sure you have, so none of what came out of the interview should have changed your opinion of him. I am interested to know when you proclaimed to like him, as these have been in the public eye for a long, long time.

 

As said, I don't want him as PM, but you want Political Achievements, here you go:

 

1. Frozen the Council Tax precept for two years running. After allowing for inflation this means a cut in real terms. Over the eight years as Mayor, Ken Livingstone increased his take of council tax by 153 per cent.

 

2. The Congestion Charge West London Extension is being scrapped by the end of this year.

 

3. The Mayor is investing £60 million to bring empty homes back into use for affordable housing, more than three times the financial commitment made by the previous Mayor.

 

4. Phasing out the hated bendy buses. So far 83 of them have gone. Routes 507 and 521 were the first to see bendies withdrawn, followed by route 38 in autumn 2009. Bendies on the remaining 11 routes will be replaced by 2011 as contracts come up for renewal.

 

5. There are 400 more police officers for buses.

 

6. Free travel has been introduced for veterans.

 

7. Facilitated the departure of Sir Ian Blair. The new Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Paul Stephenson is doing a much better job - bringing in common sense changes such as the police going on the beat individually rather than in pairs.

 

8. Traffic lights resignalling. TfL is increasing the usage of the ‘intelligent’ SCOOT (Split Cycle Offset Optimisation Technique) system from the existing 2000 sites, to 3000 sites, by 2015/16. It is also reviewing timings at 1000 traffic signal sites annually. These measures will allow traffic lights to adjust their own timings in response to traffic conditions. "There is surely not a single Londoner who has not waited at a red light at two in the morning on a deserted street and wondered why on earth they are being delayed," says Boris. TfL’s signal timing reviews are having a noticeable impact in smoothing traffic flow. He has also allowed Ealing to bag up traffic lights.

 

9. The various GLA bodies now employ 13 fewer press officers than under Ken Livingstone.

 

10. Rough sleeping has been reduced by two thirds. The successes to date have not required additional funds but are a result of better co-ordination between the agencies responsible. The estimated number of persistent "embedded" rough sleepers across London is down from 205 under Ken Livingstone to 67 now.

 

 

11. A series of new City Academies are being sponsored. The first Mayoral Academy will be Turin Grove School in Edmonton, open from September.

 

12. The Mayor's Fund has been launched to tackle child poverty.

 

13. Flew to Beijing Olympics, economy class. Gave a wonderful motivational speech. He said: "Ping pong was invented on the dining tables of England in the 19th century and it was called wiff waff. There I think you have the essential difference between us and the rest of world. Other nations, the French, looked at a dining table and saw an opportunity to have dinner. We looked at a dining table and saw an opportunity to play wiff waff. That is why London is the sporting capital of the world. And I say to the Chinese, and I say to the world: ping pong is coming home."

 

14. Scrapped the post of Women's adviser, which was held by Anni Marjoram, and removed four more of "Ken's Wimmin" - the total salary bill was over £400,000. Those who have gone include Ken Livingstone's partner Emma Beale, who was paid £96,000 to be the Mayor's "Administration Manager" and Socialist Action member Jude Woodward who had been the Cultural Commissar.

 

15. Championed the City of London against EU regulation - notably the protectionist directive on hedge funds.

 

16. Supporting the phasing out of road humps across London.

 

17. Reducing barriers for pedestrians with 20 miles of guard rail going.

 

18. Launched a competition for a New Bus for London, a 21st century successor to the Routemaster. The first prototype is expected to start testing by the end of 2011.

 

19. 1500 new street trees have been planted. 2000 more will have been planted by the end of 2010/11.

 

20. 12,000 affordable homes have been completed - far more than under Ken Livingstone.

 

21. Has issued guidance that new publicly funded social-housing homes must have higher standards. The minimum space standards recommended are broadly ten per cent higher than the 1961 Parker Morris benchmark. An end to the Livingstone era rabbit hutches.

 

22. Oyster extended to national rail from this year, and also to the River Bus.

 

23. Modernisation of the London Fire Brigade - notably in shift patterns.

 

24. Closing down of GLA office in Venezuela and scaling down of other overseas offices saving: £100,000.

 

25. Far more transparency. All spending over £1,000 is published on the website as well as expenses claims. Wrong doing is dealt with robustly rather than hidden or denied which was the culture under the previous regime.

 

26. Brought back Christmas - hosting various carol concerts, etc..

 

27. The Queen's portrait unveiled in City Hall.

 

28. Restoration of drinking fountains on the capital's streets. The one in Trafalgar Square has already been brought back into use.

 

29. Working with the boroughs, including support for decentralising some of his power to them.

 

30. A successful visit to New York (paying his own fare) was held to boost tourism. Huge media coverage in the Big Apple. The ‘Only in London’ tourism campaign has boosted the capital's coffers by £50million.

 

31. While cycling through Camden, the Mayor saw Franny Armstrong under attack by hoodies. He set an example to Londoners by coming to her assistance.

 

32. Motorcycles are being allowed in bus lanes on TfL roads with the double aim of reducing congestion on the roads, and reducing the number of accidents involving motorcyclists.

 

33. A 24 hour Freedom Pass.

 

34. Scrapping The Londoner newspaper - saving £3 million a year.

 

35. Backing the sensitive use by the police of stop and search, which has so far taken almost 5,000 knives off the streets.

 

36. Boosting electric cars by ensuring that every Londoner will be no more than one mile from an electric car charge point by 2015. The Mayor is also procuring 1000 electric vehicles in the Greater London Authority Group public fleet.

 

37. Giving a higher priority to English tuition for refugees. The Mayor's new migration board will prioritise better ESOL (English for speakers of other languages) provision across London.

 

38. Classical music, neglected under the previous regime as elitist, is now getting encouragement. For instance, the No Strings Attached initiative backed by Julian Lloyd Webber where unused musical instruments are donated to be used by children. Also an annual schools music festival.

 

39. 100,000 more tons of the capital's annual waste will soon be turned into green energy, with £12m of guaranteed funding due to be approved by the London Waste and Recycling Board.

 

40. Launched the Capital Growth scheme with a target to create 2012 growing spaces by 2012 in discarded patches of London, tended by enthusiastic community gardeners.

 

http://conservativehome.blogs.com/localgovernment/2010/01/100-achievements-of-boris-johnson-as-mayor-of-london.html

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

41. He has been a listening Mayor. There have been far more visits - including to outer London boroughs.

 

42. Some of the consultation exercises have actually been genuine - for instance over which parks should be prioritised and the Congestion Charge Extension.

 

43. 11 rundown parks are being rejuvenated with grants of £400,000 each from City Hall.

 

44. There has been a break with his predecessor's expensive gesture of constantly engaging lawyers - usually losing.

 

45. A housing strategy that promotes home ownership schemes rather than stipulating that new housing has to be for social rent. The Mayor’s First Steps Housing programme is aimed at improving the intermediate housing offer for Londoners. The programme will bring forward new products including the Up2U scheme launched earlier this year. It is also looking at ways to simplify the applications process and make the system easier for first time buyers to understand.

 

46. Decluttering of roads will be based on the "presumption" that each piece of equipment and obstruction should be removed unless it can be justified. "If Give Way signs at minor junctions are removed then consideration may also be given to removing the associated road markings."

 

47. Unveiled a statue of war hero Sir Keith Park in Trafalgar Square.

 

48. £9.8 million is being spent on 150 schemes to facilitate walking and cycling along eight routes to the Olympics to also be maintained after the Games.

 

49. Launch of the Status Dogs Unit by the Metropolitan Police with the removal of 680 dangerous and/or illegal dogs from London's streets - often pitbulls.

 

50. Boosted the London Jazz Festival so that it reaches more boroughs.

 

51. Providing 30,000 new homes by freeing up under-used land owned by the Greater London Authority.

 

52. Helped shopping in the West End by giving Oxford Circus a makeover. Shoppers will be able to cross the busy intersection diagonally in an 'X' as well as straight ahead - meaning the junction will be able to handle double the number of pedestrians and ease overcrowding.

 

53. Shown himself to be a mayor for all Londoners. Contrary to the unpleasant slurs of bigotry thrown at him during the election campaign he has made a point of being inclusive listening to Londoners regardless of their background in terms of race, religion or sexuality.

 

54. Promoted cycling with a new Cycle Hire scheme.

 

55. Boosted apprenticeships including 400 new bus driver apprenticeships a year in the capital.

 

56. Stood up to Government bullying - notably over their interference in his proposed appointment of Veronica Wadley as Chairman of the London Arts Council.

 

57. With his commissioner for Sport, Kate Hoey, he has given Londoners more sporting opportunities. For instance the Mayor's PlaySport London: Make a Splash programme will see two temporary pools deployed in London boroughs. The new scheme, powered by 'pools 4 people', offers swimming even if people do not live within the vicinity of a swimming pool. The pools will be spending 12 weeks in three different locations each. One pool is up and running in Ealing, the second under construction. In January, the two pools will be deployed in two different boroughs. Through this programme, over 15,000 non-swimmers (children and adults) will learn to swim each year.

 

58. Judo provision in London is being increased.

 

59. Sailing is being encouraged - for instance through support for the AHOY Centre in Greenwich.

 

60. Dance is being supported. For instance the Dare2Dance project which aims to increase participation in physical activity through the medium of Street Dance using Hip Hop Dance Techniques.

 

61. Boxing is being supported. For instance the London Boxing Academy with sites in Hackney and Haringey is being supported.

 

62. The requirement for 50% of housing developments to be social housing has been lifted. Rather than inflexible percentages the Mayor is concerned with the outcome - the total number of new homes built.

 

63. Knife crime is down by 30%. This reflects the success of Operation Blunt II - an intitiave by the police at the mayor's instigation to search for knoves which resulted in 27,000 searches and more than 500 knives being seized.

 

64. Action is being taken to improve air quality. For instance through hybrid buses and by working with the boroughs to tackle air quality hotspots.

 

65. The opening of Imperial Wharf Station.

 

66. There has been funding for world-class cultural developments including Tate Modern extension and a new centre for the British Film Institute and Film Day.

 

67. Made significant savings on cultural events and refreshed the programme with new, inclusive events like Story of London.

 

68. Promoting London Fashion Week, Boris appeared on the cover of Elle magazine.

 

69. A scheme have been introduced where young people who lose their right to free travel through misbehaviour have to earn it back through voluntary work.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

70. LEDs are being installed at 3,500 traffic lights at around 300 junctions in the Capital. LED technology can reduce electricity consumption and the associated CO2 emissions that cause climate change by a massive 60 per cent.

 

71. £375,000 is being provided over the next three years to open a new rape crisis centre in west London. £260,000 of funding has been allocated for the Rape and Sexual Abuse Support Centre (RASAC) in Croydon. Altogether there will be four rape crisis centres - there was just one under Ken Livingstone for a city of seven million people.

 

72. 42 public buildings in the GLA Group are being given an eco-makeover. Wembley police station has led the way with solar photovoltaic roof panels.

 

73. Boris Johnson appeared in EastEnders visiting the Queen Vic.

 

74. Foreign travel costs for the Mayor’s office were reduced from £107,000 in 2007-08 to £30,000 in 2008-09, while the rest of the GLA reduced its costs from £102,000 to £28,000. A saving of £151,000.

 

75. Ten delegates attended party conferences in 2008-09, at a total cost (including attendance, advertising, stands, etc.) of £9,000, compared with 19 delegates in 2007-08 at a cost of £43,000. Saving £34,000.

 

76. Reduction in expenditure on GLA consultants - reducing from £4.7m in 2007-08 to £2.8m in 2008-09. Saving £1.9m

 

77. Income from the hire of London’s Living Room at City Hall has increased from £145,000 in 2007-08 to £167,000 in 2008-09 as a result of stopping the policy of allowing preferred groups and organisations to use it for free. Saving £20,000

 

78. The London Development Agency has introduced "a more streamlined staffing structure" - saving £6.6m.

 

79. Overall crime on the Tube and DLR is down by 8%. Robbery is down by 29.2%, violent crime is down 2.6% and public disorder offences are down by 4.5%.

 

80. Londoners on Job Seeker’s Allowance and the new Employment and Support Allowance now benefit from half price travel on the buses. This is to help people who have recently lost their jobs bounce back quickly, by being able to travel cheaply to interviews, and access libraries and job centres.

 

81. Funding has been found to train and recruit 10,000 Specials Constables by 2012. The numbers are due to increase by 2,690 over the next three years.

 

82. Major retailers including Sainsbury’s, John Lewis, Tesco, Marks & Spencer and Borders have signed up to the ‘Open London’ scheme. The aim is to increase access to public lavatories. These businesses allow the public to use their lavatories, where available, without the need to make a purchase.

 

83. Cancellation of the ‘Beijing Bus’ saving £160,000.

 

84. For the coming year's budget £100 million of new savings within the police service will be delivered by deploying staff and resources more effectively and bearing down on overtime costs, while continuing to improve front-line policing.

 

85. Savings of £100,000 a year in the cost of the London Assembly.

 

86. There are Northern line improvements with a new control centre and computerised signalling system, scheduled to be delivered in 2012. This will enable trains to run closer together and at higher speeds, cutting journey times by 18 per cent and increasing capacity by 20 per cent.

 

87. To cool tube trains in summer various improvements are being carried out, including restoring ventilation fans and installing mechanical chillers and portable summer fans.

 

88. On the Docklands Light Railway a total of 55 new carriages have been ordered, expanding trains from two to three cars and giving a 50 per cent capacity increase by June 2010.

 

89. Held biggest ever St George's Day event on Trafalgar Square - 20,000 attended.

 

90. Put cultural supremo, Tony Hall, Chief Executive of the Royal Opera House, in charge of the Cultural Olympiad in 2012.

 

91. By summer the new generation of the Countdown system will increase bus customers’ access to real-time information for all of the 19,000 bus stops and 700 routes in London via mobile phones and the internet. New Countdown signs will be installed at around 2,500 key bus stops.

 

92. The Mayor is pushing ahead strongly with Crossrail helping to ensure the funding needed is provided.

 

93. Boosting the amount of London’s food waste being turned into eco-fuel to cut landfill rates and carbon emissions in an initiative with the Foodwaste to Fuel Alliance.

 

94. Before Boris Johnson was elected the cost of the Olympics was spiralling out of control. As mayor he has worked effectively to keep Olympics on schedule and in budget. The Mayor is pledged to ensure that Londoners pay no more than 38p per week for the Olympics.

 

95. Volunteering is being encouraged. The boy scouts and girl guides are being promoted. Lizzie Noel has been appointed the Mayor's adviser on Social Action and Volunteering and a website has been launched containing a one-stop-shop of volunteering opportunities for Londoners to get involved.

 

96. Measures to help tackle the recession including halving the standard payment period of the GLA group to its small and medium enterprise (SME) suppliers to ten working days.

 

 

97. The Mayoral commitment towards greater transparency has been demonstrated by publishing LDA grants of more than £1,000 on the LDA website. This is to safeguard against cronysim and waste. LDA grants are now going to worthwhile projects. An example is the £1,000 for the Bromley Table Tennis Development Group - one of many grants to promote sport. Some of the grant allocation, such as of the London Youth Offer fund has been delegated to the boroughs.

 

98. The LDA has established CompeteFor - a "dating agency" to help small and medium sized companies compete for the 4,000 Olympic contracts worth £1.7 billion.

 

99. There is more CCTV on London buses. Live CCTV has been brought in on a north London bus route. Twenty one double-decker buses have been fitted with technology, allowing pictures to be beamed live to the Centrecomm control centre shared by officers from Transport for London and the Metropolitan Police’s Transport Operational Command Unit. The technology allows officers to gain access to real-time images of the bus in question when a bus driver on the trial route makes a radio call to the control room. Pictures are beamed via secure and encrypted mobile networks directly from the buses to TfL’s control room. There are 60,000 CCTV cameras operating on the 8,000 London buses.

 

100. Crime mapping has been introduced allowing Londoners to find out about the level of crime in their neighbourhood.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

By the way, there is a good Guardian article where they respond to these, you'll probably want to go and have a look at that.

[saintfully]

By the way, there is a good Guardian article where they respond to these, you'll probably want to go and have a look at that.

 

Hehe, a link would have sufficed, surely?

 

Anyway,

 

101. He's a family/wife-cheating scumbag with stoopid hair !

[pap]

By the way, there is a good Guardian article where they respond to these, you'll probably want to go and have a look at that.

 

The Guardian were also good enough to re-publish Boris' manifesto pledges after they were removed from his site.

 

Important to be able to check against delivery, don't you think?

[KelvinsRightGlove]

Any opinion I have on Boris is informed by his politics, his actions and with this particular politician, his so-called USP, his honesty.

 

You can call it bias if you like. I'm calling it informed opinion, and backing it up with examples. You're defending him on the basis that a normal person wouldn't openly proclaim he was after his boss' job. Not a normal person, and not a normal job.

 

As it goes, I disagree with you. Boris could easily claim he'd want to be PM, and his fans amongst the public would love him for it. He bottled it, and thus invalidated the one thing that people thought made him different. Not only that, it shows him for what he is; an opportunist with zero political courage.

 

I actually feel sorry for you Tories. You wait ages for a Tory government to come around, only get a Tory-led one instead that seems intent on making history with the entry into our first triple-dip recession. The government has performed so poorly that you're falling for Boris' schtick.

 

And you wonder why left-wingers make generalisations about right wingers being stupid

 

Anyways, I'm more than willing to entertain evidence in support of Boris. What are his great political achievements?

 

* buffoonery is not a political achievement

 

I really hate the left. I really really do.

 

They walk around with their heads so far up their own arses they have no idea what is going on, or how actually to solve things.

 

Their perennial answer to absolutely everything is spend more, spend more!!

 

Despite the fact half the world spent too long doing just this, and look where it has landed up. These people that claim they are great intellectuals, and sneer at those that disagree with them claim the answer to a debt crisis is....DEBT. It's truly laughable.

 

They purport to be the party of the working man, so elect a man that publicly supports public sector pay freezes, yet also supports rises in benefit payments.

 

They claim they will get to grips with the deficit, by essentially mimicking the way they made the deficit so high.

 

These are also the same people that call anyone that dares to disagree with them as 'nasty'. Yet left-wingers are some of the most nasty vindictive people when it comes to discussing ideas. If you disagree with them, their first response is either "you're a bigot/stupid/nasty" hmmmmm, mature. Boris is oft accused of being a racist for example, usually by those to ignorant to realise he actually has an indian wife - typical behaviour of a racist.

 

They run around with this marxist idea of the a working mans paradise, and how brilliant a thing Communism would be, and how nasty the right-wingers are and how dangerous they are. Casually skimming over the fact way more people have been brutalised and murdered under Communist regimes.

 

They seem to live in some fantasists world where they imagine up some absolute BS - such as 'the spirit of 45' and magically cut out 34 years of history, where things might go against them.

 

They say that anyone 'on the right' has a negative view of society, yet their idea of a perfect society is one in which a massive state lives out our lives for us, telling us what we can and cannot do, when and where, with cameras everywhere and laws stating we must all carry around cards containing all our genetic information. Because we as humans are capable of living our lives on our own (yes, that is a more positive view of humanity isn't it).

 

I really could go on all day. But I should probably do some work.

 

For the sake of balance, the right are just as full of idiots. And no, I am neither Tory nor Labour, nor Lib Dem.

 

However, this left-liberal bigotry that seems to be everywhere right now is sickening. And based on nothing other than lies.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

The Guardian were also good enough to re-publish Boris' manifesto pledges after they were removed from his site.

 

Important to be able to check against delivery, don't you think?

 

Definitely. First rule of my job.

 

Are you going to reply to my earlier question on who you see as the benchmark to compare him to, and when you stopped liking him?

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

I really hate the left. I really really do.

 

They walk around with their heads so far up their own arses they have no idea what is going on, or how actually to solve things.

 

Their perennial answer to absolutely everything is spend more, spend more!!

 

Despite the fact half the world spent too long doing just this, and look where it has landed up. These people that claim they are great intellectuals, and sneer at those that disagree with them claim the answer to a debt crisis is....DEBT. It's truly laughable.

 

They purport to be the party of the working man, so elect a man that publicly supports public sector pay freezes, yet also supports rises in benefit payments.

 

They claim they will get to grips with the deficit, by essentially mimicking the way they made the deficit so high.

 

These are also the same people that call anyone that dares to disagree with them as 'nasty'. Yet left-wingers are some of the most nasty vindictive people when it comes to discussing ideas. If you disagree with them, their first response is either "you're a bigot/stupid/nasty" hmmmmm, mature. Boris is oft accused of being a racist for example, usually by those to ignorant to realise he actually has an indian wife - typical behaviour of a racist.

 

They run around with this marxist idea of the a working mans paradise, and how brilliant a thing Communism would be, and how nasty the right-wingers are and how dangerous they are. Casually skimming over the fact way more people have been brutalised and murdered under Communist regimes.

 

They seem to live in some fantasists world where they imagine up some absolute BS - such as 'the spirit of 45' and magically cut out 34 years of history, where things might go against them.

 

They say that anyone 'on the right' has a negative view of society, yet their idea of a perfect society is one in which a massive state lives out our lives for us, telling us what we can and cannot do, when and where, with cameras everywhere and laws stating we must all carry around cards containing all our genetic information. Because we as humans are capable of living our lives on our own (yes, that is a more positive view of humanity isn't it).

 

I really could go on all day. But I should probably do some work.

 

For the sake of balance, the right are just as full of idiots. And no, I am neither Tory nor Labour, nor Lib Dem.

 

However, this left-liberal bigotry that seems to be everywhere right now is sickening. And based on nothing other than lies.

 

Whenever I read lefties opinions, I think of this episode of South Park...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smug_Alert!

[KelvinsRightGlove]

A brilliant illustration of my above point are all the lefties that come out with the vile "I'm buying a bottle of champagne the day Margaret Thatcher dies".

 

I studied politics in Leeds, so inevitably there were plenty of people around that would make such comments.

 

It really is a disgusting thing to say about anyone. People talk about her like she was Hitler, or some unhinged dictator, carefully skipping over the fact (a running theme this isn't it?) that she won 3 elections legitimately.

 

I can understand people who may have suffered during this period having strong opinions about her. But the thing that makes it most disgusting is that the majority of people on my course were, inevitably, my age or a year or two old. This means that the majority of students were born around 1987-89 like me (I was born in 89).

 

I know plenty of people that were on my course that say they plan to do this, despite them being about 0-2 years old when she was removed as PM.

 

Sickening.

 

But they are the enlightened ones. Of course.

[OldNick]

it is amazing how uptight people are getting about Boris and his affairs. Of course now the trendy B list celebs etc now have neutered the Redtops the affairs will not come to light.

[trousers]

A brilliant illustration of my above point are all the lefties that come out with the vile "I'm buying a bottle of champagne the day Margaret Thatcher dies".

 

I studied politics in Leeds, so inevitably there were plenty of people around that would make such comments.

 

It really is a disgusting thing to say about anyone. People talk about her like she was Hitler, or some unhinged dictator, carefully skipping over the fact (a running theme this isn't it?) that she won 3 elections legitimately.

 

I can understand people who may have suffered during this period having strong opinions about her. But the thing that makes it most disgusting is that the majority of people on my course were, inevitably, my age or a year or two old. This means that the majority of students were born around 1987-89 like me (I was born in 89).

 

I know plenty of people that were on my course that say they plan to do this, despite them being about 0-2 years old when she was removed as PM.

 

Sickening.

 

But they are the enlightened ones. Of course.

 

Don't get me started on the myths of Thatcherism...

 

Thatcher was the best thing to happen to this country. Fact.

[hypochondriac]

Don't get me started on the myths of Thatcherism...

 

Thatcher was the best thing to happen to this country. Fact.

 

I've always liked you trousers

[pap]

I really hate the left. I really really do.

 

They walk around with their heads so far up their own arses they have no idea what is going on, or how actually to solve things.

 

Their perennial answer to absolutely everything is spend more, spend more!!

 

Despite the fact half the world spent too long doing just this, and look where it has landed up. These people that claim they are great intellectuals, and sneer at those that disagree with them claim the answer to a debt crisis is....DEBT. It's truly laughable.

 

They purport to be the party of the working man, so elect a man that publicly supports public sector pay freezes, yet also supports rises in benefit payments.

 

They claim they will get to grips with the deficit, by essentially mimicking the way they made the deficit so high.

 

These are also the same people that call anyone that dares to disagree with them as 'nasty'. Yet left-wingers are some of the most nasty vindictive people when it comes to discussing ideas. If you disagree with them, their first response is either "you're a bigot/stupid/nasty" hmmmmm, mature. Boris is oft accused of being a racist for example, usually by those to ignorant to realise he actually has an indian wife - typical behaviour of a racist.

 

They run around with this marxist idea of the a working mans paradise, and how brilliant a thing Communism would be, and how nasty the right-wingers are and how dangerous they are. Casually skimming over the fact way more people have been brutalised and murdered under Communist regimes.

 

They seem to live in some fantasists world where they imagine up some absolute BS - such as 'the spirit of 45' and magically cut out 34 years of history, where things might go against them.

 

They say that anyone 'on the right' has a negative view of society, yet their idea of a perfect society is one in which a massive state lives out our lives for us, telling us what we can and cannot do, when and where, with cameras everywhere and laws stating we must all carry around cards containing all our genetic information. Because we as humans are capable of living our lives on our own (yes, that is a more positive view of humanity isn't it).

 

I really could go on all day. But I should probably do some work.

 

For the sake of balance, the right are just as full of idiots. And no, I am neither Tory nor Labour, nor Lib Dem.

 

However, this left-liberal bigotry that seems to be everywhere right now is sickening. And based on nothing other than lies.

 

Let's address this self-defeating nonsense, shall we?

 

You start out by claiming you hate a group of people. You then claim that this group of people have no idea on how to solve things. I'm sure that myself and every other left winger in the tech industry would take issue with your ill-informed comments. Professionally, I haven't met a problem yet that I didn't solve. It's kind of what I do.

 

Your "the answer to everything is spend more" comment. That's a left-wing argument as dreamed up by an irredeemable capitalist who takes this fictive financial system to be a point of truth. It isn't. Some people made it up; they and their progeny have done very well out of it over the last 300 years.

 

Then you go on to conflate left-wing with Labour, something it hasn't been since John Smith died. Our debts got as high as they did because our money was used to bail out the criminals in the banking sector, with, I might add, the tacit agreement of all parties in Parliament ( no-one wanted to rock the neo-liberal boat ). You talk about Communist countries like they actually existed ( dictatorships wearing the Commie brand, mostly ).

 

You present this tissue of straw-man argument and omission and attempt to criticise my intellectual integrity? Some front, kid.

 

The simple truth is that you don't know what the left is.

Edited 26 March, 2013 by pap

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Let's address this self-defeating nonsense, shall we?

 

You start out by claiming you hate a group of people. You then claim that this group of people have no idea on how to solve things. I'm sure that myself and every other left winger in the tech industry would take issue with your ill-informed comments. Professionally, I haven't met a problem yet that I didn't solve. It's kind of what I do.

 

Your "the answer to everything is spend more". That's a left-wing argument as seen by an irredeemable capitalist who takes this fictive financial system to be a point of truth. It isn't. Some people made it up; they and their progeny have done very well out of it over the last 300 years.

 

Then you go on to conflate left-wing with Labour, something it hasn't been since John Smith died. Our debts got as high as they did because our money was used to bail out the criminals in the banking sector, with, I might add, the tacit agreement of all parties in Parliament ( no-one wanted to rock the neo-liberal boat ). You talk about Communist countries like they actually existed ( dictatorships wearing the Commie brand, mostly ).

 

You present this tissue of straw-man argument and omission and attempt to criticise my intellectual integrity? Some front, kid.

 

The simple truth is that you don't know what the left is.

 

The simple truth is he doesn't know what your interpretation of the left is. If there is a definitive, factual left then please let us know.

 

In addition I presume you can't answer my questions considering you keep ignoring them.

[hypochondriac]

The simple truth is he doesn't know what your interpretation of the left is. If there is a definitive, factual left then please let us know.

 

In addition I presume you can't answer my questions considering you keep ignoring them.

 

He ignored both of my responses too.

[pap]

Chaps, genuinely not ignoring you deliberately. Will get back to both of you as time permits.

[Tamesaint]

Lastnight's documentary showed him up for what I have long suspected about him: a devious, conniving s***bag who will say and do anything to perpetuate his cheeky-chappy, lovable buffoon image, while being anything but. Millions of people seem to have been taken in by his apparent charm, but not me.

 

If he ever gets to be PM, I'm emigrating.

 

 

I agree entirely

[CB Saint]

70. LEDs are being installed at 3,500 traffic lights at around 300 junctions in the Capital. LED technology can reduce electricity consumption and the associated CO2 emissions that cause climate change by a massive 60 per cent.

 

71. £375,000 is being provided over the next three years to open a new rape crisis centre in west London. £260,000 of funding has been allocated for the Rape and Sexual Abuse Support Centre (RASAC) in Croydon. Altogether there will be four rape crisis centres - there was just one under Ken Livingstone for a city of seven million people.

 

72. 42 public buildings in the GLA Group are being given an eco-makeover. Wembley police station has led the way with solar photovoltaic roof panels.

 

73. Boris Johnson appeared in EastEnders visiting the Queen Vic.

 

74. Foreign travel costs for the Mayor’s office were reduced from £107,000 in 2007-08 to £30,000 in 2008-09, while the rest of the GLA reduced its costs from £102,000 to £28,000. A saving of £151,000.

 

75. Ten delegates attended party conferences in 2008-09, at a total cost (including attendance, advertising, stands, etc.) of £9,000, compared with 19 delegates in 2007-08 at a cost of £43,000. Saving £34,000.

 

76. Reduction in expenditure on GLA consultants - reducing from £4.7m in 2007-08 to £2.8m in 2008-09. Saving £1.9m

 

77. Income from the hire of London’s Living Room at City Hall has increased from £145,000 in 2007-08 to £167,000 in 2008-09 as a result of stopping the policy of allowing preferred groups and organisations to use it for free. Saving £20,000

 

78. The London Development Agency has introduced "a more streamlined staffing structure" - saving £6.6m.

 

79. Overall crime on the Tube and DLR is down by 8%. Robbery is down by 29.2%, violent crime is down 2.6% and public disorder offences are down by 4.5%.

 

80. Londoners on Job Seeker’s Allowance and the new Employment and Support Allowance now benefit from half price travel on the buses. This is to help people who have recently lost their jobs bounce back quickly, by being able to travel cheaply to interviews, and access libraries and job centres.

 

81. Funding has been found to train and recruit 10,000 Specials Constables by 2012. The numbers are due to increase by 2,690 over the next three years.

 

82. Major retailers including Sainsbury’s, John Lewis, Tesco, Marks & Spencer and Borders have signed up to the ‘Open London’ scheme. The aim is to increase access to public lavatories. These businesses allow the public to use their lavatories, where available, without the need to make a purchase.

 

83. Cancellation of the ‘Beijing Bus’ saving £160,000.

 

84. For the coming year's budget £100 million of new savings within the police service will be delivered by deploying staff and resources more effectively and bearing down on overtime costs, while continuing to improve front-line policing.

 

85. Savings of £100,000 a year in the cost of the London Assembly.

 

86. There are Northern line improvements with a new control centre and computerised signalling system, scheduled to be delivered in 2012. This will enable trains to run closer together and at higher speeds, cutting journey times by 18 per cent and increasing capacity by 20 per cent.

 

87. To cool tube trains in summer various improvements are being carried out, including restoring ventilation fans and installing mechanical chillers and portable summer fans.

 

88. On the Docklands Light Railway a total of 55 new carriages have been ordered, expanding trains from two to three cars and giving a 50 per cent capacity increase by June 2010.

 

89. Held biggest ever St George's Day event on Trafalgar Square - 20,000 attended.

 

90. Put cultural supremo, Tony Hall, Chief Executive of the Royal Opera House, in charge of the Cultural Olympiad in 2012.

 

91. By summer the new generation of the Countdown system will increase bus customers’ access to real-time information for all of the 19,000 bus stops and 700 routes in London via mobile phones and the internet. New Countdown signs will be installed at around 2,500 key bus stops.

 

92. The Mayor is pushing ahead strongly with Crossrail helping to ensure the funding needed is provided.

 

93. Boosting the amount of London’s food waste being turned into eco-fuel to cut landfill rates and carbon emissions in an initiative with the Foodwaste to Fuel Alliance.

 

94. Before Boris Johnson was elected the cost of the Olympics was spiralling out of control. As mayor he has worked effectively to keep Olympics on schedule and in budget. The Mayor is pledged to ensure that Londoners pay no more than 38p per week for the Olympics.

 

95. Volunteering is being encouraged. The boy scouts and girl guides are being promoted. Lizzie Noel has been appointed the Mayor's adviser on Social Action and Volunteering and a website has been launched containing a one-stop-shop of volunteering opportunities for Londoners to get involved.

 

96. Measures to help tackle the recession including halving the standard payment period of the GLA group to its small and medium enterprise (SME) suppliers to ten working days.

 

 

97. The Mayoral commitment towards greater transparency has been demonstrated by publishing LDA grants of more than £1,000 on the LDA website. This is to safeguard against cronysim and waste. LDA grants are now going to worthwhile projects. An example is the £1,000 for the Bromley Table Tennis Development Group - one of many grants to promote sport. Some of the grant allocation, such as of the London Youth Offer fund has been delegated to the boroughs.

 

98. The LDA has established CompeteFor - a "dating agency" to help small and medium sized companies compete for the 4,000 Olympic contracts worth £1.7 billion.

 

99. There is more CCTV on London buses. Live CCTV has been brought in on a north London bus route. Twenty one double-decker buses have been fitted with technology, allowing pictures to be beamed live to the Centrecomm control centre shared by officers from Transport for London and the Metropolitan Police’s Transport Operational Command Unit. The technology allows officers to gain access to real-time images of the bus in question when a bus driver on the trial route makes a radio call to the control room. Pictures are beamed via secure and encrypted mobile networks directly from the buses to TfL’s control room. There are 60,000 CCTV cameras operating on the 8,000 London buses.

 

100. Crime mapping has been introduced allowing Londoners to find out about the level of crime in their neighbourhood.

 

well apart from all that, what has boris ever done for us

[pap]

The simple truth is he doesn't know what your interpretation of the left is. If there is a definitive, factual left then please let us know.

 

In addition I presume you can't answer my questions considering you keep ignoring them.

 

It's odd, really. The one thing that I thought I did bang on about all the time is my politics. I've even started threads on this very subject, which you have participated in.

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?36126-What-the-hell-does-left-wing-or-right-wing-mean-in-2012

 

If my politics aren't clear enough from all the stuff I write here, do tell. I can always bang on more about it.

 

I'd like to address the questions that you think I'm dodging

 

I stopped liking Boris when reports of him in action started to filter through. It's the contrast, y'see. What business does a light-hearted buffoon have being incandescent with rage in a lift, repeatedly screaming "You're a f**king liar" to Ken Livingstone? How about his performance at City Hall? I know he was provoked by the actions of the wily Labour council, but that's the sort of response you'd expect from someone receiving a custodial sentence, not the mayor of the capital. Seeing just how far apart the two Boris' are is what did it for me. I don't trust him, I don't believe he is what he presents himself to be, and I certainly don't trust his hand on the tiller of this government. The whole clown act is a massive affectation designed to disguise the fact that he is, as Eddie Mair asked him if he was, a nasty piece of work. It's not even a new trick, either - plenty of former despots began their careers in political clown colleges.

 

As to your second unanswerable question, who is a decent benchmark to compare him with? That's easy. I'd rather have Cameron than Johnson. Despite the fact that he's been absent for some major crises and his shedding of the "green boy" act, I know where I stand with the b*stard. He is also capable of considerable grace; I have been particularly impressed with the way he has tried to build bridges with Ireland and the victims of the Hillsborough cover-up. I have also got a reasonable degree of confidence that he's not going to behave like a total arse.

 

Really can't say the same about Boris. Wouldn't like to let his populist wit-cannon near any foreign policy issue, the man has had his problems with Liverpool before and he turned up at that Eddie Mair interview apparently dressed as a flump.

[pap]

He ignored both of my responses too.

 

Sorry hypo, couldn't find your responses. I think you were deftly disarmed of the notion that people don't vote for idiots by Ken Tone.

 

The rest of the thread has been made murkier by DPS's long list of unsourced Boris cheevos

[Viking Warrior]

Anything is better than milliband balls clegg and Cameron in that order . I certainly would prefer a Buffon the millipede

[KelvinsRightGlove]

Let's address this self-defeating nonsense, shall we?

 

You start out by claiming you hate a group of people. You then claim that this group of people have no idea on how to solve things. I'm sure that myself and every other left winger in the tech industry would take issue with your ill-informed comments. Professionally, I haven't met a problem yet that I didn't solve. It's kind of what I do.

 

Your "the answer to everything is spend more" comment. That's a left-wing argument as dreamed up by an irredeemable capitalist who takes this fictive financial system to be a point of truth. It isn't. Some people made it up; they and their progeny have done very well out of it over the last 300 years.

 

Then you go on to conflate left-wing with Labour, something it hasn't been since John Smith died. Our debts got as high as they did because our money was used to bail out the criminals in the banking sector, with, I might add, the tacit agreement of all parties in Parliament ( no-one wanted to rock the neo-liberal boat ). You talk about Communist countries like they actually existed ( dictatorships wearing the Commie brand, mostly ).

 

You present this tissue of straw-man argument and omission and attempt to criticise my intellectual integrity? Some front, kid.

 

The simple truth is that you don't know what the left is.

 

There has never been true communism.

 

Such an oft quoted phrase from all the lefties.

 

Why is that? Is that because they decide they don't like the form it inevitably takes? i.e. a state controlling the distribution of everyone and everything within it, and then are surprised to realise that actually the whole premise is fundamentally flawed.

 

It's funny how all these communist regimes are simply dismissed, as they don't match up to the fantasist ideal Marx dreamed up. Yet if this were such a truly enlightened way, why has it never taken on anywhere? Why have all the disenfranchised masses not risen up and demanded communism some 150 years after it's manifest was printed?

 

Is it because it doesn't work? Or is it because no one actually wants it?

 

You claim my spend more comment is wrong, show me one politician that claims to have a leftist persuasion who right now is not advocating an increase in borrowing and increase in spending? Prove me wrong, and I will apologise and retract the statement.

 

To dismiss me as ill-informed simply because you disagree with me is a bit silly. I have a degree in politics and economics. I have worked for both Labour and the Tories, at national and council level for both sides, in addition to Lib Dem councillors. Further to this I have also worked in the states for both Democrat & Republican politicians, including working personally for Rick Santorum.

 

If you disagree, fair enough. But, I really am not ill-informed.

[pap]

There has never been true communism.

 

Such an oft quoted phrase from all the lefties.

 

Why is that? Is that because they decide they don't like the form it inevitably takes? i.e. a state controlling the distribution of everyone and everything within it, and then are surprised to realise that actually the whole premise is fundamentally flawed.

 

It's funny how all these communist regimes are simply dismissed, as they don't match up to the fantasist ideal Marx dreamed up. Yet if this were such a truly enlightened way, why has it never taken on anywhere? Why have all the disenfranchised masses not risen up and demanded communism some 150 years after it's manifest was printed?

 

Is it because it doesn't work? Or is it because no one actually wants it?

 

You claim my spend more comment is wrong, show me one politician that claims to have a leftist persuasion who right now is not advocating an increase in borrowing and increase in spending? Prove me wrong, and I will apologise and retract the statement.

 

To dismiss me as ill-informed simply because you disagree with me is a bit silly. I have a degree in politics and economics. I have worked for both Labour and the Tories, at national and council level for both sides, in addition to Lib Dem councillors. Further to this I have also worked in the states for both Democrat & Republican politicians, including working personally for Rick Santorum.

 

If you disagree, fair enough. But, I really am not ill-informed.

 

It's probably oft-quoted because it's true.

 

I'm not sure what part of Marxism-Leninism mandated that the state kills tens of millions of its own citizens, nor do I get how China is a communist state in any way. There's bugger all wrong with the ideals of a planned economy, but when it is being used as a plaything of the oligarchy ( as vested in the high ranking party members ), then I think you can safely say that the ideals of Marx weren't really being meaningfully adhered to. This is not fresh news. Trotsky wrote about the betrayal of the revolution in the 1930s, eventually paying the price for his continued criticism.

 

Communist societies have "worked" for millennia, in that people have worked for shared interest. Marxist societies never got off the ground, and as for their lack of popularity, I'd probably say that's got a great deal to do with having communist missiles aimed at us for several decades, and the fact that over the years, the term has become synonymous with oppression because of the activities of the regimes that claim to practice it. And let's not forget, life has been pretty good to those of us in Western states, especially during the Cold War, where capitalism was almost seen as synonymous with freedom.

 

Times change and history runs in a cycle. See the problem with capitalism is that eventually, inevitably, it teams up with concepts such as inheritance, population increases, immigration and globalisation to create a situation where the gap between rich and poor is a chasm. For decades, that gap has been maintainable. More opportunity, easier to buy your own house. Now look at us. Everything is made elsewhere and we're outsourcing our jobs at a rate of knots. Money is tighter than ever for most people, so consumer demand for low cost drives even more jobs away. Worse still, the government knows this, so it bends over backwards for business to get them to come here in the first place. It's the perfect storm.

 

You are ill-informed because you accept all this crap as a point of truth. I don't care how many neo-liberal corporate apologists you've lined up with. None of them are doing anything to address the fundamental issues of our age; that corporations and central banks have become the apex of world control, new kingdoms if you like, and they're utterly powerless to do anything about it. You're ill-informed because you accept the game at face value, or worse, an atomic unbreakable concept. It isn't. It's all made up. There's no good reason why n% of our income is paying debts back to a sector that we spent money to save. We are literally throwing good money after bad. There isn't a party in Parliament that isn't fully signed up to perpetual membership of the broken financial system, nor is there a voting system to deliver one.

 

The game is rigged, sir. It is a hierarchical pyramid scheme in which a tiny percentage of the world's population get to control the vast majority of the world's resources and through media, get to tell you it's not happening.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

It's probably oft-quoted because it's true.

 

I'm not sure what part of Marxism-Leninism mandated that the state kills tens of millions of its own citizens, nor do I get how China is a communist state in any way. There's bugger all wrong with the ideals of a planned economy, but when it is being used as a plaything of the oligarchy ( as vested in the high ranking party members ), then I think you can safely say that the ideals of Marx weren't really being meaningfully adhered to. This is not fresh news. Trotsky wrote about the betrayal of the revolution in the 1930s, eventually paying the price for his continued criticism.

 

Communist societies have "worked" for millennia, in that people have worked for shared interest. Marxist societies never got off the ground, and as for their lack of popularity, I'd probably say that's got a great deal to do with having communist missiles aimed at us for several decades, and the fact that over the years, the term has become synonymous with oppression because of the activities of the regimes that claim to practice it. And let's not forget, life has been pretty good to those of us in Western states, especially during the Cold War, where capitalism was almost seen as synonymous with freedom.

 

Times change and history runs in a cycle. See the problem with capitalism is that eventually, inevitably, it teams up with concepts such as inheritance, population increases, immigration and globalisation to create a situation where the gap between rich and poor is a chasm. For decades, that gap has been maintainable. More opportunity, easier to buy your own house. Now look at us. Everything is made elsewhere and we're outsourcing our jobs at a rate of knots. Money is tighter than ever for most people, so consumer demand for low cost drives even more jobs away. Worse still, the government knows this, so it bends over backwards for business to get them to come here in the first place. It's the perfect storm.

 

You are ill-informed because you accept all this crap as a point of truth. I don't care how many neo-liberal corporate apologists you've lined up with. None of them are doing anything to address the fundamental issues of our age; that corporations and central banks have become the apex of world control, new kingdoms if you like, and they're utterly powerless to do anything about it. You're ill-informed because you accept the game at face value, or worse, an atomic unbreakable concept. It isn't. It's all made up. There's no good reason why n% of our income is paying debts back to a sector that we spent money to save. We are literally throwing good money after bad. There isn't a party in Parliament that isn't fully signed up to perpetual membership of the broken financial system, nor is there a voting system to deliver one.

 

The game is rigged, sir. It is a hierarchical pyramid scheme in which a tiny percentage of the world's population get to control the vast majority of the world's resources and through media, get to tell you it's not happening.

 

 

So if you agree with something that gets said all the time, it's because it's true. If it is something you disagree with it's a fallacy? Slight hypocrisy there pal.

 

What am I accepting as a point of truth? I am fully aware of what is going on, and the way things are run. The reason I worked for so many varied people was to see first hand how things work, and be able to form an opinion of my own, from what I have seen and learned - by very definition sir, this is informed. Again, if you don't like what I say, fine. But by dismissing my experience and knowledge, merely proves my initial point. Can you not see the hypocrisy in you accusing me of insulting your intelligence, despite you first calling the right stupid, and then saying the things I have seen and learnt first hand are irrelevant?

 

If I had no knowledge of these things other than what I had seen on the tele/read in the papers yet was sat agreeing with you, would you still be calling me ill-informed.

 

The above was only a criticism of the left, trust me, I can write just as much on the right.

 

I don't argue that vested interests strangle power, and manipulate it for itself. Show me where I have said as such? Large sections of the left are just as guilty of this as the rest of the political spectrum.

 

It just really gets my goat the way lefties run around claiming to be some higher beings, sneering at the rest of the world. Whilst simultaneously claiming they are the enlightened ones, with all the answers, when what they subscribe to inevitably leads to exactly the same thing.

 

I am perfectly aware that there is nothing in Marxist literature about brutalising & killing millions of people. The same way any religious teachings wouldn't, but it happens.

 

Yes the system is broken, and you can sit in your ivory tower, clinging to fantasist lefty-ideals that don't work in the real world sneering at anyone that has the temerity to disagree with you. But left, right, centre, they are all as culpable as each other.

[hypochondriac]

Can everyone stop calling everyone else sir? It's disconcerting.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

Can everyone stop calling everyone else sir? It's disconcerting.

 

Sorry sir.

[hypochondriac]

Sorry sir.

 

This isn't a peanuts cartoon...

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

 

So if you agree with something that gets said all the time, it's because it's true. If it is something you disagree with it's a fallacy? Slight hypocrisy there pal.

 

What am I accepting as a point of truth? I am fully aware of what is going on, and the way things are run. The reason I worked for so many varied people was to see first hand how things work, and be able to form an opinion of my own, from what I have seen and learned - by very definition sir, this is informed. Again, if you don't like what I say, fine. But by dismissing my experience and knowledge, merely proves my initial point. Can you not see the hypocrisy in you accusing me of insulting your intelligence, despite you first calling the right stupid, and then saying the things I have seen and learnt first hand are irrelevant?

 

If I had no knowledge of these things other than what I had seen on the tele/read in the papers yet was sat agreeing with you, would you still be calling me ill-informed.

 

The above was only a criticism of the left, trust me, I can write just as much on the right.

 

I don't argue that vested interests strangle power, and manipulate it for itself. Show me where I have said as such? Large sections of the left are just as guilty of this as the rest of the political spectrum.

 

It just really gets my goat the way lefties run around claiming to be some higher beings, sneering at the rest of the world. Whilst simultaneously claiming they are the enlightened ones, with all the answers, when what they subscribe to inevitably leads to exactly the same thing.

 

I am perfectly aware that there is nothing in Marxist literature about brutalising & killing millions of people. The same way any religious teachings wouldn't, but it happens.

 

Yes the system is broken, and you can sit in your ivory tower, clinging to fantasist lefty-ideals that don't work in the real world sneering at anyone that has the temerity to disagree with you. But left, right, centre, they are all as culpable as each other.

 

What I do find funny is that lefties don't realise the rest of the political spectrum sits there and laughs at them as they lap up the smell their on farts...

[pap]

 

So if you agree with something that gets said all the time, it's because it's true. If it is something you disagree with it's a fallacy? Slight hypocrisy there pal.

 

What am I accepting as a point of truth? I am fully aware of what is going on, and the way things are run. The reason I worked for so many varied people was to see first hand how things work, and be able to form an opinion of my own, from what I have seen and learned - by very definition sir, this is informed. Again, if you don't like what I say, fine. But by dismissing my experience and knowledge, merely proves my initial point. Can you not see the hypocrisy in you accusing me of insulting your intelligence, despite you first calling the right stupid, and then saying the things I have seen and learnt first hand are irrelevant?

 

If I had no knowledge of these things other than what I had seen on the tele/read in the papers yet was sat agreeing with you, would you still be calling me ill-informed.

 

The above was only a criticism of the left, trust me, I can write just as much on the right.

 

I don't argue that vested interests strangle power, and manipulate it for itself. Show me where I have said as such? Large sections of the left are just as guilty of this as the rest of the political spectrum.

 

It just really gets my goat the way lefties run around claiming to be some higher beings, sneering at the rest of the world. Whilst simultaneously claiming they are the enlightened ones, with all the answers, when what they subscribe to inevitably leads to exactly the same thing.

 

I am perfectly aware that there is nothing in Marxist literature about brutalising & killing millions of people. The same way any religious teachings wouldn't, but it happens.

 

Yes the system is broken, and you can sit in your ivory tower, clinging to fantasist lefty-ideals that don't work in the real world sneering at anyone that has the temerity to disagree with you. But left, right, centre, they are all as culpable as each other.

 

Mate, I'm not seriously going to debate this while you continue to make generalisations. You paint the left as one giant blob, say you hate them all. You're also culpable of projecting your own ignorance of a situation onto the wider whole, as evidenced by your statement that all left-wingers buy into this financial system and see the answer as spend, spend, spend. That, and your "everything is f**ked and nothing will fix it".

 

Really though; you're just unhappy with the ill-informed label.

 

And for the record

 

i) I asked whether it was any wonder that the left made generalisations about the right being stupid. I didn't call you or the right stupid.

ii) You accept neo-liberalism and the financial system as a point of truth

iii) I'm not sneering at anyone. Your team won, remember. I'm just amazed that so many people are content to be butt-f*cked and stick up for their rapists.

Edited 27 March, 2013 by pap

[pap]

What I do find funny is that lefties don't realise the rest of the political spectrum sits there and laughs at them as they lap up the smell their on farts...

 

And people wonder why the left generalise the right as stupid.

 

I bet you lap all this demonisation of the unfortunate sh!t right up, dontcha?

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

And people wonder why the left generalise the right as stupid.

 

I bet you lap all this demonisation of the unfortunate sh!t right up, dontcha?

 

No they don't, people know why the left generalise the right as stupid. It's due to the way the left feel they are above (both morally and intellectually) than the rest of the political spectrum. You can carry on doing that, it's a lefties raison detre.

 

However, it'll be very interesting to see a cross-section of IQ's of those that support the left and right, because I know which one will be coming out as 'stoopid'.

Edited 27 March, 2013 by Dibden Purlieu Saint

[bridge too far]

No they don't, people know why the left generalise the right as stupid. It's due to the way the left feel they are above (both morally and intellectually) than the rest of the political spectrum. You can carry on doing that, it's a lefties raison detre.

 

However, it'll be very interesting to see a cross-section of IQ's of those that support the left and right, because I know which one will be coming out as 'stoopid'.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2095549/Right-wingers-intelligent-left-wingers-says-controversial-study--conservative-politics-lead-people-racist.html

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2095549/Right-wingers-intelligent-left-wingers-says-controversial-study--conservative-politics-lead-people-racist.html

 

Well, there we go!

[WindsorSaint]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2095549/Right-wingers-intelligent-left-wingers-says-controversial-study--conservative-politics-lead-people-racist.html

 

Just what you'd expect from the airy-fairy, arty-farty, hoity-toity, namby-pamby, wishy-washy Daily Mail...

 

WS

[pap]

Well, there we go!

 

 

Can I borrow that petard when you've finished auto-hoisting, ta?

[KelvinsRightGlove]

Mate, I'm not seriously going to debate this while you continue to make generalisations. You paint the left as one giant blob, say you hate them all. You're also culpable of projecting your own ignorance onto a situation onto the wider whole, as evidenced by your statement that all left-wingers buy into this financial system and see the answer as spend, spend, spend. That, and your "everything is f**ked and nothing will fix it".

 

Really though; you're just unhappy with the ill-informed label.

 

And for the record

 

i) I asked whether it was any wonder that the left made generalisations about the right being stupid. I didn't call you or the right stupid.

ii) You accept neo-liberalism and the financial system as a point of truth

iii) I'm not sneering at anyone. Your team won, remember. I'm just amazed that so many people are content to be butt-f*cked and stick up for their rapists.

 

Ok true, it is unfair to paint 'the left' as one. I'll accept that.

 

There are of course various differing groups/factions on the left, and yes I was talking in general terms.

 

My team? Seriously, I do not count messers Cameron/Osborne my team. In fact, I find it hard to see much difference in any politician, either side of the house.

 

When you stand, and seriously put forward actual change to the system, I will be on that team. Perhaps with differing views on the way to achieve this, but hey. That's how it goes.

 

Despite this, I am a pragmatist, and would still like to see smaller changes that can improve the currently entrenched system work better for more.

 

c'mon Papman, we're friends really.

 

Hug it out?

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Can I borrow that petard when you've finished auto-hoisting, ta?

 

In English please?

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Also interesting:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2097652/Does-low-IQ-make-right-wing-That-depends-define-left-right.html

 

"As Steven Pinker points out in The Better Angels of our Nature, his marvellous book about the history of violence, social liberalism does not equate necessarily with economic socialism. He points to a study by the economist Bryan Caplan, an economist at George Mason University in Virginia, who found that smart people tend to think like economists, being in favour of free trade, globalisation and free markets and against protectionism and state intervention in industry. This matches other findings that show that IQ correlates not with left-wing thinking as such, but with classic Enlightenment liberalism.

 

So a smart person (all else being equal) will probably be in favour of capitalism generally, and free-trade in particular. He or she will distrust state intervention in the markets, probably be suspicious of welfarism and deeply dislike protectionism, union closed-shops and tariffs. The smart person will believe that the have-nots should be encouraged to become haves by dint of their own labours and by the levelling of economic playing fields, NOT by taking money off the haves and giving it to them. In other words, Thatcherism. Hardly something we equate with the left.

 

 

But there is another side to what the Smarts believe. They are pro-immigration (immigration being a form of free trade, in this case in human labour). They are impeccably socially liberal. They do not care what consenting adults get up to in bed and would legalise gay marriage without a thought. They are as near as is possible to be colour blind and strongly favour sexual equality. They are internationalist and despise petty nationalism. And they are suspicious of the war on drugs and in fact of wars in general and do not believe the public should in general be allowed to own firearms. These are the social views, then, of the British metropolitan Left. So what is it then? Are dim people right or left? Here we meet the problem of defining liberalism and left-wingery.

 

A belief in economic redistribution of wealth does not correlate with social liberalism. The nations of the Cold War Communist bloc were ferociously ‘Left Wing’ in terms of a belief in statism, nationalised industries, basic equality and so forth but socially and in other ways they were far, far to the ‘right’ of any mainstream European or American party."

 

So it turns out that we want left wingers to run our morals, and right wingers to run the country...

Edited 27 March, 2013 by Dibden Purlieu Saint

[trousers]

Also interesting:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2097652/Does-low-IQ-make-right-wing-That-depends-define-left-right.html

 

"As Steven Pinker points out in The Better Angels of our Nature, his marvellous book about the history of violence, social liberalism does not equate necessarily with economic socialism. He points to a study by the economist Bryan Caplan, an economist at George Mason University in Virginia, who found that smart people tend to think like economists, being in favour of free trade, globalisation and free markets and against protectionism and state intervention in industry. This matches other findings that show that IQ correlates not with left-wing thinking as such, but with classic Enlightenment liberalism.

 

So a smart person (all else being equal) will probably be in favour of capitalism generally, and free-trade in particular. He or she will distrust state intervention in the markets, probably be suspicious of welfarism and deeply dislike protectionism, union closed-shops and tariffs. The smart person will believe that the have-nots should be encouraged to become haves by dint of their own labours and by the levelling of economic playing fields, NOT by taking money off the haves and giving it to them. In other words, Thatcherism. Hardly something we equate with the left.

 

 

But there is another side to what the Smarts believe. They are pro-immigration (immigration being a form of free trade, in this case in human labour). They are impeccably socially liberal. They do not care what consenting adults get up to in bed and would legalise gay marriage without a thought. They are as near as is possible to be colour blind and strongly favour sexual equality. They are internationalist and despise petty nationalism. And they are suspicious of the war on drugs and in fact of wars in general and do not believe the public should in general be allowed to own firearms. These are the social views, then, of the British metropolitan Left. So what is it then? Are dim people right or left? Here we meet the problem of defining liberalism and left-wingery.

 

A belief in economic redistribution of wealth does not correlate with social liberalism. The nations of the Cold War Communist bloc were ferociously ‘Left Wing’ in terms of a belief in statism, nationalised industries, basic equality and so forth but socially and in other ways they were far, far to the ‘right’ of any mainstream European or American party."

 

So it turns out that we want left wingers to run our morals, and right wingers to run the country...

 

Phew. It turns out I'm clever after all.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

I found this somewhere

 

 

 

An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had recently failed an entire class. That class had insisted that Obama's socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.

 

The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama's plan".. All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade so no one will fail and no one will receive an A.... (substituting grades for dollars - something closer to home and more readily understood by all).

 

After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little.

 

The second test average was a D! No one was happy.

When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F.

 

As the tests proceeded, the scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else.

 

To their great surprise, ALL FAILED and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed. Could not be any simpler than that. (Please pass this on) These are possibly the 5 best sentences you'll ever read and all applicable to this experiment:

 

1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

 

2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.

 

3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.

 

4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!

 

5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.

[hypochondriac]

I guess that explains why you are could sergei...

[pap]

Do you right wingers have any views of your own or is it all borrowed wisdom?

[Bearsy]

I found this somewhere

 

 

 

An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had recently failed an entire class. That class had insisted that Obama's socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.

 

The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama's plan".. All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade so no one will fail and no one will receive an A.... (substituting grades for dollars - something closer to home and more readily understood by all).

 

After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little.

 

The second test average was a D! No one was happy.

When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F.

 

As the tests proceeded, the scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else.

 

To their great surprise, ALL FAILED and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed. Could not be any simpler than that. (Please pass this on) These are possibly the 5 best sentences you'll ever read and all applicable to this experiment:

 

1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

 

2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.

 

3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.

 

4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!

 

5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.

 

is clearly made up story but u can see how it would go down like that.

 

where it is wrong tho is in socialisms as i understand it the state has death squads going round making sure people is working hard. I'm sure students would have studied harder if there was liberal death squads involved.

[pap]

is clearly made up story but u can see how it would go down like that.

 

where it is wrong tho is in socialisms as i understand it the state has death squads going round making sure people is working hard. I'm sure students would have studied harder if there was liberal death squads involved.

 

 

Not biting.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

 

Not biting.

 

We still fwends paps?

 

[pap]

We still fwends paps?

 

 

Only if you're not saying the word fwends the Inbetweeners way.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

Only if you're not saying the word fwends the Inbetweeners way.

 

I hate the Inbetweeners more than I hate lefties.

[Bearsy]

inbetweeners is hilarious you weirdos! People who quote inbetweeners i grant u can be v.annoying. Will prob votes with KRG and Simon prob votes for Carly and Jay prob votes with pap and neil prob spoiled ballot paper