Lord Duckhunter Posted 21 May, 2017 Author Share Posted 21 May, 2017 The way I look at it is this . Every team plays each other twice. The best team win the league, the second best team finish second etc etc . This year we were the 8 th best team in England. Same as we were under Poch Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 21 May, 2017 Share Posted 21 May, 2017 The way I look at it is this . Every team plays each other twice. The best team win the league, the second best team finish second etc etc . This year we were the 8 th best team in England. Same as we were under Poch Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk An incredibly simplistic way of looking at it to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 21 May, 2017 Share Posted 21 May, 2017 The way I look at it is this . Every team plays each other twice. The best team win the league, the second best team finish second etc etc . This year we were the 8 th best team in England. Same as we were under Poch That's saying that 8th on 46pts is the same as 8th on 61pts. Its not the position but the complete lack of entertainment that is my problem. Hull at home sums it up for me. The worst game that I have seen for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKD Posted 21 May, 2017 Share Posted 21 May, 2017 So now we have facts rather than opinions to judge the season , and we can look back on this thread to see how the season panned out, and see who was happy with 8th. Facts First full seaso in English football, Poch 8th and no cup final Fist full season in English football Koeman 7th no cup final Claude 8th plus cup final . As my old man used to tell me, you can't argue with facts. Opinion is opinion, but facts are facts. Well done Claude Puel, we'd have all taken that in Aug Come on then, let's look at the facts... Poch - improved our league position from 14th to 8th - fact - 8 points off the top 7 - fact - 6 points off 10th Koeman - improved our league position from 8th to 7th then 6th - fact - 12 points ahead of 10th (14/15 season) - fact Puel - decreased league position from 6th to 8th (although decrease to be expected) - fact - 15 points (practically 16 with GD) off top 7 - fact - 1 points off 10th - 17 goals at home this season - fact - a number of players unhappy - fact (I know it is) - 2 out of 3 targets set this season failed - fact (well according to Puel in his press conference) - cup final yes, winner no - fact (do you get anything for runners up? Nope) As you said, you can't argue the facts and this seasons facts show that we've gone backward, under Puel, compared to last two managers. Oh well, Was told (not by my usual contact, so I'm taking with a pinch of salt, but I have no reason to doubt and they are fairly credible) that Puel's gone (decisions been made pretty much... think it may have come from Kat believe it or not). Looking likely at this stage thatSsilva will get it, so I assume that he is the manager AR10 and Ericb mentioned the other day. Im still hopeful that we will hold off to see who else becomes available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted 21 May, 2017 Share Posted 21 May, 2017 Come on then, let's look at the facts... Poch - improved our league position from 14th to 8th - fact - 8 points off the top 7 - fact - 6 points off 10th Koeman - improved our league position from 8th to 7th then 6th - fact - 12 points ahead of 10th (14/15 season) - fact Puel - decreased league position from 6th to 8th (although decrease to be expected) - fact - 15 points (practically 16 with GD) off top 7 - fact - 1 points off 10th - 17 goals at home this season - fact - a number of players unhappy - fact (I know it is) - 2 out of 3 targets set this season failed - fact (well according to Puel in his press conference) - cup final yes, winner no - fact (do you get anything for runners up? Nope) As you said, you can't argue the facts and this seasons facts show that we've gone backward, under Puel, compared to last two managers. Oh well, Was told (not by my usual contact, so I'm taking with a pinch of salt, but I have no reason to doubt and they are fairly credible) that Puel's gone (decisions been made pretty much... think it may have come from Kat believe it or not). Looking likely at this stage thatSsilva will get it, so I assume that he is the manager AR10 and Ericb mentioned the other day. Im still hopeful that we will hold off to see who else becomes available. Good post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 21 May, 2017 Author Share Posted 21 May, 2017 An incredibly simplistic way of looking at it to be honest. Agreed. That's the beauty of football it's simplicity. Each team plays each other home & away and the best team wins the league. The second best team is second etc etc. The complicated method would be to judge teams on artistic merit etc. Poch' team were the 8 th best in England . Puel's team were 8th best FACT. 99% of supporters would have taken that in Aug. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 21 May, 2017 Share Posted 21 May, 2017 Come on then, let's look at the facts... Poch - improved our league position from 14th to 8th - fact - 8 points off the top 7 - fact - 6 points off 10th Koeman - improved our league position from 8th to 7th then 6th - fact - 12 points ahead of 10th (14/15 season) - fact Puel - decreased league position from 6th to 8th (although decrease to be expected) - fact - 15 points (practically 16 with GD) off top 7 - fact - 1 points off 10th - 17 goals at home this season - fact - a number of players unhappy - fact (I know it is) - 2 out of 3 targets set this season failed - fact (well according to Puel in his press conference) - cup final yes, winner no - fact (do you get anything for runners up? Nope) As you said, you can't argue the facts and this seasons facts show that we've gone backward, under Puel, compared to last two managers. Oh well, Was told (not by my usual contact, so I'm taking with a pinch of salt, but I have no reason to doubt and they are fairly credible) that Puel's gone (decisions been made pretty much... think it may have come from Kat believe it or not). Looking likely at this stage thatSsilva will get it, so I assume that he is the manager AR10 and Ericb mentioned the other day. Im still hopeful that we will hold off to see who else becomes available. How would you have measured success for Puel? Improvement on 6th? He should have got a run in Europa, otherwise I can't see what more anyone could expect given the players available to him. Imagine if our last three months away form had been at home? People's views would be completely different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 21 May, 2017 Share Posted 21 May, 2017 How would you have measured success for Puel? Improvement on 6th? He should have got a run in Europa, otherwise I can't see what more anyone could expect given the players available to him. Imagine if our last three months away form had been at home? People's views would be completely different. So Les is only going to make a decision based on home results/performances? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKD Posted 21 May, 2017 Share Posted 21 May, 2017 How would you have measured success for Puel? Improvement on 6th? He should have got a run in Europa, otherwise I can't see what more anyone could expect given the players available to him. Imagine if our last three months away form had been at home? People's views would be completely different. The problem is it wasn't and that's why fans and senior club aren't happy. As for a measure of success, I'd say the targets set (get out of Europa group, latter stage of cup and European qualification) are / were fair targets set. 2/3 failed isn't a great return, especially with form and performances combined with fan and player unrest... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 21 May, 2017 Share Posted 21 May, 2017 How would you have measured success for Puel? Improvement on 6th? He should have got a run in Europa, otherwise I can't see what more anyone could expect given the players available to him. Imagine if our last three months away form had been at home? People's views would be completely different. OK Sour, let me ask you a question. Were you entertained by the football on offer? After all football is an entertainment business, and seeing as we have pretty much zero chance of winning the league, I don't think it too much to expect to be entertained for the several hundreds of pounds some pay for their season ticket. If you are content to spend hundreds of pounds on turgid entertainment, then so be it. So were you entertained - yes or no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 21 May, 2017 Author Share Posted 21 May, 2017 OK Sour, let me ask you a question. Were you entertained by the football on offer? After all football is an entertainment business, and seeing as we have pretty much zero chance of winning the league, I don't think it too much to expect to be entertained for the several hundreds of pounds some pay for their season ticket. If you are content to spend hundreds of pounds on turgid entertainment, then so be it. So were you entertained - yes or no? So you would rather we lost more games, but entertained you more? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 21 May, 2017 Share Posted 21 May, 2017 Probably Ducky, but playing more entertainingly also probably means winning more. Scoring goals would be a start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScepticalStan Posted 21 May, 2017 Share Posted 21 May, 2017 The way I look at it is this . Every team plays each other twice. The best team win the league, the second best team finish second etc etc . This year we were the 8 th best team in England. Same as we were under Poch Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk An incredibly simplistic way of looking at it to be honest. Mmmhm. Don't really need to add anything to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 21 May, 2017 Share Posted 21 May, 2017 The problem is it wasn't and that's why fans and senior club aren't happy. As for a measure of success, I'd say the targets set (get out of Europa group, latter stage of cup and European qualification) are / were fair targets set. 2/3 failed isn't a great return, especially with form and performances combined with fan and player unrest... Finishing 7/8th in the Premier League is failure for Saints? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 21 May, 2017 Share Posted 21 May, 2017 Finishing 7/8th in the Premier League is failure for Saints? You can agree with your Mrs to do a bit of procreation, slip it in, shoot your bolt after 5 seconds and get her pregnant. Successful but unrewarding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonjoe Posted 21 May, 2017 Share Posted 21 May, 2017 I'd like us to score a goal every 7.5 hours of football. Am I asking too much? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 21 May, 2017 Author Share Posted 21 May, 2017 Finish higher than 12th and get to the league cup final would be a great season. Greats a bit strong, good is more appropriate Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Albert Posted 21 May, 2017 Share Posted 21 May, 2017 Beyond all reasonable doubt, I can say that if I was offered 8th and a cup final for next season, I'd take it. That doesn't mean to say that I'm happy with home form and goals scored, and also the drop in total points accumulated compared with the previous year. It does not mean that I'm 100% happy. It's just that it's a results business and for a club of this size, 8th is very tidy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rooney Posted 22 May, 2017 Share Posted 22 May, 2017 If I had been away for a year and then came back I would have thought that Saints have done well this season bearing in mind final league position, loss of players pre-season, injuries to best players, San Siro, cup final and 2 new players into England Squad. However having seen the loss of goal scoring techniques has simply left an empty void in my mind. I came away from SMS yesterday feeling like I had been a guest at a neutral game that I really had no interest in. Probably because I knew there would be few goals and did not have the anger like when we lost to Rochdale at home a few years ago and they got the double over us. I am not sure I care whether the Manager stays or goes but I do feel that if we continue like we have, we shall be relegation fodder next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKD Posted 22 May, 2017 Share Posted 22 May, 2017 Finishing 7/8th in the Premier League is failure for Saints? You haven't read my post have you....? If the board set the target of EL qualification (which according to his pre stoke press conference they did) and 8th doesn't achieve this, then yes, that is a failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfahaji Posted 22 May, 2017 Share Posted 22 May, 2017 Isn't the main issue that regardless of how we have done this season, what does it hint at for next season? Finishing 8th is decent. The points tally isn't, but we're still ahead of several teams in the division. However, the way the season has finished, the difficulty in scoring goals and the lack of improvement in performance all year is surely reason to be concerned that we are not exactly springboarding into the summer and next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Albert Posted 22 May, 2017 Share Posted 22 May, 2017 You haven't read my post have you....? If the board set the target of EL qualification (which according to his pre stoke press conference they did) and 8th doesn't achieve this, then yes, that is a failure. I think that the board will be alarmed at the drop in total points along with the poor home results and for those reasons I expect them to let Puel go this week. They've previously expressed pride in progression, but at some point we would inevitably hit the brick wall that is the top 6 teams in the country. Selling the team's best players to those clubs above us that we were supposedly hoping to join at one point, is inconsistent with that goal. I remember both Cortese and Krueger talking about champion's league, and I have simply never believed that it is a consistently obtainable goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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