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Ian Paisley

Antrimsaint

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Antrimsaint

Antrimsaint

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On 12/06/2021 at 12:50, Manuel said:

Ian Paisley was a nasty man. 

The politics and the man are two entirely different things. My family knows his and a better constituency mp for North Ballymena catholic’s you could not find.

Irish politics is far more nuanced than your books would have you believe.

Before you come back with his politics, I never agreed with his nationalism one bit but if Martin Maginnes could eventually come to call him one of his best friends I think there is room for less black and white statements.

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Manuel

Manuel

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1 hour ago, Antrimsaint said:

The politics and the man are two entirely different things. My family knows his and a better constituency mp for North Ballymena catholic’s you could not find.

Irish politics is far more nuanced than your books would have you believe.

Before you come back with his politics, I never agreed with his nationalism one bit but if Martin Maginnes could eventually come to call him one of his best friends I think there is room for less black and white statements.

From what I've read and seen, it was his rabble rousing which inflamed tensions and encouraged separatism.  A bother to even the Unionists for not being hard enough.  A real catalyst.  

Fair enough if your family had a different view of him, they have first hand experience after all.  I also agree that it's easy to take a polarized view.  

This speech at the beginning of this clip was an interesting one for me.  Denouncing the very Catholic religion itself, rubbishing it...

 https://youtu.be/0zlwLyZwnBg

 

 

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Antrimsaint

Antrimsaint

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7 minutes ago, Manuel said:

From what I've read and seen, it was his rabble rousing which inflamed tensions and encouraged separatism.  A bother to even the Unionists for not being hard enough.  A real catalyst.  

Fair enough if your family had a different view of him, they have first hand experience after all.  I also agree that it's easy to take a polarized view.  

This speech at the beginning of this clip was an interesting one for me.  Denouncing the very Catholic religion itself, rubbishing it...

 https://youtu.be/0zlwLyZwnBg

 

 

I find it hard to defend some of his more virulent views yes and I’m usually anti religion but there are a few books on the catholic religion I could give you and names of people who have been directly impacted by the Catholic Church in Ireland. They are not well regarded anywhere in Ireland and the sooner we are shot of the catholic religion in Ireland the better. 

His hatred of Catholicism was ecumenical in nature, it’s idolitry and patriarchy. He knew what was going on in the Christian brothers schools and the mother and baby homes and talked about it much earlier than when it was finally exposed. 

Catholics would come to his door for religious instruction and employment help, educational needs, all sorts. He was not sectarian in these matters. He was anti republican, not anti catholic. Judge a man by what he does not by what he says.

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Manuel

Manuel

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Posted (edited)

I'm not sure we'll agree about Paisley, although I'm happy to do more reading on him...

I doubt Ireland will ever be shot of Catholicism.  It does seemed to have had a dip in Catholic membership though, or at least those "identifying" as such in the census, which can be misleading itself (how many of those identifying actually go to church or believe?)  For certain, the Church needs to take responsibility for its past wrongdoings there, rather than attempting to cover them up (as Ratzinger tried to).  I am atheist.  My reading on the subject is more from a historical interest that anything else.  

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Antrimsaint

Antrimsaint

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1 hour ago, Manuel said:

I'm not sure we'll agree about Paisley, although I'm happy to do more reading on him...

I doubt Ireland will ever be shot of Catholicism.  It does seemed to have had a dip in Catholic membership though, or at least those "identifying" as such in the census, which can be misleading itself (how many of those identifying actually go to church or believe?)  For certain, the Church needs to take responsibility for its past wrongdoings there, rather than attempting to cover them up (as Ratzinger tried to).  I am atheist.  My reading on the subject is more from a historical interest that anything else.  

Nice to have a reasonable discussion for once. I have my own views on subjects and Im sure I do not understand the full picture most of the time but I realise most people are complex and a shade of colours than black and white. I try to understand more myself and I could have said at one point magennis was “a nasty piece of work”

 I wholeheartedly agree to disagree and hope you further your knowledge as will I.

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Antrimsaint

Antrimsaint

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22 minutes ago, whelk said:

This thread was for light hearted shit that annoys not racism and sectarianism. Hopefully not controversial and no arguments, unless some cunt wants to argue a staycation is a holiday in Cornwall.

And it stayed that way. See what reasonable people can say to each other. 

Edited by Antrimsaint
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Jeremy

Jeremy

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Antrim, just seen this thread after it appears to have been edited by the moderators. I was brought up pure Catholic in New Zealand. During the "Troubles" we generally identifed with the Catholics of course but I could never accept the insane and criminal IRA bombs murdering innocent people all over the place  (especially children).  I had a fight with my mad brother a long time ago when he came home from the pub and told us he had donated to the IRA. 

This is a digression on this thread - I'm not suggesting for a moment that you or anybody else supported that shite.

Edited by Jeremy
"murdering"
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Antrimsaint

Antrimsaint

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3 hours ago, Jeremy said:

Antrim, just seen this thread after it appears to have been edited by the moderators. I was brought up pure Catholic in New Zealand. During the "Troubles" we generally identifed with the Catholics of course but I could never accept the insane and criminal IRA bombs killing innocent people all over the place  (especially children).  I had a fight with my mad brother a long time ago when he came home from the pub and told us he had donated to the IRA. 

This is a digression on this thread - I'm not suggesting for a moment that you or anybody else supported that shite.

Christ no, one of the reasons I moved to Southampton in 92, to get away from all that crap. Most of that rubbish had been confined to the past thank God but unfortunately it is creeping back because the nutters are using Brexit to foster division again. It’s why we voted remain. We knew what was going to happen. The mainland didn’t know/care and it may sound dramatic but the gunmen never went away and their romantic supporters, like your brother, never understood what they were supporting , on both sides.

 I am sorry to say the situation is going to get bad and you will start to see news reports in the coming six weeks of riots and protests. It is why I call out the gammons as the selfish people that they are because whilst they get their little blue passports my country will implode again and it devastates many of us as they just don’t care.

Best of luck to you and keep supporting Saints.

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Tamesaint

Tamesaint

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27 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

The sooner Ireland is United and Dublin takes charge of the north the better. If the Brexit vote speeds this up, then that’ll be another benefit of that wonderful moment. 

History, culture and the current crop of politicians mean that, unfortunately,  this is unlikely to happen peacefully.

 

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Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

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52 minutes ago, Tamesaint said:

History, culture and the current crop of politicians mean that, unfortunately,  this is unlikely to happen peacefully.

 

Maybe if the sweaties up and leave we could have a peacefulish settlement. If the Union was broken up would moderate unionists die in a ditch for a union with England & Wales? The Republic isn’t as church dominated anymore, living in a United Ireland within the EU may have more appeal if the Sweaties have gone. 

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whelk

whelk

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3 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

The sooner Ireland is United and Dublin takes charge of the north the better. If the Brexit vote speeds this up, then that’ll be another benefit of that wonderful moment. 

Laughable ignorance

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Antrimsaint

Antrimsaint

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8 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

The sooner Ireland is United and Dublin takes charge of the north the better. If the Brexit vote speeds this up, then that’ll be another benefit of that wonderful moment. 

“Brexit Oportunities Unit. Lololollolololololol. hahahahahahahahahahah.

Flat Earth Society, pink unicorns lolololololol. Fkin beautiful. Lololololollllol

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Antrimsaint

Antrimsaint

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6 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Maybe if the sweaties up and leave we could have a peacefulish settlement. If the Union was broken up would moderate unionists die in a ditch for a union with England & Wales? The Republic isn’t as church dominated anymore, living in a United Ireland within the EU may have more appeal if the Sweaties have gone. 

I love this noddy. Keep em comin lolololol

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Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

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8 minutes ago, Antrimsaint said:

I love this noddy. Keep em comin lolololol

Hilarious isn’t it, thinking Ireland should be reunited. I used to drink in a bar called Ireland’s 32 during my spell in the States. The Irish patrons would enjoy your lols in that fine establishment, (and I don’t mean the plastic paddy yanks).  

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Antrimsaint

Antrimsaint

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1 minute ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Hilarious isn’t it, thinking Ireland should be reunited. I used to drink in a bar called Ireland’s 32 during my spell in the States. The Irish patrons would enjoy your lols in that fine establishment, (and I don’t mean the plastic paddy yanks).  

No the nuanced arguments of a united Ireland should be left to those who understand it not little Englanders who like to throw little grenades (pun intended).

stick to your own lane and wanking yourself over brexit and leave grown up politics to the adults.

” Sooner Dublin takes over the running of  the  North” 

Really are a simpleton aren’t you? lol 😂 

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Antrimsaint

Antrimsaint

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28 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

They were from the South & they didn’t mind being called Paddys. They also had open minds, so unlike you, were prepared to discuss partition with an Englishman. 

I do find it offensive and racist so someone so open minded like you wouldn’t mind apologising as you wouldn’t want to offend anyone would you? Shall we do that and consider the matter closed. If you do that you can carry on in your little confused world where Irishmen don’t mind being patronised by less intelligent Englishmen.

Is this a character you play? I am bewildered that you may have a mortgage, are able to maintain employment and uphold loving relationships.

 I hope someone loves you.

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Antrimsaint

Antrimsaint

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9 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Cry me a river 

I could also be racist to you but I choose not to because I know that I am better than you. 
 

you could also block me but then you’d know that I know that I had beaten you.

How does it feel to be patronised by someone so obviously more intelligent, better looking and popular than you and know that God didn’t feel he could bless you to be Irish?

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