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egg

egg

Posted
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Posted
2 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Is one of those requirements to remove the proscribed organisation from Government?

Surely The governance of a state is different to recognising the state itself?

It makes no sense to have an official policy of supporting a 2 state solution, but only recognise 1 state. That's a contradiction. 

It's possible to address both issues: we recognise the Palestinians right to statehood, and recognise the West Bank (without settlements)/East Jerusalem/Gaza as the Palestinian state, but do not agree with it's right to self governance in Gaza whilst there is an armed and ruling Hamas presence. 

It's academic though as the US will never get on board, and Israeli will continue to tell the world in one breath that they're fighting Hamas, but in the next breath say that they can't live next door to Palestinians and do all they can to force all of them out of a decimated land. 

  • Like 5
Gloucester Saint

Gloucester Saint

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, egg said:

Surely The governance of a state is different to recognising the state itself?

It makes no sense to have an official policy of supporting a 2 state solution, but only recognise 1 state. That's a contradiction. 

It's possible to address both issues: we recognise the Palestinians right to statehood, and recognise the West Bank (without settlements)/East Jerusalem/Gaza as the Palestinian state, but do not agree with it's right to self governance in Gaza whilst there is an armed and ruling Hamas presence. 

It's academic though as the US will never get on board, and Israeli will continue to tell the world in one breath that they're fighting Hamas, but in the next breath say that they can't live next door to Palestinians and do all they can to force all of them out of a decimated land. 

Quite, and the headlines in the Telegraph and Mail today are pathetic. I’d have more respect, albeit strongly disagree, for their editors if they just said what they really want which is ethnic cleansing in Gaza. Those two are well out of lockstep with the British public.

Arab nations are putting a lot of pressure on the Palestinians to ditch Hamas and Iran if they want rebuilding help and the Palestinians badly need to start making some better choices. 

Edited by Gloucester Saint
Arab, not Aran
  • Like 3
egg

egg

Posted
  • Author
Posted
1 minute ago, badgerx16 said:

Trump is a cunt. 

 

That is all.

First part, absolutely. 

Second part, no. That is not all. 

  • Like 2
benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted

Apparently Trump is fuming that he keeps getting referred to as being in the Epstein Files.

He feels this is unfair.

He thinks, as President, he deserves top billing and it should be more of a case of Epstein being named in the Trump Files.

  • Haha 2
egg

egg

Posted
  • Author
Posted
14 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

When's that happening? 

That's the condition of the Canada and UK position mate. Keep up. 

hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, egg said:

That's the condition of the Canada and UK position mate. Keep up. 

Have a quote that Hamas "being taken out of the equation" is a requirement of recognition of a Palestinian state? 

egg

egg

Posted
  • Author
Posted
1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

Have a quote that Hamas "being taken out of the equation" is a requirement of recognition of a Palestinian state? 

I think you're just being obtuse. 

Canada and the UK have put clear conditions on recognising a Palestinian state. They both provide for no Hamas involvement in running Gaza. 

  • Like 1
hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, egg said:

I think you're just being obtuse. 

Canada and the UK have put clear conditions on recognising a Palestinian state. They both provide for no Hamas involvement in running Gaza. 

No Hamas involvement in running Gaza isn't removing Hamas from the equation. 

  • Confused 2
badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted

"Arab nations have taken the unprecedented step of telling Hamas to lay down its arms and surrender control of Gaza.

Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Egypt called for the terrorist group to “disarm” and disband. It is the first time these countries have condemned Hamas and demanded it play no part in the future of Palestine. "

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/palestine-israel-gaza-hamas-qatar-egypt-saudi-arabia-b2799343.html

  • Like 3
sadoldgit

sadoldgit

Posted
Posted

147 of the 193 member nations of the UN recognise Palestine as a state. If that is in breach of international law and awful lot of lawyers have either given dodgy advice, or the nations have just decided to ignore the law.

It seems that most people, other than the Israelis, think that the best solution for all parties involved is the two state solution. Little wonder that Israel are kicking up such a stink given that they don’t want a two state solution and are actively trying to remove the Palestinians from their own land.

egg

egg

Posted
  • Author
Posted
1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

No Hamas involvement in running Gaza isn't removing Hamas from the equation. 

What do you want instead? Every Hamas member killed with whatever collateral damage that entails? Hamam disarmed and not in power is the most that's realistically possible. 

Anyways, what's your stance on recognising a Palestinian state? 

hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, egg said:

What do you want instead? Every Hamas member killed with whatever collateral damage that entails? Hamam disarmed and not in power is the most that's realistically possible. 

Anyways, what's your stance on recognising a Palestinian state? 

It's not about what I want. Your claim was that "if Hamas are taken out of the equation" then there can be no reasonable objection to recognising a Palestinian state. My point was that simply stating that Hamas should not be involved in a new government of Palestine is not taking Hamas out of the equation. Clearly Israel are taking steps to attempt to prevent ongoing threats to their safety in the future as much as they possibly can. I'd be supportive of a Palestinian state in principle if Israel manage to achieve that to some degree. 

rallyboy

rallyboy

Posted
Posted
27 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Clearly Israel are taking steps to attempt to prevent ongoing threats to their safety in the future as much as they possibly can. 

Do you think they've had some mission creep on that worthy aim and gone a little bit too war-crimey?

  • Like 1
hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, rallyboy said:

Do you think they've had some mission creep on that worthy aim and gone a little bit too war-crimey?

I expect there's been some war crimes committed as there is in every war ever. I support full investigations into those and consequences for those involved in them. 

egg

egg

Posted
  • Author
Posted
1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

It's not about what I want. Your claim was that "if Hamas are taken out of the equation" then there can be no reasonable objection to recognising a Palestinian state. My point was that simply stating that Hamas should not be involved in a new government of Palestine is not taking Hamas out of the equation. Clearly Israel are taking steps to attempt to prevent ongoing threats to their safety in the future as much as they possibly can. I'd be supportive of a Palestinian state in principle if Israel manage to achieve that to some degree. 

What needs to happen to give Israel safety? Kill thousands more civilians under the guise of taking out a few Hamas blokes? If something else, what would that be? 

hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, egg said:

What needs to happen to give Israel safety? Kill thousands more civilians under the guise of taking out a few Hamas blokes? If something else, what would that be? 

I will just repeat what I've posted on here many times before but completely ending all Hamas infrastructure and creating some sort of buffer zone between Palestinians and Israel is how it will most likely end up. It will make it much more difficult for Israel to be attacked as easily in the future. Probably ongoing administration of Palestine to prevent Hamas being armed by the likes of Iran too. 

sadoldgit

sadoldgit

Posted
Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, benjii said:

Of course, there are historical examples of recognising a state off the back of murderous actions of terrorist groups....

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

 

There are plenty of others including the IRA (Thatcher was in talks with them despite saying she didn’t talk to terrorusts) and Mandela and the ANC. But yes, the Israelis deliberately killed British people when pursuing their aims, but they seem to get a free pass by some.

Evidence that the IDF deliberately target children.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/videos/cjelp738zd7o

If Hamas are not seen to be fit to be included in peace talks, why is Netanyahu’s regime ok when they are clearly committing war crimes too and have done consistently since 7th October 2023?

https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/israel-gaza-war-children-british-doctor-video-b2792054.html

I saw the interview with a doctor last night explaining how they would present at hospital on particular days with gunshot wounds in particular places (including the testicles). Anyone arguing that Netanyahu’s methods are less monstrous than those of Hamas should seek some help.

 

Edited by sadoldgit
Added text
benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted
On 04/08/2025 at 00:02, Holmes_and_Watson said:

Oh, Jordan the country is the custodian of the site. I thought Katie Price had been drafted in to solve issues in the Middle East. 

She does let a Sheikh pay to take a dump on her.

  • Haha 1
sadoldgit

sadoldgit

Posted
Posted
15 hours ago, Wiggles31 said:

Watching the news makes my absolute blood boil. What in the actual fuck are Israel doing?! State of the world is appalling. 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-security-trump-gaza-hostages-hamas-b2801679.html
 

We have been told on this thread that any criticism of Netanyahu, his government, the IDF, or any Israeli in general is anti-Semitic. What does that make the Israeli gentlemen who signed the letter above to Trump?

Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

We have been told on this thread that any criticism of Netanyahu, his government, the IDF, or any Israeli in general is anti-Semitic.


Plenty of people have criticised all 4 and not been called anti semitic. You, however, have been called anti semitic because you posted anti-Semitic remarks. 

  • Like 2
badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

We have been told........that any criticism of Netanyahu, his government, the IDF, or any Israeli in general is anti-Semitic. 

Only by Netanyahu and his enablers.

Holmes_and_Watson

Holmes_and_Watson

Posted
Posted
50 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-security-trump-gaza-hostages-hamas-b2801679.html
 

We have been told on this thread that any criticism of Netanyahu, his government, the IDF, or any Israeli in general is anti-Semitic. What does that make the Israeli gentlemen who signed the letter above to Trump?

Nonsense.

You have been told this on many occasions.

I conclude that you are an idiot.

  • Like 3
sadoldgit

sadoldgit

Posted
Posted
19 hours ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

Nonsense.

You have been told this on many occasions.

I conclude that you are an idiot.

Tell me, are you ok with the way that the Israelis are treating the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank?

Are you ok with the way that Netanyahu and his government try and shut down any form of criticism as anti-Semitism?

Are you ok with the way that Israel constantly ignores International law?

Are you ok with aid being deliberately withheld from the people trapped in Gaza and the deliberate targeting of people seeking what little aid there is?

Are you ok with the idea that one nation/religion is above criticism and that any attempt at criticism makes the person being critical out to be a Pyrrha ?

If you answer yes to any of the above I conclude that you are something more than an idiot.
 

 

20 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Only by Netanyahu and his enablers.

There is one particular poster who does the same job on here that Netanyahu and his government does when it comes to handling criticism of their actions. When it is pointed out to them that exactly the same points are being raised by other Israelis/Jewish people they don’t seem to be able to handle that and go back to attacking the non Israeli/Jewish people for making exactly the same points.

 

  • Haha 5
Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, The Kraken said:

Bless. He’s doing his thing yet again where if he says the same made up line over and over again it becomes true in his head.

His new login on TUI seems to have got off to a good start. Here are a couple of the responses to one of the firsts threads he started, about you guessed it, The Far Right 😂

You dont speak for me mate .
You talk utter leftie shite . Jelly is absolutely spot on . If anyone disagrees with your
Leftie views you get all upset . Some of us think for ourselves and are not swayed by Leftie idealistic shite .

 

and

You really are a sanctimonious prick.

 

Edited by Turkish
  • Like 2
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egg

egg

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Today's Israel/Gaza update is grim 

At least 135 Palestinians, including 87 aid seekers, have been killed and 771 injured in Israeli attacks across Gaza in the past 24 hours, according to the enclave’s Health Ministry.

The number of people who starved to death in the enclave during Israel’s war has risen to 193, with the five new confirmed hunger-related deaths coming in the past 24 hours, the ministry says.

UN Assistant Secretary-General Miroslav Jenca told the UN Security Council that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s reported push to occupy Gaza fully is “deeply alarming”. European Commission Vice President Teresa Ribera also described the plan as an “unacceptable provocation”.

Holmes_and_Watson

Holmes_and_Watson

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

Tell me, are you ok with the way that the Israelis are treating the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank?

Are you ok with the way that Netanyahu and his government try and shut down any form of criticism as anti-Semitism?

Are you ok with the way that Israel constantly ignores International law?

Are you ok with aid being deliberately withheld from the people trapped in Gaza and the deliberate targeting of people seeking what little aid there is?

Are you ok with the idea that one nation/religion is above criticism and that any attempt at criticism makes the person being critical out to be a Pyrrha ?

If you answer yes to any of the above I conclude that you are something more than an idiot.
 

 

There is one particular poster who does the same job on here that Netanyahu and his government does when it comes to handling criticism of their actions. When it is pointed out to them that exactly the same points are being raised by other Israelis/Jewish people they don’t seem to be able to handle that and go back to attacking the non Israeli/Jewish people for making exactly the same points.

 

Gosh! Am I off your huff list?

None of your questions is at all relevant to your post.

"We have been told on this thread that any criticism of Netanyahu, his government, the IDF, or any Israeli in general is anti-Semitic. What does that make the Israeli gentlemen who signed the letter above to Trump?"

The above is untrue. As has been explained to you on numerous occasions. A quick look at the posts will show plenty of criticism of various actions. The look will also show posters telling you that variations of your above post don't reflect their experience on the board.

Repeating the same claim, and trying to deflect into whataboutery doesn't work. But no doubt we'll be having to explain this to you yet again shortly.

Holmes_and_Watson

Holmes_and_Watson

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Turkish said:

His new login on TUI seems to have got off to a good start. Here are a couple of the responses to one of the firsts threads he started, about you guessed it, The Far Right 😂

You dont speak for me mate .
You talk utter leftie shite . Jelly is absolutely spot on . If anyone disagrees with your
Leftie views you get all upset . Some of us think for ourselves and are not swayed by Leftie idealistic shite .

 

and

You really are a sanctimonious prick.

 

When the rest of the world has the same perception of you...it's the rest of the world's fault. 

- Welcome to SOGLand

 

Edited by Holmes_and_Watson
Farmer Saint

Farmer Saint

Posted
Posted
On 05/08/2025 at 14:11, sadoldgit said:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-security-trump-gaza-hostages-hamas-b2801679.html
 

We have been told on this thread that any criticism of Netanyahu, his government, the IDF, or any Israeli in general is anti-Semitic. What does that make the Israeli gentlemen who signed the letter above to Trump?

We haven't been told that at all. In fact I have criticised all of them and not been called anti-Semitic.

  • Like 4
whelk

whelk

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Farmer Saint said:

We haven't been told that at all. In fact I have criticised all of them and not been called anti-Semitic.

You need to understand SOG needs camps. He needs to put people in some group and he can’t grasp, or cope, with being labelled antisemitic alone and wants to bring other critics of Netanyahu with him. Probably not questioned why Farmer Saint hasn’t been called antisemitic and he has. Bound to be something to do with Katie Hopkins though 

Sheaf Saint

Sheaf Saint

Posted
Posted
42 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

We haven't been told that at all. In fact I have criticised all of them and not been called anti-Semitic.

Indeed. It's actually quite easy to do.

What Soggy has been told is that his ignorance in conflating Israelis/the Netenyahu government with Jewish folk in general, however unintentional, can be and is considered antisemitic. Sadly though, attempts to explain that to him appear to have fallen on deaf ears.

sadoldgit

sadoldgit

Posted
Posted
52 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

We haven't been told that at all. In fact I have criticised all of them and not been called anti-Semitic.

Where have I criticised “all of them”?

As I said months ago, we talk about Russia invading Ukraine but it doesn’t imply that all Russians are evil bastards. I have made a point for months now in making it clear that it is those in Israel who are either responsible or supportive of the genocidal acts against the Palestinian people. I have absolutely no issue with Israelis/Jewish people who are against Netanyahu, his extremist government and the IDF just as I have no issue with any Russian who is against Putin, those who are supportive of the bastion and the Russian army who are carrying out the invasion.

I took flak on here immediately for daring to say that there were no guys in white hats in this conflict and that Hamas and the Israeli government were both at fault for the conflict. This caused some of the usual suspects to cry antisemitism. I posted about the Israeli police report about the IDF killing Israelis along with Hamas fighters and was called antisemitic despite the news being reported by the Israelis. I gave evidence that the IDF had operational instructions to shoot and kill any Israeli hostages held by Hamas or other terror organisations along with the combatants. This was evident on 7th October as reported by the Israeli police. By posting it I was called antisemitic.

Perhaps the usual suspects chose to target me because I call them out for other issues? Who knows? There are plenty of high profile Israelis or Jewish people who say exactly the same as I post on here, but they completely ignore that and carrying a playing the poster.

Maybe if you also posted about and against far right agitators and far right politics you would eventually get the same treatment?  

I have been posting on here for nearly twenty years and posted on this site’s predecessor for many years before that. I appreciate that you are a relative newby and don’t have the history that I and the usual suspects have.

I can tell you that I have long been a target for the anti-woke, Islamophobia, misogynist, homophobic, racist, xenophobic, anti-trans, anti- socialist crowd. 

Thankfully there are a lot more people posting in the same vein now, but go back a few years and you will find plenty of pile ons from

the usual suspects whenever I posted against far right attitudes or in support of the oppressed.

I have said this many times and will say it again. I am against any form of extremism. That includes extremism groups of Muslims, Jews, Israelis, Palestinians, Russians, Christians, White Supremists, English, Irish, Scots…get the picture?

It is very clear that the label of anti-semitism is used to try and shut up or denigrate critics of the current Israeli government and their enablers and supporters. Go back and read old posts and you will find the same here. Go back and read the links that I have posted from Israelis and non Israeli Jews. If I am anti-Semitic then so are they.

 

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  • Confused 1
Farmer Saint

Farmer Saint

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Where have I criticised “all of them”?

As I said months ago, we talk about Russia invading Ukraine but it doesn’t imply that all Russians are evil bastards. I have made a point for months now in making it clear that it is those in Israel who are either responsible or supportive of the genocidal acts against the Palestinian people. I have absolutely no issue with Israelis/Jewish people who are against Netanyahu, his extremist government and the IDF just as I have no issue with any Russian who is against Putin, those who are supportive of the bastion and the Russian army who are carrying out the invasion.

I took flak on here immediately for daring to say that there were no guys in white hats in this conflict and that Hamas and the Israeli government were both at fault for the conflict. This caused some of the usual suspects to cry antisemitism. I posted about the Israeli police report about the IDF killing Israelis along with Hamas fighters and was called antisemitic despite the news being reported by the Israelis. I gave evidence that the IDF had operational instructions to shoot and kill any Israeli hostages held by Hamas or other terror organisations along with the combatants. This was evident on 7th October as reported by the Israeli police. By posting it I was called antisemitic.

Perhaps the usual suspects chose to target me because I call them out for other issues? Who knows? There are plenty of high profile Israelis or Jewish people who say exactly the same as I post on here, but they completely ignore that and carrying a playing the poster.

Maybe if you also posted about and against far right agitators and far right politics you would eventually get the same treatment?  

I have been posting on here for nearly twenty years and posted on this site’s predecessor for many years before that. I appreciate that you are a relative newby and don’t have the history that I and the usual suspects have.

I can tell you that I have long been a target for the anti-woke, Islamophobia, misogynist, homophobic, racist, xenophobic, anti-trans, anti- socialist crowd. 

Thankfully there are a lot more people posting in the same vein now, but go back a few years and you will find plenty of pile ons from

the usual suspects whenever I posted against far right attitudes or in support of the oppressed.

I have said this many times and will say it again. I am against any form of extremism. That includes extremism groups of Muslims, Jews, Israelis, Palestinians, Russians, Christians, White Supremists, English, Irish, Scots…get the picture?

It is very clear that the label of anti-semitism is used to try and shut up or denigrate critics of the current Israeli government and their enablers and supporters. Go back and read old posts and you will find the same here. Go back and read the links that I have posted from Israelis and non Israeli Jews. If I am anti-Semitic then so are they.

 

I think you're misunderstanding my reply. My point was I have continuously criticised Netanyahu, the Israeli military, the Israeli Government for their conduct, on this thread, and never have I been accused of anti-Semitic behaviour or language.

I also consistently call out far right actors and posters on this site. I don't think you have read them, but I'm as left as they come. I also think the Israeli military and Government are complicit in committing war crimes and they should die in a cell in the Hague.

I'm not sure why you think I'm sympathetic to the far right and haven't criticised them?

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