Doncaster Rovers

[bungle]

Saw a little comment in the Observer on Sunday, praising Doncaster for sticking with their manager and their 'footballing principles' when they were doing badly, and they are now being forward for playing football the right way.

 

As I now watch a Saints team which before could play some quality football struggle to play a 5 yards square pass, I have to wonder what reverting back to "a proper championship style" (as many on here would call it) has got us?

[Scummer]

You think Poortvliet should have stayed?

 

Our problems are nothing to do with the style of play. You can have success playing decent football, you can have success playing hoofball, you're unlikely to have success if you appoint managers who haven't got a clue.

[Chez]

since reverting to a hoof it down the channels style we have been embaressing. Much preferred watching us lose playing an all out passing game than the current load of ****. All we needed to do IMO was mix it up a little bit with a long ball now and then. Unfortunately we have gone from one extreme to another.

 

HAving said all that I am not sure the style matters as too many of the players simply are not good enough.

[View From The Top]

Saw a little comment in the Observer on Sunday, praising Doncaster for sticking with their manager and their 'footballing principles' when they were doing badly, and they are now being forward for playing football the right way.

 

As I now watch a Saints team which before could play some quality football struggle to play a 5 yards square pass, I have to wonder what reverting back to "a proper championship style" (as many on here would call it) has got us?

 

Should have kept Jan. He was doing a great job.

[bungle]

since reverting to a hoof it down the channels style we have been embaressing. Much preferred watching us lose playing an all out passing game than the current load of ****. All we needed to do IMO was mix it up a little bit with a long ball now and then. Unfortunately we have gone from one extreme to another.

 

HAving said all that I am not sure the style matters as too many of the players simply are not good enough.

 

We are still the only team to have beaten Reading at the Madejski. To me that shows they are good enough, but they have not been able to develop the consistancy. Also, the one thing I didn't like about JP was his constant tinkering with the line up.

[Nadia Sllim]

We are playing "panic football" we just do not have a plan anymore, is the whole club playing the same style still??? JP football was pretty but not damaging to other teams, to us it was, now I think we are just resigned to getting through our games.

[Katalinic]

We are still the only team to have beaten Reading at the Madejski. To me that shows they are good enough, but they have not been able to develop the consistancy. Also, the one thing I didn't like about JP was his constant tinkering with the line up.

 

To me it shows it was a freak result. Shame you don't get 50 points for winning at the Madejski. However you try to dress it up, this season has been a disaster.

[Sheff Saint]

If JPs style was working, and he bowed to fan pressure to change to 'proper CCC style' than that show's JP was a weak manager.

 

Sadly, i think JP was not only weak, but also not tactically good enough. He tinkered too much and we played far too narrow. He (or Lowe) has also wasted what resources we did have. I don't think O'Driscoll has done that.

 

And we do have to factor in the expectation levels. For Donny, there was always going to be more patience. They've rocketed in recent seasons and exceeding most fans expectations.

 

Even though many of us don't believe we deserve to be any higher than we currently are, we all feel we should be, despite the current playing staff. This, by contrast, is our lowest position in many many years so of course the tolerance levels of supporters is going to be lower. These are factors which can't be underesimated in shaping a season. Thats not the fans fault, it's just how it is.

[JohnnyFartPants]

The most ironic thing in all this, I feel, is that we tried to play a passing game of pretty football with mainly kids that were not all good enough to be there. Now we get some seasoned pro's back that should have the ability to change from game to game, using experience and we revert back to the old days. Why not tell them to do what has been done but show the lads how to do it?

[Sheff Saint]

The most ironic thing in all this, I feel, is that we tried to play a passing game of pretty football with mainly kids that were not all good enough to be there. Now we get some seasoned pro's back that should have the ability to change from game to game, using experience and we revert back to the old days. Why not tell them to do what has been done but show the lads how to do it?

 

Ahh. Common sense. One day the football club will get a dose of it!

[saintstr1]

The most ironic thing in all this, I feel, is that we tried to play a passing game of pretty football with mainly kids that were not all good enough to be there. Now we get some seasoned pro's back that should have the ability to change from game to game, using experience and we revert back to the old days. Why not tell them to do what has been done but show the lads how to do it?

 

Unfortunately I dont think the so called senior pro's are that good either , I am sorry to say that this is probably the least talented squad of players that I have seen playing for Saints in my 60 years of supporting them. Nothing short of a miracle will save them now and if they dont record the full 6 points from the next two home fixtures ,.........well need I say more.

[bungle]

Unfortunately I dont think the so called senior pro's are that good either , I am sorry to say that this is probably the least talented squad of players that I have seen playing for Saints in my 60 years of supporting them. Nothing short of a miracle will save them now and if they dont record the full 6 points from the next two home fixtures ,.........well need I say more.

 

Actually again I believe the youngsters have a lot of talent, but consistency has been their main issue. Also a shame that we lost perhaps to two best (Holmes and Scheiderlin) for a large proportion of the season. How we develop that consistency I don't know, but clearly Doncaster have gone from being poor to being on a brilliant run by remaining confident in what they were doing and having the guts to stick with it.

[1965onwards]

You can't extrapolate how ONE club has done and then say that ALL clubs would have fared the same if they carreid out the same policy.

 

Pointless stupidity.

[CB Fry]

You can't extrapolate how ONE club has done and then say that ALL clubs would have fared the same if they carreid out the same policy.

 

Pointless stupidity.

 

 

 

Correct.

 

And Doncaster might have footballing principles, but they also have a decent amount of wedge behind them.

 

And they stick with O'Driscoll because he delivered promotion to the second tier for the first time in fifty years - ie the highest they've been in living memory, and he won them the JP Trophy, their first trophy in their entire history. I think that buys you a some grace from the sack.

 

That's not quite the same as sticking with Jan forever because he, well, err, won at Reading. :rolleyes:

 

As someone else said - Reading was a freak result - one win at home is a slightly better guide to the realities of our situation.

 

[bungle]

Correct.

 

And Doncaster might have footballing principles, but they also have a decent amount of wedge behind them.

 

And they stick with O'Driscoll because he delivered promotion to the second tier for the first time in fifty years - ie the highest they've been in living memory, and he won them the JP Trophy, their first trophy in their entire history. I think that buys you a some grace from the sack.

 

That's not quite the same as sticking with Jan forever because he, well, err, won at Reading. :rolleyes:

 

As someone else said - Reading was a freak result - one win at home is a slightly better guide to the realities of our situation.

 

 

There is a comment on another thread about Sunderland, in the season they went down from the Prem, hating playing at home because if they tried something and it didn't come off the crowd was immediately on their back. I think it is obvious to those who go home and away that the better football has been away from home and I have no doubt that part (please note the use of this word before you come back with some crappy response about just blaming the fans) of the problem was similar.

[CB Fry]

There is a comment on another thread about Sunderland, in the season they went down from the Prem, hating playing at home because if they tried something and it didn't come off the crowd was immediately on their back. I think it is obvious to those who go home and away that the better football has been away from home and I have no doubt that part (please note the use of this word before you come back with some crappy response about just blaming the fans) of the problem was similar.

 

 

Err - what's this got to do with Doncaster Rovers "sticking to their priciples" then?

 

This is just scattergun reasoning where you're just firing off any old thing.

 

I think you need to look at what you've posted on this thread and back it up - ie the Reading result being evidence that we are in reality some team of world beaters - rather than just opening up random unrelated new fronts of debate whenever challenged.

[bungle]

Err - what's this got to do with Doncaster Rovers "sticking to their priciples" then?

 

This is just scattergun reasoning where you're just firing off any old thing.

 

I think you need to look at what you've posted on this thread and back it up - ie the Reading result being evidence that we are in reality some team of world beaters - rather than just opening up random unrelated new fronts of debate whenever challenged.

 

Actually it is very relevant but I know that you will struggle to understand that.

 

Also, again you go to prove how silly you are by overly exaggerating points, as if I have ever said we had a team of 'world beaters' - still if you want to be an idiot go ahead. My point was that the Reading game(s in fact) showed me that this team has talent. In fact, there were plenty of games that make me believe that the team has talent. Again, as I have mentioned (but you have chosen not to read, because you would rather make a rash comment) the problem was consistantly displaying that talent.

 

The point was then brought up that our home form showed we did not have talent. I have pointed out that I believe our home form has suffered for some other reasons, and that those who see the team play on a regular basis will have seen the team play better away from home. Also, it was you (yes YOU) who brought up the whole issue of home form, so if it isn't relevant to the discussion that you are only having ago at yourself.

 

Still, you will claim that in answering the points YOU have raised I am going off on a tangent.

[Arizona]

If we'd stuck with Jan, I don't think we'd be any better off at all. Probably just playing the old formation instead. I think the problem has been that many of our players just aren't CCC standard and some of the ones which are aren't being used to their full potential. Jan picked various starting line-ups, but never the right one.

 

I think the Reading game was just a one off. Reading were very poor and we did play well. Both goals were scored by BWP, who has barely played since. As for Jan playing attractive football, I'm sorry I must have missed that. Granted I've only seen a handful of games, but other than Reading, I don't think we've played good football since we beat a (very poor) Derby side. Passing it around a lot and never putting a decent ball into the box isn't exciting IMO.

[CB Fry]

Actually it is very relevant but I know that you will struggle to understand that.

 

Also, again you go to prove how silly you are by overly exaggerating points, as if I have ever said we had a team of 'world beaters' - still if you want to be an idiot go ahead. My point was that the Reading game(s in fact) showed me that this team has talent. In fact, there were plenty of games that make me believe that the team has talent. Again, as I have mentioned (but you have chosen not to read, because you would rather make a rash comment) the problem was consistantly displaying that talent.

 

The point was then brought up that our home form showed we did not have talent. I have pointed out that I believe our home form has suffered for some other reasons, and that those who see the team play on a regular basis will have seen the team play better away from home. Also, it was you (yes YOU) who brought up the whole issue of home form, so if it isn't relevant to the discussion that you are only having ago at yourself.

 

Still, you will claim that in answering the points YOU have raised I am going off on a tangent.

 

 

I'm not going off on a tangent, I've brought it back to your first post on a thread you started which you are now trying to avoid.

 

You're praising Doncaster Rovers for "sticking to their principles".

 

Well, I'm saying it's a hell of a lot easier to stick to your principles if you are in the middle of the greatest period in your clubs history, recently won your first ever trophy and are in the highest division anyone can remember.

 

Oh what a wrench that must have been to stick with things. Remind me how many sack the board/manager marches have there been in Donny this season?

 

Not quite the same as sticking with Portaloo's failed tenure having won one game at home all season (which rather than face into you are weaving fan-based excuses for).

 

There's principles and there's going through the worst season in living memory and the worst season at home of all time.

 

So you starting a thread berating the club for not "sticking to their principles" at this time is just pig headed nonsense.

 

If our current plight isn't an argument for change god knows what is.

 

There you go - answering your points from your first post on this thread you started. No tangents.

 

You're just wrong.

Edited 18 February, 2009 by CB Fry
Portaloo didn't have a regime, he had a tenure.

[saint1977]

There's one big difference between Doncaster and us and it's the decisive one - John Ryan. A man prepared to invest sensibly - please take note Rupert, Mike, Guy, Patrick (Trant) and others - rather than just enjoy the kudos of being involved without contributing anything.

 

Ryan has a good manager in O'Driscoll - look at Bournemouth since he left - and has kept his better players - Mills, Stock and added good bargains for that level in the likes of Woods. What we should have been doing in the summer actually instead of all the b@llocks about "total football". Ryan is respected by the fans and has installed a sense of purpose and unity that has taken them from being a Conference club to near-CCC safety. We were a PL club at the time. Bet their wage bill is STILL smaller than ours.

 

Doncaster highlight the poor decisions made by us, Charlton and Norwich for me. All 3 look likely to drop and all 3 were in the PL a few years ago. We have even less excuse because these season was always gonig to be difficult and Lowe and Wilde took stupid, reckless risks. It makes them no better than Jim Hone.

[saint1977]

I'm not going off on a tangent, I've brought it back to your first post on a thread you started which you are now trying to avoid.

 

You're praising Doncaster Rovers for "sticking to their principles".

 

Well, I'm saying it's a hell of a lot easier to stick to your principles if you are in the middle of the greatest period in your clubs history, recently won your first ever trophy and are in the highest division anyone can remember.

 

Oh what a wrench that must have been to stick with things. Remind me how many sack the board/manager marches have there been in Donny this season?

 

Not quite the same as sticking with Portaloo's failed tenure having won one game at home all season (which rather than face into you are weaving fan-based excuses for).

 

There's principles and there's going through the worst season in living memory and the worst season at home of all time.

 

So you starting a thread berating the club for not "sticking to their principles" at this time is just pig headed nonsense.

 

If our current plight isn't an argument for change god knows what is.

 

There you go - answering your points from your first post on this thread you started. No tangents.

 

You're just wrong.

 

Totally correct CB, +1. Bungle, I like the stuff you post on the Lounge but seriously mate, this line of argument you are pushing defies logic, league tables and has more holes than, well, Dutch cheese...

[slickmick]

I blame the Doncaster Train, its jinxed I tell ya..

Send it back Rupes.

[um pahars]

I blame the Doncaster Train, its jinxed I tell ya..

Send it back Rupes.

 

I was just going to post that.

 

Maybe it's slowly releasing toxic fumes into the boardroom that is interfering with decision making ability of our Board.

 

Those pesky Tykes.

[bungle]

IWell, I'm saying it's a hell of a lot easier to stick to your principles if you are in the middle of the greatest period in your clubs history, recently won your first ever trophy and are in the highest division anyone can remember.

 

Oh what a wrench that must have been to stick with things. Remind me how many sack the board/manager marches have there been in Donny this season?

 

It certainly would be easier to stick to your principles at a 'settled' club. Certainly at SFC it would be easier to bring in some journeyman manager and play hoofball. Sadly, the easy decision is not always the right one. Having the guts to go out and keep playing football in the belief it is the right way to play, and the right thing to do would be brave. In the same way that the Observer have called Donny brave for deciding to stick to playing the way they do.

 

Let's face it, Forest have gone for the panic measure now as well (and that was a club who had just come up with a very popular manager), and they are still widely considered to be in the relegation mix, whereas Donny have pulled away.

 

Your points re: number of marchs only goes to enhance my point of negativity at home games.

[Chez]

We are still the only team to have beaten Reading at the Madejski. To me that shows they are good enough, but they have not been able to develop the consistancy. Also, the one thing I didn't like about JP was his constant tinkering with the line up.

 

a very good point indeed, but to counter that I'd have to say we played to our absolute maximum that day with Perry having the game of his life IMO and the likes of Lallana and McGoldrick linking up beautifully to run them ragged. Add to this BWP scored a header!!! and for him a very long range goal (over 10 yards - can anyone recall him ever scoring from outside the box? I've never seen such a woeful `long range' shooter in all my days). Reading on the other hand had a nightmare day giving the ball away so cheaply. I doubt they have played as bad as that again.

 

When we passed it and we were on our game we were brilliant earlier in the season. The second half against Wolves with ten man showed we have talent, but the long and short of it is we have players that are not up to it and when they are exposed or put under pressure we conceed goals.

 

The formation also helped and hindered us. It allowed us to flood the midfield and let Lallana loose in the middle where he needs to play, but it also exposed our very poor fullbacks as they had no cover at all. James learning his trade up against two players cost us goals.

 

Pretty much every senior pro we have was out there on Saturday, but playing hopeful balls down the channels with no speedy striker to get on the end of them is folly.If we use the same set of players but play a short passing game we might just have a chance against Preston.

Edited 18 February, 2009 by Chez

[AndyNorthernSaints]

I blame the return of Wotton into midfield for the crap football recently. Saying that he is highly rated by 95% posters on here who selected for their teams :-(

[Chez]

I blame the return of Wotton into midfield for the crap football recently. Saying that he is highly rated by 95% posters on here who selected for their teams :-(

 

He ranks with me about the same level as Powell in terms of footballing ability, both were whole hearted, slow and talentless. The key difference is that Wotton has avoided injury since he joined us.

 

To be fair he had a fairly decent game on Saturday, but he still booted it anywhere about 50% of the time and chased shadows all game. That is a vast improvement on his previous outing I might add, but he slides in for so many tackles because he is too slow to catch them. In the second half even he started to look to play it short rather than hit and hope. If he does more of that then maybe he can change my opinion of him - because in terms of comittment to the cause I don't think I've seen anyone give as much as he has done in the last few games. To be honest though at this level I'd expect that drive AND some quality on the ball.

[Blandford saint]

The point is that Sean O'Driscoll is a really excellent manager - he had to be to keep Bournemouth in Div 1 so long with minus money. Football is not just a case of long ball or passing football, it's obviously more complicated than that, but Sean has managed to keep their confidence up whilst waiting for results to turn. The fact that they were used to winning regularly last season probably helped.

[um pahars]

My point was that the Reading game(s in fact) showed me that this team has talent.

 

If you take one game in isolation, you could probably read anything you wanted into it.

 

Much more powerful is a sustained period of performances and results, and IMHO 28 games is certainly enough to give you a much better feel for what the team was capable of.

 

We were going nowhere fast, Poortvliet was looking increasingly more and more bemused as each game passed. He may have stuck with the same rigid formation, but he was continually tinkering with the line up.

 

Contrary to what Chris Iwelumo would tell you, we didn't play football the "right way" and just because Wotte hasn't managed to get us to play a "proper Championship style" so far, I don't think we should get all misty eyed and grab our rose tinted spectacles and wish for success under Poortvliet.

 

He had more than enough games (as well as a pre season) to make his mark and he failed, disastrously. We've had enough rewriting of history without trying to suggest that under Poortvliet we were on the cusp of something beuatiful and successful.

[bungle]

If you take one game in isolation, you could probably read anything you wanted into it.

 

Much more powerful is a sustained period of performances and results, and IMHO 28 games is certainly enough to give you a much better feel for what the team was capable of.

 

We were going nowhere fast, Poortvliet was looking increasingly more and more bemused as each game passed. He may have stuck with the same rigid formation, but he was continually tinkering with the line up.

 

Contrary to what Chris Iwelumo would tell you, we didn't play football the "right way" and just because Wotte hasn't managed to get us to play a "proper Championship style" so far, I don't think we should get all misty eyed and grab our rose tinted spectacles and wish for success under Poortvliet.

 

He had more than enough games (as well as a pre season) to make his mark and he failed, disastrously. We've had enough rewriting of history without trying to suggest that under Poortvliet we were on the cusp of something beuatiful and successful.

 

Well, I'm glad that you are also among people who think that your opinion is fact. Well done.

 

The talent level can be judged on a smaller number of games. As I have said more than once on this thread (had you bothered to read it), is that we have struggled to consistantly show our talent. I point black will not accept that the young players have no ability, but I will accept that ability alone isn't enough, and that they needed to consistantly apply themselves.

 

I certainly felt more positive about the team with JP in charge than I do with Wotte.

[Whitey Grandad]

I certainly felt more positive about the team with JP in charge than I do with Wotte.

I wasn't as negative with JP as Wotte. I suppose you could call that 'more positive'

[CB Fry]

It certainly would be easier to stick to your principles at a 'settled' club. Certainly at SFC it would be easier to bring in some journeyman manager and play hoofball. Sadly, the easy decision is not always the right one. Having the guts to go out and keep playing football in the belief it is the right way to play, and the right thing to do would be brave. In the same way that the Observer have called Donny brave for deciding to stick to playing the way they do.

 

Let's face it, Forest have gone for the panic measure now as well (and that was a club who had just come up with a very popular manager), and they are still widely considered to be in the relegation mix, whereas Donny have pulled away.

 

Your points re: number of marchs only goes to enhance my point of negativity at home games.

 

Colin Calderwood was not a popular manager at Forest, even when he took them up. I live up here and know that. The general feeling is Forest should have been promoted sooner and with less anguish than Calderwood delivered.

 

They are nothing like Doncaster. Davies will do just fine with Forest.

 

I would contest Doncaster's "bravery" for reasons already outlined. They've found a formula that has delivered their greatest ever success and stuck with it. Not that brave.

 

Doncaster's success (again, built on the investment of a rich fan: a "principle" of theirs you seem to be avoiding) is not down to their style of football per se. They've just stuck to a manager and a formula.

 

Bolton did that with Allardyce. But the style of football was completely different.

 

Sticking with Jan and "his principles" was not, is not, working.

 

We are in the worst season in living memory.

 

Doncaster are in their best season in living memory.

 

Saying Doncaster have been "braver" than us by, err, sticking with their most successful manager of all time, just doesn't stand up. It just is not that brave. It would have been much braver to sack him because that carries ten times more risk than sticking with him.

 

I'm not sure why you keep bringing the fans up - they don't appoint the manager or impose the style. If this whole thread is just you looking for an angle to "blame the fans", you say it isn't but I'm not sure, then you really are wasting your time.

Edited 18 February, 2009 by CB Fry
Removed the word "fact":bungle thinks that forums are something other than a collection of posters' opinions

[um pahars]

Well, I'm glad that you are also among people who think that your opinion is fact. Well done.

 

Fck me Mr Sanctimonious, not content with ripping into people for some gallows humour on one thread, you're now going to town here.

 

You may have missed the IMHO in my post and you have also subtlely overlooked that most things posted on a nerdy, anonymous internet message board are peoples opinions and take on things (unless they are talking about factual things such as number of appearances etc).

 

Maybe just for you, everyone should prefix or suffix their posts with IMHO so you don't blow a fuse.

 

The talent level can be judged on a smaller number of games. As I have said more than once on this thread (had you bothered to read it), is that we have struggled to consistantly show our talent. I point black will not accept that the young players have no ability, but I will accept that ability alone isn't enough, and that they needed to consistantly apply themselves.

 

And I would counter that maybe the odd game playing well above your station (and when the opposition underperform) does not suggest you have the ability to play like that ll the time and ultimately you will settle down to a more averagec / reflective level, which will be reflected in your league position over 28 games as opposed to just looking at one result.

 

All IMHO of course.

 

I certainly felt more positive about the team with JP in charge than I do with Wotte.

 

If you were confident under Poortvliet when we were in the bottom 3, playing sht, then you're more of an optimist than I am.

 

IMHO of course.

 

(All of the above is subjective and my personal opinion only, unless it is specifically noted as fact. TM Um Pahars © 2009)

[Arizona]

Well, I'm glad that you are also among people who think that your opinion is fact. Well done.

 

The talent level can be judged on a smaller number of games. As I have said more than once on this thread (had you bothered to read it), is that we have struggled to consistantly show our talent. I point black will not accept that the young players have no ability, but I will accept that ability alone isn't enough, and that they needed to consistantly apply themselves.

 

I certainly felt more positive about the team with JP in charge than I do with Wotte.

 

Surely you could apply that logic to 2002 when we beat Arsenal at SMS when they were one of, if not the, best team in Europe. And the same again in 2003 when we became the first team to beat Man Utd in the League for almost a year.

 

You cannot just take one instance where we caught one of the big guns with their pants down and claim that is our level. Every now and then you get a game where pretty much the whole side plays a blinder, like we did at Reading. BWP scored twice in a game for only the second time in his career, and one of those was a header. That sound like the BWP we all know and love?

 

We aren't inconsistent. Just a bad team that had three good performances (if you can't Derby and Brum) in about 35 games. All of them came against poor sides.

[bungle]

Surely you could apply that logic to 2002 when we beat Arsenal at SMS when they were one of, if not the, best team in Europe. And the same again in 2003 when we became the first team to beat Man Utd in the League for almost a year.

 

You cannot just take one instance where we caught one of the big guns with their pants down and claim that is our level. Every now and then you get a game where pretty much the whole side plays a blinder, like we did at Reading. BWP scored twice in a game for only the second time in his career, and one of those was a header. That sound like the BWP we all know and love?

 

We aren't inconsistent. Just a bad team that had three good performances (if you can't Derby and Brum) in about 35 games. All of them came against poor sides.

 

Who said I thought we were a 'top of the league team'? You are making stuff up. I have merely said the fact we have played well against some top teams shows we have talent. Much as in 2002 and 2003 because we had a good talent level we could give the top teams a game - it doesn't necessarily mean you think you will be top the league.

[slickmick]

Saw a little comment in the Observer on Sunday, praising Doncaster for sticking with their manager and their 'footballing principles' when they were doing badly, and they are now being forward for playing football the right way.

 

As I now watch a Saints team which before could play some quality football struggle to play a 5 yards square pass, I have to wonder what reverting back to "a proper championship style" (as many on here would call it) has got us?

 

How far back are you going ? Weve been crap for a long time under JP.

[CB Fry]

Who said I thought we were a 'top of the league team'? You are making stuff up. I have merely said the fact we have played well against some top teams shows we have talent. Much as in 2002 and 2003 because we had a good talent level we could give the top teams a game - it doesn't necessarily mean you think you will be top the league.

 

 

You seem to be determined to pick silly holes in what everyone says.

 

It's a shame because what everyone else says (28 games and second from bottom means we are, by any measure, rubbish) is right and what you're saying just isn't.

 

We beat Reading. A freak result. Gee. Professional footballers playing in the second tier have "some talent", you say? Wow. Not enough talent to be any better than second from bottom under the "brave" management you seem to be supporting.

[Arizona]

Who said I thought we were a 'top of the league team'? You are making stuff up. I have merely said the fact we have played well against some top teams shows we have talent. Much as in 2002 and 2003 because we had a good talent level we could give the top teams a game - it doesn't necessarily mean you think you will be top the league.

 

It shows that we have ability, but it doesn't mean we are capable of that kind of performance on a regular basis.

 

This season Derby have beaten Man Utd, Stoke and Burnley have beaten Arsenal. It doesn't mean they're underperforming and have more tallent than they show on a day to day basis.

[slickmick]

Well, I'm glad that you are also among people who think that your opinion is fact. Well done.

 

Glad to see you also, are among the people who think your opinion is fact. Well done.

 

Who said I thought we were a 'top of the league team'? You are making stuff up. I have merely said the fact we have played well against some top teams shows we have talent. Much as in 2002 and 2003 because we had a good talent level we could give the top teams a game - it doesn't necessarily mean you think you will be top the league.

[um pahars]

Who said I thought we were a 'top of the league team'? You are making stuff up.

 

And where is he saying that you thought we were a top of the league team?

 

I have merely said the fact we have played well against some top teams shows we have talent. Much as in 2002 and 2003 because we had a good talent level we could give the top teams a game - it doesn't necessarily mean you think you will be top the league.

 

Even in our relegation season we convincingly beat a team at their place who finished 7th in the Premiership. The performance in one match is nothing to base the rest of a season on, 28 games is a much better judge of how good a team is and perhaps more importantly, how good a manager you have.

 

If there is talent there to such a degree as you state, then pray tell why the "successful" Poortvliet managed to nurture it such a way that he left us second bottom staring relegation squarely in the face.

 

We've probably got a slightly lower than average squad, who for the first part of the season were overseen by probably the worst manager in our history.

 

(all of the above is IMHO blah, blah, blah).

[IFHP]

Saw a little comment in the Observer on Sunday, praising Doncaster for sticking with their manager and their 'footballing principles' when they were doing badly, and they are now being forward for playing football the right way.

 

As I now watch a Saints team which before could play some quality football struggle to play a 5 yards square pass, I have to wonder what reverting back to "a proper championship style" (as many on here would call it) has got us?

 

LOL at fans who think that passing the ball 10 yards across the halfway line getting nowhere is good football.

[Verbal Kint]

LOL at fans who think that passing the ball 10 yards across the halfway line getting nowhere is good football.

 

Absolutely. We haven't played good football this season. We've played, as Strachan used to say, propoganda football.