Legod Third Coming Posted 16 March, 2009 Share Posted 16 March, 2009 We need all the help we can get to survive. It is now time for the management at the club to simply advise stewards in the Northam to ignore standing and encourage more noise from this stand which should and can be the heartbeat of the club. (Spoken as someone who has never and will never go in there!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 16 March, 2009 Share Posted 16 March, 2009 Kneeling and the odd prayer may be required now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iowsaintsfan Posted 16 March, 2009 Share Posted 16 March, 2009 i thought they did anyway! well i can remember the last time i SAT in the Northam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 16 March, 2009 Share Posted 16 March, 2009 I was in the Northam for the Derby game and c.99% of people stood the whole game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulSaint Posted 16 March, 2009 Share Posted 16 March, 2009 I am in Row E (five from the front), the stewards usually manage to get roughly Rows A-H to sit & then give up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mao Cap Posted 16 March, 2009 Share Posted 16 March, 2009 Unofficially the stewards in the Northam have pretty much allowed standing for the last few years. They usually make one or two half-hearted sweeps until the crowd stands again at the next moment of excitement, then occupy themselves with more important things. It works pretty well as far as I can see, although I'm quite far back in row GG and have never spent a whole game sitting since SMS opened. I'm quite thankful that we generally have pretty fair-minded stewards who don't want to cause unnecessary trouble enforcing the bullsh*t enforced sitting policy, instead of the shaved-head-and-earpiece bouncer types itching to wade into football fans that you get at some places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northant Saint Posted 16 March, 2009 Share Posted 16 March, 2009 I am in Row E (five from the front), the stewards usually manage to get roughly Rows A-H to sit & then give up? Yes, for the QPR game we were sat in row M (I would prefer higher), but from about Q and below, the stewards seem to enforce sitting, whereas above this it is not the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 17 March, 2009 Share Posted 17 March, 2009 How this is supposed to be of any purpose whatsoever, other than ingratiating onself with a few Northam supporters that post on here? Standing in a seated area is dangerous not just to yourself but to others too. When will you start to realise its the law, not the club that you need to have an argument with? Jeez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted 17 March, 2009 Share Posted 17 March, 2009 How the hell is standing dangerous. It was dangerous when there was a fence around football stadiums, which hasn't happened for years, it is a joke of a law. It is dangerous to stand in West Quay, or anywhere else, except a football stadium? Jeez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorpe-le-Saint Posted 17 March, 2009 Share Posted 17 March, 2009 How the hell is standing dangerous. It was dangerous when there was a fence around football stadiums, which hasn't happened for years, it is a joke of a law. It is dangerous to stand in West Quay, or anywhere else, except a football stadium? Jeez. Or a gig?! Those who have been to an Oasis gig will know what I'm talking about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 17 March, 2009 Author Share Posted 17 March, 2009 How this is supposed to be of any purpose whatsoever, other than ingratiating onself with a few Northam supporters that post on here? Standing in a seated area is dangerous not just to yourself but to others too. When will you start to realise its the law, not the club that you need to have an argument with? Jeez. Yes, I remember going to the Take That concert at the 02 with the kids and being terrified that all hell might break lose during the period when 20,000 were not just standing but DANCING - can you imagine - in their seats... I called the police, the fire brigade and the coast-guard (well it was the Isle of Dogs) but they simply refused to believe that such a catastrophe waiting to happen was real. I was glad to get out alive. Especially when you consider all 20,000 of us left and stood on escalators to the ground floor. Terrifying. If we leave these people alone to stand they make more noise. More noise can't do our team any harm can it? Oh, it's also the law not to swear or shout abuse at a football match. Do you always abide by that too? And I have no need to ingratiate myself with people I'm never likely to meet do I? I'd rather p!ss off the quasi-fascists we have on here who want to uphold the law! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 17 March, 2009 Share Posted 17 March, 2009 How this is supposed to be of any purpose whatsoever, other than ingratiating onself with a few Northam supporters that post on here? Standing in a seated area is dangerous not just to yourself but to others too. When will you start to realise its the law, not the club that you need to have an argument with? Jeez. Crossing the road to get to the ground is even more dangerous. I suggest we all stay at home (and not touch anything sharp or electrical) rather than attend games from here on in, just in case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 17 March, 2009 Share Posted 17 March, 2009 How the hell is standing dangerous. It was dangerous when there was a fence around football stadiums, which hasn't happened for years, it is a joke of a law. It is dangerous to stand in West Quay, or anywhere else, except a football stadium? Jeez. Standing can be very difficult/dangerous/impossible - well if fuelled by 16 pints of 'old scrote' or 'geeza supastrength' ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Jonny Posted 17 March, 2009 Share Posted 17 March, 2009 Or a gig?! Those who have been to an Oasis gig will know what I'm talking about! An oasis gig? Try a metallica, machine head or lamb of god gig, then you would know more about danger! Ive seen countless injuries at gigs, never seen anything bad happen in the northam...(notts forest apart..) Making everyone sit is B/S I agree. Ive been thinking all season that, why dont the club move the away fans into the itchen corner and allow us to have the whole northam? Its always the first stand to sell out because people want to experience an atmosphere at a footy match. Imagine the noise we could make with the whole stand filled with Singing Saints fans! Would put SMS's reputation through the roof I reckon'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordswoodsaints Posted 17 March, 2009 Share Posted 17 March, 2009 the stewards seem to be able to enforce the seating policy in the disabled section so why not the northam? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorpe-le-Saint Posted 17 March, 2009 Share Posted 17 March, 2009 An oasis gig? Try a metallica, machine head or lamb of god gig, then you would know more about danger! Ive seen countless injuries at gigs, never seen anything bad happen in the northam...(notts forest apart..) Making everyone sit is B/S I agree. Ive been thinking all season that, why dont the club move the away fans into the itchen corner and allow us to have the whole northam? Its always the first stand to sell out because people want to experience an atmosphere at a footy match. Imagine the noise we could make with the whole stand filled with Singing Saints fans! Would put SMS's reputation through the roof I reckon'. I think the police have a lot to do with where the away fans go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londonsaint1604 Posted 17 March, 2009 Share Posted 17 March, 2009 How this is supposed to be of any purpose whatsoever, other than ingratiating onself with a few Northam supporters that post on here? Standing in a seated area is dangerous not just to yourself but to others too. When will you start to realise its the law, not the club that you need to have an argument with? Jeez. Oh dear, you don't have a ****ing clue what you're talking about mate. There is absolutely nothing dangerous about it. How many injuries have there been in the past few years as a result of people standing up in the northam? The law is a complete joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintDonkey Posted 17 March, 2009 Share Posted 17 March, 2009 Great idea - quick let's lobby parliment and get the law changed! We've already ended up having to pay thousands more for policing this season because of troubles with persistant standing. That could work either way admittedly - the heavier police presence takes the pressure off the stewards to enforce the no standing rule, only doing so when directly requested by the policemenm present. Problem is if the police do instruct the stewards to enforce no standing - and some fans get militant over standing again - the club could face a major fine. Just what we don't need right now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 17 March, 2009 Share Posted 17 March, 2009 Great idea - quick let's lobby parliment and get the law changed! We've already ended up having to pay thousands more for policing this season because of troubles with persistant standing. That could work either way admittedly - the heavier police presence takes the pressure off the stewards to enforce the no standing rule, only doing so when directly requested by the policemenm present. Problem is if the police do instruct the stewards to enforce no standing - and some fans get militant over standing again - the club could face a major fine. Just what we don't need right now! not so sure the police get involved in making people sit down that much (unless there is some sort of confrontation between steward and supporter). Its Health & Safety that insist on people sitting down or we get no liscense. The club then uses the stwards to `try' to enforce that rule. I guess they then do just enough to show the HSE that they are trying to enforce this law. At present I think it works quite well as everyone knows where they stand (pardon the pun). If you want to stand you get a ticket near the back of the Northam or Itchen Block 3, if you don't then sit in any one of the 35+ other blocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 17 March, 2009 Share Posted 17 March, 2009 Oh dear, you don't have a ****ing clue what you're talking about mate. There is absolutely nothing dangerous about it. How many injuries have there been in the past few years as a result of people standing up in the northam? The law is a complete joke. Oh dear, I'm afraid I do know what I'm talking about 'mate'. If there were no seats in the way, it would be much less of an issue. The fact is the seats present a very clear H&S risk for standing - i.e. if someone was to topple over one and take out people in front domino fashion. I have seen idiots fueled by alchohol topple and fall down the steps in the Northam on more than one occasion, so don't tell me it can't happen. I suspect if you were badly injured you'd be one of the first to bring a lawsuit against the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 17 March, 2009 Share Posted 17 March, 2009 not so sure the police get involved in making people sit down that much (unless there is some sort of confrontation between steward and supporter). Its Health & Safety that insist on people sitting down or we get no liscense. The club then uses the stwards to `try' to enforce that rule. I guess they then do just enough to show the HSE that they are trying to enforce this law. At present I think it works quite well as everyone knows where they stand (pardon the pun). If you want to stand you get a ticket near the back of the Northam or Itchen Block 3, if you don't then sit in any one of the 35+ other blocks. you are right, police shouldn't get involved with ground regulation issues unless there is likely to be other trouble, hence you won't normally see police involved in sitting people down, odd person invading pitch, streaker etc - these should all be dealt with by stewards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 17 March, 2009 Share Posted 17 March, 2009 not so sure the police get involved in making people sit down that much (unless there is some sort of confrontation between steward and supporter). Its Health & Safety that insist on people sitting down or we get no liscense. The club then uses the stwards to `try' to enforce that rule. I guess they then do just enough to show the HSE that they are trying to enforce this law. At present I think it works quite well as everyone knows where they stand (pardon the pun). If you want to stand you get a ticket near the back of the Northam or Itchen Block 3, if you don't then sit in any one of the 35+ other blocks. A voice of reason...at last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRM Posted 17 March, 2009 Share Posted 17 March, 2009 the club could face a major fine. Just what we don't need right now! There is no way we would get a fine. Virtually every all seater ground in the country has an area where a section of the fans stand, and the ones that don't only tend to be the clubs who have rubbish support and no atmosphere anyway. I have definitely noticed an increasing number of grounds where the stewards only act on standing if it occurs in areas where most are sitting. The "no standing" legislation wasn't properly thought through at the time, and the obvious discrimination towards football fans (e.g, ok to stand at Rugby, concerts, etc) has lead quite rightly to fans treating it with no respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 17 March, 2009 Share Posted 17 March, 2009 Oh dear, I'm afraid I do know what I'm talking about 'mate'. If there were no seats in the way, it would be much less of an issue. The fact is the seats present a very clear H&S risk for standing - i.e. if someone was to topple over one and take out people in front domino fashion. I have seen idiots fueled by alchohol topple and fall down the steps in the Northam on more than one occasion, so don't tell me it can't happen. I suspect if you were badly injured you'd be one of the first to bring a lawsuit against the club. I still think it's irresponsible of the club to encourage people to cross dangerous highways to get to the ground and attend matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorpe-le-Saint Posted 17 March, 2009 Share Posted 17 March, 2009 There is no way we would get a fine. Virtually every all seater ground in the country has an area where a section of the fans stand, and the ones that don't only tend to be the clubs who have rubbish support and no atmosphere anyway. I have definitely noticed an increasing number of grounds where the stewards only act on standing if it occurs in areas where most are sitting. The "no standing" legislation wasn't properly thought through at the time, and the obvious discrimination towards football fans (e.g, ok to stand at Rugby, concerts, etc) has lead quite rightly to fans treating it with no respect. Agreed. Fulham's 'supporters' are a case in point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 17 March, 2009 Share Posted 17 March, 2009 You can see the Lowe Out banners better when they're held standing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londonsaint1604 Posted 17 March, 2009 Share Posted 17 March, 2009 Oh dear, I'm afraid I do know what I'm talking about 'mate'. If there were no seats in the way, it would be much less of an issue. The fact is the seats present a very clear H&S risk for standing - i.e. if someone was to topple over one and take out people in front domino fashion. I have seen idiots fueled by alchohol topple and fall down the steps in the Northam on more than one occasion, so don't tell me it can't happen. I suspect if you were badly injured you'd be one of the first to bring a lawsuit against the club. So what you're saying is, we should ban people from using the steps as well because they are also dangerous? What about when a goal is scored, should we allow people to stand up and celebrate? Surely that is more dangerous than when people are simply standing up watching the game. I have never seen any problems caused by people standing up, it's really not that hard you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 17 March, 2009 Share Posted 17 March, 2009 I still think it's irresponsible of the club to encourage people to cross dangerous highways to get to the ground and attend matches. I take it that is a serious comment as there's no 'winky'? Shall I spell it out for you? The 'dangerous highways' are not inside the ground and therefore no responsibility for the club to uphold the law....can't believe I've just had to explain that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londonsaint1604 Posted 17 March, 2009 Share Posted 17 March, 2009 I take it that is a serious comment as there's no 'winky'? Shall I spell it out for you? The 'dangerous highways' are not inside the ground and therefore no responsibility for the club to uphold the law....can't believe I've just had to explain that! But why should the club bother to uphold such a ridiculous and pointless law? If it was going to get fined because it had failed to do so then it would have happened by now. It's not as if the police who are present at the games don't notice several thousand people standing up and making a lot of noise for 90 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted 17 March, 2009 Share Posted 17 March, 2009 Cam, you obviously don't sit in the Northam/Itchen block 3, so why not leave those that want to stand to get on with it and potentially seriously injure themselves (LOL), rather than telling us what we can and can't do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 17 March, 2009 Share Posted 17 March, 2009 I take it that is a serious comment as there's no 'winky'? Shall I spell it out for you? The 'dangerous highways' are not inside the ground and therefore no responsibility for the club to uphold the law.... Agree that they have no direct legal responsibility for fan's welfare on her Majesty's highways but surely to actively encourage people to take the greater risk of travelling to the stadium than it is to actually stand in the stadium when you get there is morally irresponsible? (sorry, here's the for the previous post too....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 17 March, 2009 Share Posted 17 March, 2009 So what you're saying is, we should ban people from using the steps as well because they are also dangerous? What about when a goal is scored, should we allow people to stand up and celebrate? Surely that is more dangerous than when people are simply standing up watching the game. I have never seen any problems caused by people standing up, it's really not that hard you know. Stupid comment - you use the steps as a legitimate thoroughfare and so are standing anyway. Why do you pay for insurance? To cover you in the event of an emergency...but until you need to use it, you don't need it - right? With H&S legislation its the same principle for the Club - they need to demonstrate due care otherwise some wally will fall over, potentially hurt others and wind up with a lawsuit. If some lumbering drunken oaf fell on your child/friend/relative causing injury, you'd be up in arms I'm sure. The trouble with all this kind of stuff is that there are always a minority of idiots that will spoil it for everyone else. There are several horrific accidents that have happened at football stadiums - are you too young to remember them? Perhaps we should go back to the days of Hillsborough eh? Stadium regulations and health and safety controls are there for a purpose, lets not forget that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 17 March, 2009 Share Posted 17 March, 2009 Cam, you obviously don't sit in the Northam/Itchen block 3, so why not leave those that want to stand to get on with it and potentially seriously injure themselves (LOL), rather than telling us what we can and can't do. No I don't go there - and if I did to be fair, I would not mind standing as I like the atmosphere it generates. However, not everyone wants to stand. So, perhaps there should be a petition raised by someone like the thread starter to lobby the club to introduce a standing area? It might see some success, who knows. But to kick the club for controls that have been progressively introduced by law due to some of the terrible scenes of death and injury at football stadiums in the past, is not being mature or reasonable IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 17 March, 2009 Share Posted 17 March, 2009 The law says all seater/no standing, the club/supporters can ignore this if they want at their peril, however any third party accident/injury caused by people standing leaves the individuals, club and employees ignoring the law, open to legal action. In the event of a court case, one could expect the law to be enforced, possibly areas cleared and closed if the warnings not heeded. The law needs reviewing, safe standing areas constructed with barriers provided. I'm not sure that standing isn't allowed in the first and second divisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londonsaint1604 Posted 17 March, 2009 Share Posted 17 March, 2009 If some lumbering drunken oaf fell on your child/friend/relative causing injury, you'd be up in arms I'm sure. That could happen anyway, especially when a goal is scored and everyone jumps around like lunatics. It could also happen in the concourse at half time when everyone is standing up. There are several horrific accidents that have happened at football stadiums - are you too young to remember them? Perhaps we should go back to the days of Hillsborough eh? Stadium regulations and health and safety controls are there for a purpose, lets not forget that. I am to young to remember them (in fact I was reading some fascinating accounts of Hillsborough just the other day) but it's not quite the same thing is it? In fact that has no relevance at all - Hillsborough was not caused by people standing up at the football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londonsaint1604 Posted 17 March, 2009 Share Posted 17 March, 2009 The law says all seater/no standing, the club/supporters can ignore this if they want at their peril, however any third party accident/injury caused by people standing leaves the individuals, club and employees ignoring the law, open to legal action. In the event of a court case, one could expect the law to be enforced, possibly areas cleared and closed if the warnings not heeded. The law needs reviewing, safe standing areas constructed with barriers provided. I'm not sure that standing isn't allowed in the first and second divisions. I stood on terraces at Ninian Park this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 17 March, 2009 Share Posted 17 March, 2009 I stood on terraces at Ninian Park this season. Clubs in the top two divisions either planning to build or as in Cardiff's case building new stadiums, can obtain an exemption to retain their standing areas until the move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londonsaint1604 Posted 17 March, 2009 Share Posted 17 March, 2009 Clubs in the top two divisions either planning to build or as in Cardiff's case building new stadiums, can obtain an exemption to retain their standing areas until the move. Oh right, I was wondering about that actually. Also I did fear for my life that day! Those terraces are a death trap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordswoodsaints Posted 17 March, 2009 Share Posted 17 March, 2009 [quote=Jonny_Lewis; Making everyone sit is B/S I agree. Ive been thinking all season that, why dont the club move the away fans into the itchen corner and allow us to have the whole northam? Its always the first stand to sell out because people want to experience an atmosphere at a footy match. Imagine the noise we could make with the whole stand filled with Singing Saints fans! Would put SMS's reputation through the roof I reckon'. i dont agree im afraid,moving the away fans out of the northam would be rubbish,the northam never sells out and there are always plenty of empty seats so how the hell are they going to sell the seats when they have the whole end? i think you will find that the atmospere would be crap as everybody would spread out,having the 'singing' fans condensed into a small area is what makes the northam what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 17 March, 2009 Share Posted 17 March, 2009 Hillsborough was not caused by people standing up at the football. No it was not. However, it was made a lot worse due to the nature of crowd control at the time. The varous controls that have been introduced over time to ensure everyones safety are all linked. If you cannot see that, its clear you're unable to see the 'big picture' to be honest. I also do not believe the club is in a position financially to make significant alterations to the stadium layout even if Lowe and Co wanted to...it would not be a simple case of just cordening off a section or similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mao Cap Posted 18 March, 2009 Share Posted 18 March, 2009 On a sort-of related note, Morecambe are to become the first League club to build a new ground with standing areas - 5,000 out of 7,000 places as well! - http://www.fsf.org.uk/news/Morecambe-to-introduce-safe-standing-at-new-stadium.php?id= Big news for the standing lobby, even if it's only a little Fourth Division club like Morecambe. Hopefully this is the start of a trend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 18 March, 2009 Share Posted 18 March, 2009 On a sort-of related note, Morecambe are to become the first League club to build a new ground with standing areas - 5,000 out of 7,000 places as well! - http://www.fsf.org.uk/news/Morecambe-to-introduce-safe-standing-at-new-stadium.php?id= Big news for the standing lobby, even if it's only a little Fourth Division club like Morecambe. Hopefully this is the start of a trend. Well that's nice. I suppose you could say that Lowe and Co are working hard to put us into a position whereby lower league rules apply! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mao Cap Posted 19 March, 2009 Share Posted 19 March, 2009 Well that's nice. I suppose you could say that Lowe and Co are working hard to put us into a position whereby lower league rules apply! Morecambe, 'ere we come Morecambe Morecambe 'ere we come Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamster Posted 19 March, 2009 Share Posted 19 March, 2009 Well that's nice. I suppose you could say that Lowe and Co are working hard to put us into a position whereby lower league rules apply! You could say that they are 'wise' after the event I spose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fareham saint phil Posted 19 March, 2009 Share Posted 19 March, 2009 Simple if you want to sit down, pick another stand, been in the northam once but with small kids it wasn't any good, so i know to sit elsewhere now. The stewards must know they have no chance so just do a couple of "please sit down" gestures and leave it be, there is danger when they wade in, if left there is no danger simple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 19 March, 2009 Share Posted 19 March, 2009 kneeling and the odd prayer may be required now. lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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