Jan issues wake-up call. OS.

[offix]

Amazing the amount of people coming to this conclusion.......finally.

 

Better late than never, but I am feeling somewhat vindicated as history unfolds.

 

George Burley will be looked back on as possibly the worst manager in SFC history.

 

Wholeheartedly agreed

[stevegrant]

Wow, and people accuse me of having anti-Burley tinted glasses....

Rather than just make a snide comment, how about you actually tell me which bit(s) you think are from behind tinted glasses?

[alpine_saint]

Rather than just make a snide comment, how about you actually tell me which bit(s) you think are from behind tinted glasses?

 

How about inferring Redknapp was a bad as Burley because of £4M he would have spent on Andy Reid (but didnt), for starters ???

 

Oh, and "pie man" Reid totally bossed the midfield in the Saints v Charlton game last season, against Burley "luminaries" such as Idiakez, Wright and Viafara...

 

And blaming Jim Hone for buying expensive turkeys, when actually the manager couldnt get them to contribute their (perceived) worth, well, that one is really funny, Steve...

Edited 25 August, 2008 by alpine_saint

[St Landrew]

I've actually bothered to read the comments by Poortvliet from the link, because my last post was just a general opinion of the man as a coach. I think they are outstanding. He's saying all the right things, and the players with reputations need to start listening.

 

EDIT: BTW peeps, just to remind you, this is a thread about Poortvliet.

[alpine_saint]

I've actually bothered to read the comments by Poortvliet from the link, because my last post was just a general opinion of the man as a coach. I think they are outstanding. He's saying all the right things, and the players with reputations need to start listening.

 

EDIT: BTW peeps, just to remind you, this is a thread about Poortvliet.

 

Of course it is, but it's human to illustrate the contrast to the previous managers.

[stevegrant]

How about inferring Redknapp was a bad as Burley because of £4M he would have spent on Andy Reid (but didnt), for starters ???

That wasn't the inference. You stated that Redknapp wasn't given money to spend. I pointed out that that was clearly untrue, unless of course we put that bid in without any intention of actually buying the player, which would be a bit odd, I'm sure you'd agree...

 

Oh, and "pie man" Reid totally bossed the midfield in the Saints v Charlton game last season, against Burley "luminaries" such as Idiakez, Wright and Viafara...

Didn't say he's not a good player (far too good for this division), but he is a bit on the large side.

 

And blaming Jim Hone for buying expensive turkeys, when actually the manager couldnt get them to contribute their (perceived) worth, well, that one is really funny, Steve...

Burley identified the players, no question with that, and it's also up to him to get them playing, which he managed to do on an intermittent basis at best. However, many people said at the time that the prices we were paying for players appeared to be much more than they were perceived to be worth, and it seems to have been a case of "no questions asked" by the board when they were sanctioning those transfers. I'm pretty sure nobody held a gun to Hone's head when he was signing the cheques, that's for sure.

[Legod Second Coming]

Amazing the amount of people coming to this conclusion.......finally.

 

Better late than never, but I am feeling somewhat vindicated as history unfolds.

 

George Burley will be looked back on as possibly the worst manager in SFC history.

 

On that I disagree.

 

My point is more that GB was allowed/was set a minimal target.

 

Targets are like destinations on a journey and if you know what your end target is, then you set appropriate 'way-points' or milestones.

 

In Burley's case, he SHOULD have been asked to set a goal of automatic promotion and then work backwards.

 

Had he been, perhaps he would have set more stretching objectives for his players, chalked off points at a faster pace, etc.

 

I just find it totally odd in this country that we accept someone can be set a target to be SIXTH best... mind boggling.

 

I bet there are kids across America and Australia today whose parents are pushing them to be the 6th best at what they do... NOT...

[Matt SFC]

Cheer up everyone...we actually won a game!

[benjii]

Burley's first season and a half were fine IMO.

 

Last season was pathetic.

 

Anyway - Jan is rapidly becoming a colt hero.

 

Have seen him out and about a couple of times and he comes accross as a nice guy who's dead happy to be here and has settled really well. He also seems to want a good raport with the fans - something that Burley was pretty useless at.

[alpine_saint]

On that I disagree.

 

My point is more that GB was allowed/was set a minimal target.

 

Targets are like destinations on a journey and if you know what your end target is, then you set appropriate 'way-points' or milestones.

 

In Burley's case, he SHOULD have been asked to set a goal of automatic promotion and then work backwards.

 

Had he been, perhaps he would have set more stretching objectives for his players, chalked off points at a faster pace, etc.

 

I just find it totally odd in this country that we accept someone can be set a target to be SIXTH best... mind boggling.

 

I bet there are kids across America and Australia today whose parents are pushing them to be the 6th best at what they do... NOT...

 

So why was he happy to set himself that target ? A supposedly experienced manager who we must assume had some pride and ambition ? Surely any manager should do his damnedest to stretch himself and over-achieve.

 

We had a promotion-standard squad that he made look pretty ordinary, imo.

[Thedelldays]

Burley's first season and a half were fine IMO.

 

Last season was pathetic.

 

Anyway - Jan is rapidly becoming a colt hero.

 

Have seen him out and about a couple of times and he comes accross as a nice guy who's dead happy to be here and has settled really well. He also seems to want a good raport with the fans - something that Burley was pretty useless at.

 

I think our crazy little set up is quality

[Windmill Arm 2]

I think this shows the Pro Burley fools from last season, simply have no idea. Burley is a very bad manager.

[Legod Second Coming]

So why was he happy to set himself that target ? A supposedly experienced manager who we must assume had some pride and ambition ? Surely any manager should do his damnedest to stretch himself and over-achieve.

 

We had a promotion-standard squad that he made look pretty ordinary, imo.

 

 

Why was he happy to accept it? Why not?? If your boss offered you a choice to be great at your job or good as a basis to judge you, which would you choose?? On one you can but fail, on the other you have the opportunity to over-exceed.

 

He should not have been given the choice.

[Professor]

Redknapp CHOSE to only spend £90k on Fuller, plus plenty more in wages and signing-on fees for free transfers like Dennis Wise and Darren Powell (who we've only just managed to get shot of). In January of the relegation season we had a £4m bid for Forest's Andy Reid accepted, but he chose to not even speak to us because of the style of play Redknapp was employing at the time.

 

 

Redknapp was given plenty of money to spend (see above), he chose to bring in loans as well as an attempt to get pie-man Reid. Oh, and of course if he hadn't made out that he was doing us such a favour by staying after we were relegated and instead made it look as if he was remotely interested in getting us promoted, he might have been given more to play with.

 

As I mentioned a couple of weeks ago, the vast majority of Burley's signings did contribute at one stage or another (admittedly not on a consistent enough basis or all at the same time). Unfortunately we over-paid for a lot of them (Burley wouldn't have been the one to blame there, Jim Hone and Lee Hoos would have done the negotiations on transfer fees and wages) and are now paying the price for that.

A fair and accurate assessment. The only thing I would say in mitigation for Burley, was that he was not managed from above. Had either Wilde or Crouch proved to have been a strong capable chairman, Burley might have been forced to do better, as his track record suggests he does have the ability if its focused. As it was, its hard to see anything about his management that could be praised, from his transfer selections - too often, just players he knew from the past, his team selections - simply weird, and his tactics. The luckiest thing for saints was the SFA coming in for him when they did.

[Micky]

Ahhhh how refreshing - a thread entitled 'Jan issues wake-up call' degenerates into yet another 'Burley out' thread - same old suspects, same old arguments, same old counter arguments, same old outcome, same old,...... everything really.

 

He's gone - left the building, moved on, perhaps others should follow suit.

 

Now, what was the title on this thread again....????

[Micky]

edited

[alpine_saint]

A fair and accurate assessment. The only thing I would say in mitigation for Burley, was that he was not managed from above. Had either Wilde or Crouch proved to have been a strong capable chairman, Burley might have been forced to do better, as his track record suggests he does have the ability if its focused. As it was, its hard to see anything about his management that could be praised, from his transfer selections - too often, just players he knew from the past, his team selections - simply weird, and his tactics. The luckiest thing for saints was the SFA coming in for him when they did.

 

Au contraire.

 

Burley's track record demonstrates a tendency to quit and walk out if pushed too much from above.

 

Anyway, I for one am glad JP speaks with much more ambition and positiveness. I was calling for this all along from the ex-manager.

[PokingFun]

I think this shows the Pro Burley fools from last season, simply have no idea. Burley is a very bad manager.

 

Burley did not do as well for us as some may have expected but he still has a decent track record overall and the fact that an international side wanted him as their manager really does not suggest that he is a very bad manager.

 

Also, the fact that people were pro Burley does not make them fools it just means they have a different opinion to yours.

[St Landrew]

OK, you've had your time and comments on Burley. Time to get back to the subject - Jan Poortvliet.

[Saint Charlie]

Lets just ****ing shut up about Burely, he has long gone and lets focus on the future under JP.

 

Alpine, please try not to ruin every threadf

 

HTH

[St Landrew]

Lets just ****ing shut up about Burely, he has long gone and lets focus on the future under JP.

 

Alpine, please try not to ruin every threadf

 

HTH

 

Thanks for the input. Poortvliet only please, and other previous managers only mentioned for comparison. Ta.

[alpine_saint]

OK, you've had your time and comments on Burley. Time to get back to the subject - Jan Poortvliet.

 

Ok, so if I feel inclined, I can start a thread to slag Burley off, can I ?

 

Hmmm.. Thought not.

 

Are we going down the road of regulating what we can discuss again ?

 

Saint Charlie, I will comment on what I want, where I feel its relevant. Give it a rest with this "ruining thread" crap. It wasnt me who brought Burley up.

[Guan 2.0]

I think our crazy little set up is quality

 

 

Indeed, a real 'crazy gang' us-against-the-world spirit, reminiscent of the original Wimbledon, mixed in with Rudd Gullit's dream of 'shexy football'.

[Arizona]

There's a peculiar thing about the Dutch. Everybody likes them. And I like Poortvliet, and his style. I certainly like the style of play he tries to get Saints to play, and that's half the battle with getting me to be pleased. I would quite happily take boring 1-0s all the way to automatic promotion, but this is much better. Just keep it going for the next 43 games Jan.

 

I challenge anyone to live in Holland for 2 months and not develop an irrational hatred of the Dutch language. You know the ringtone adverts you get on music TV stations like MTV and TMF... they are twice as annoying in Dutch. Sounds like some kind of German/Welsh hybrid to me.

[Saint Martini]

I challenge anyone to live in Holland for 2 months and not develop an irrational hatred of the Dutch language. You know the ringtone adverts you get on music TV stations like MTV and TMF... they are twice as annoying in Dutch. Sounds like some kind of German/Welsh hybrid to me.

 

They're just as annoying to Dutch people, nothing to do with the Dutch language I'm afraid. The way they promote these bloody ringtones is just more annoying then for instance in the UK.

 

Anyway, I was just reading the thread on the team for today and I thought perhaps JP was sending this message to the players outside the first eleven because he'll give them a chance against Brum. It would make sense in some way.