The 'Red Bull' Scenario

Prompted by rumours of Red Bull sponsorship I have been considering the possible implications of the involvement of the drinks company.

They seem to have a philosophy of taking over the football clubs they sponsor, Red Bull Salzburg and the NY Red Bulls being the most prominent examples, in the process the stadium, kit and identity of the club gets essentially wiped out to make way for the White and Red trappings of the drinks empire.

Would this be possible here, or do English league regulations make it impossible for a team to have corporate naming along the lines of 'Red Bull Southampton,' or to a lesser example Total Network Solutions? Could that be a saving grace?

Under what circumstance, if any, would this be acceptable? Could you still support Saints should similar happen to us?

For me, I see it as not quite a franchise fc scenario if the club stays in Southampton and plays in White/Red. Attempts to brand the team as the 'Red Bulls' would be initially futile as we would still hold on to our 'Saints' identity but I would understand why a breakaway club would be desired by many. The club would still be a direct continuation of Southampton, playing within the city and therefore I would still support it.

I'd be actively against it. How dare you try to durn my club. passtime and passion into a advert.

I personally would love to see Red Bull Saints play Aon United of Manchester in the Barclays Premier soccerball league.

Can't really see it happening here, they'd have to buy us out first. And we don't have a history of franchising, would only go as far as sponsorship imo. More likely we would be entry into the league, and they'll sponsor a bigger team once they see the roi.

I'd hate it but lump it.

I'm pretty sure the Premier League rules prevent any sponsorship club naming, or otherwise others would have done it already. I do know the FA blocked "Coventry Talbot" back in the 1980s, although they got railroaded by the Premier League within 10 years and appear to have entirely abandoned any principles or interest in preserving football against the tide of money ever since, so I'm sure they could get something through if they needed to.

After all, both the FL and the FA agreed in principle that Wimbledon being moved to MK was a bad thing and shouldn't happen, and there's a rule that clubs should relate to the conurbation for which they are named, but they keeled over into appointing an independent arbitration panel which approved the move nevertheless.

In terms of Red Bull Saints supporting, I really would hate it, and would probably spend more time watching my home town club, seeing as I'm now in the weird position of having 2 clubs I have supported for over 15 years each both in the 92. It would still take a lot for me to dump a ST for the Premier League club within 5 miles of my house though.

Pointless thread. Red Bull aren't going to be our new sponsor. They're not even in discussions. So you can relax.

Pointless thread. Red Bull aren't going to be our new sponsor. They're not even in discussions. So you can relax.

No. Given the globalisation of the modern game, the profile of the premier league and the behaviour of companies such as Red Bull in other european and international leagues it's far from pointless.

This will be happening in the English game at some point, of that I have no doubt. Considering what would happen from our perspective should it happen is worthy of discussion for me... especially as it's the off season and I need something to distract me from reality. .

Yeah, I think we're all aware Red Bull aren't going to be our sponsor, but it IS worthy of discussion, as it opens up questions about what it is we're actually supporting.

If people want to support a marketing franchise thats up to them, but it shan't be for me.

I'd support a breakaway club or Eastleigh.

I could not support a Red Bull corporate team.

It would no longer be Southampton Football Club in any shape or form. One might argue that with the modern game and structure, it is already halfway there, but there remains a core SFC spirit whoever owns the club at any given time. This, I think, would wipe that out.

If people want to support a marketing franchise thats up to them, but it shan't be for me.

 

I'd support a breakaway club or Eastleigh.

FC Saints of Southampton? Playing at Totton??

I am an FC Fan

and i am a Sotonian

I know what i want and i know how to get

i wanna Destroy, Red Bull and Sky

cause i wannna beeeeeeeee FC

Red Bull Salzburg is probably the main example, NY Red Bull was a franchise set up anyway and they are used to that sort of thing in the USA. Salzburg were completely re-branded and the soul of the club was changed.

Also Cardiff anyone? The name is still the same but the complete change of colours etc. is a worry.

For me I would totally against it, there are some levels of commercialism I could grudgingly accept like a stadium name change, but changing the clubs name, colours, trying to wipe out it's history etc is far too far. I would seriously have to think about supporting another club.

http://thesunshineroom.com/2013/05/30/bull****-rodeo/

Replace the * with sh.it. Worth looking at.

Red Bull Salzburg is probably the main example, NY Red Bull was a franchise set up anyway and they are used to that sort of thing in the USA. Salzburg were completely re-branded and the soul of the club was changed.

I see what you mean about NY Red Bulls and it's franchise origin, it was however a rebrand of the NY Metrostars who were originally known as Empire Soccer Club, but yes in America this kind of thing is more accepted. Red Bull also did a rebrand of small german side SSV Makranstadt to form RB Leipzig.... although owing to German rules regarding company branding in sport the RB stands for "Rasen Ballsport" or "Pitch Ball Sporting" Leipzig.... very clumsy.... what on earth could they do to get around that here?

http://thesunshineroom.com/2013/05/30/bull****-rodeo/

 

Replace the * with sh.it. Worth looking at.

That was quality - website bookmarked for further reading

i wouldn't be surprised if stadium naming rights are up for grabs

It's the way the world is going. I'd hate it but at least we have a club - IIRC that was seriously in doubt not too long ago! So FC Saints wouldn't be for me. Having said that, any breakaway club would still be above Pompey in five years.

It's the way the world is going. I'd hate it but at least we have a club - IIRC that was seriously in doubt not too long ago! So FC Saints or AFC Southampton etc wouldn't be for me. Having said that, any breakaway club would still be above Pompey in five years.

If it was to ever happen I would never attend another game... until we reach the CL final.

I see what you mean about NY Red Bulls and it's franchise origin, it was however a rebrand of the NY Metrostars who were originally known as Empire Soccer Club, but yes in America this kind of thing is more accepted. Red Bull also did a rebrand of small german side SSV Makranstadt to form RB Leipzig.... although owing to German rules regarding company branding in sport the RB stands for "Rasen Ballsport" or "Pitch Ball Sporting" Leipzig.... very clumsy.... what on earth could they do to get around that here?

MLS is franchised by its nature, and mainstream US sports all adhere to this model, so US fans are used to it. In addition the league itself isn't 20 years old yet and the membership has very much fluctuated in that time, so it's not like fans have built up generations of support, they accepted a level of "plasticity" when the league began. Which is not to say fans haven't built up a bond with the organisation - but when you can just create a new team in the east of the same city and potentially suck fans away for merchandising reasons alone, you have to say the "bond" isn't as strong as it is in most European countries.

The RB Leipzig example is interesting, you can see just from the shirts that RedBull haven't had their own way as they'd wish to, they have "normal sized" adverts on the shirt rather than the RedBulls logo dominating the front of the shirt as with other sides, and the tricky naming convention is also down to the DFB having more balls than I expect the FA to have in a similar situation.

Tried linking the cartoon from BS Rodeo above but the sweary detector prevents the pic linking working too.

However, if you're in any doubt whether to read it or not, "Angry Birds Lego Bum Poo Wee FC managed by the reanimated corpse of Klaus Barbie playing in the PaedoLand stadium" should do it.

Oh, and there's this too :

Tried linking the cartoon from BS Rodeo above but the sweary detector prevents the pic linking working too.

 

However, if you're in any doubt whether to read it or not, "Angry Birds Lego Bum Poo Wee FC managed by the reanimated corpse of Klaus Barbie playing in the PaedoLand stadium" should do it.

Perhaps I can be of assistance?

Bull**** Rodeo http://wp.me/p1FLXq-3I via @wordpressdotcom

Perhaps I can be of assistance?

 

Bull**** Rodeo http://wp.me/p1FLXq-3I via @wordpressdotcom

Still doesn't work for an image link because it's not the source, I just get the IMG FAIL box

However, this is different, and amusing.

Going back to the original point, what odds the FA defending any kind of money-based activity, when they've already decided to relegate Doncaster Belles out of the top division of Women's Football (bear with me) next season, purely because they're not "box office" enough, and encourage this kind of repressive behaviour against the protests : http://www.wsc.co.uk/wsc-daily/1162-may-2013/9843-fa-try-to-silence-doncaster-belles-cup-final-protest

Going back to the original point, what odds the FA defending any kind of money-based activity, when they've already decided to relegate Doncaster Belles out of the top division of Women's Football (bear with me) next season, purely because they're not "box office" enough, and encourage this kind of repressive behaviour against the protests : http://www.wsc.co.uk/wsc-daily/1162-may-2013/9843-fa-try-to-silence-doncaster-belles-cup-final-protest

now what the FA need if they want to create a box office sucess for women's football is Team Femen. There must be 15 or so gals who aren't bad at football who don't mind whipping them out for 90 minutes a week (plus stoppage time of course).

It won't happen, you can stop worrying.

It's happening over here in Leipzig.

They've just won the home leg in their relegation playoffs 2-0, and they'd be in third division already, after starting in sixth division by German football laws.

They are not allowed to be called "Red Bull Leipzig", due to the German FA, forbidding sponsor club names as well. So they are officially called "Rasenball Leipzig", literally translated "Lawn-Ball Leipzig", of course shortened to RB Leipzig.

They are opposed by the overwhelming majority of German football fans, resulting in clubs often rejecting offers to play friendlies against them.

In that relegation match, there have been 1.000 fans in the away end, just 50 of them supporting their opponent, Sportfreunde Lotte. The rest was there to protest against them.

I personally would love to see Red Bull Saints play Aon United of Manchester in the Barclays Premier soccerball league.

or Chevrolet United of Manchester

It won't happen, you can stop worrying.

I don't think anyone's worrying, and I don't think anyone thinks it's going to happen (soon). It is an interesting hypothetical discussion though.

Even if name changing isn't allowed are there any laws that say a sponsor couldn't name the stadium, have the shirt sponsor & be the only advertising on the big screen & pitch side boards & even the smaller things like say drinks bottles or even bandages or wristbands

Even if name changing isn't allowed are there any laws that say a sponsor couldn't name the stadium, have the shirt sponsor & be the only advertising on the big screen & pitch side boards & even the smaller things like say drinks bottles or even bandages or wristbands

Stadium sponsorship is allowed, shirt sponsorship is allowed. In-stadium sponsorship is at the discretion of the club within certain regulations, though the Prem also sells advertising on the rotating boards which has to be shown.

Drinks bottles are provided by the Premier league (and sponsored by official PL sponsors), and there are regulations preventing additional advertising on bandages and wristbands (and any other superfluous kit pieces worn by players) under PL and FIFA sponsorship rules.