Ex Lion Tamer

Exactly, it's not about being dogmatic "private is better", or "public is better", but what's right for the particular industry.

This is getting confusing because earlier in this thread we established that socialism is social ownership of the means of production and co-operative management of the economy, nothing to do with the welfare state, but anyway... So you're saying we should no longer have a welfare state because some people abuse it? It's hello mass poverty if so

Can you give examples? I genuinely don't know what aspects of socialism go against the apparently selfish human condition. As I say, I feel like strong government helps to negate human selfishness

Can you explain why, in practice that means we need conservatism? In some ways I agree - I want to make money and lead a comfortable life for myself. But that's exactly why I want a strong government to step in and tax me a good amount, because by choice I probably wouldn't give enough to help the people who really need it. Same with inheritance tax, I get that it is a human instinct to want to pass wealth on to your children, but that's exactly why the government should step in and tax it, because the greater good is for children to have to earn their money rather than have it on a plate. Free market capitalism allows our selfishness to run too freely

Wouldn't like to be with you on the Titanic. 'Women and children first? Out of my way!' Although humans have obviously done some terrible things to other humans, it is generally to 'others'. Countries against countries, races against races, social classes against social classes. But within those groups there's a ton of cooperation and sacrifice. We just need to widen people's horizons. The rule of law developed in the UK because of a recognition of the collective benefits of all living by rules that benefit everyone. Part of the taxes you pay have gone to help violence victims to prosecute their assailants, and that's a good thing. The big thing to remember is the progress we've made. 200 years ago most English people thought black people were inferior beings. Women were the property of their husbands and could be raped at will. But as a nation we used our brains and realised that our attitudes were wrong. In the same way, we can progress as to bring an altruistic society (we have actualy made a lot of progress already). But it doesn't help having people like you going around saying we should all be selfish because that's the natural way.

Can we acknowledge that there is a middle ground between socialists wanting to nationalise everything and conservatives who look to help the rich /old at the expense of the poor /young at every turn? It's called social democracy- accepting markets as useful tools but recognising that there need to be strong protections to help the weakest in society?

Can't see anything about magic money trees in your definition of socialism either

I'm atheist but that's ********, Jesus didn't just go around doing miracles, he encouraged other people to share their wealth. Mark 10:21 And Jesus, looking at him, loved him, and said to him, “You lack one thing: go, sell all that you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” Luke 6:20-26* And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said: “Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God. “Blessed are you who are hungry now, for you shall be satisfied. “Blessed are you who weep now, for you shall laugh. “Blessed are you when people hate you and when they exclude you and revile you and spurn your name as evil, on account of the Son of Man! Rejoice in that day, and leap for joy, for behold, your reward is great in heaven; for so their fathers did to the prophets. “But woe to you who are rich, for you have received your consolation. ...

We would have spoken to his agent regularly and found out that he was willing to sign a new contract, so offered one. We will now be speaking to vic's agent regularly and in the unlikely event that he is willing to sign, we will offer one

Thanks, appreciated

There's just no way he's interested in signing, he'll want to keep his options open for next summer. No matter how much we all want to believe there is a solution, sometimes there isn't. The club isn't that incompetent that they wouldn't give him a longer contract if they could

Can someone please summarise the key points apart from Toby stuff? Or did he say nothing else of interest?

Given the variable bounce we've already seen on day one, this pitch will be tough to bat on in the fourth innings. Australia need to score big tomorrow and Friday to make the draw a possibility

They'll still get more than if they sold to us. AM get more money, we get more money, Spurs get the player

I like the idea of Les Reed flying out to Spain with a briefcase full of euros and turning up unannounced at AM HQ to break up Levy's meeting

**** knows mate

Seems like Madrid are point blank refusing to speak to us, in order that Spurs can get a deal done. They'll worry about the legal ramifications with us once they've got their £12m in the bag. Whatever they have to pay us, it will be worth it to double their transfer fee

I think they're talking about profit after salary costs. If a company is making millions in profit on top of that, they can afford to pay staff a living wage rather than spunking it all to shareholders

Sorry to side with the hipsters but while honolulu is ok, Kauai blows it out of the water. Hanalei Bay is an absolute paradise, the best place I've been to. George Clooney's film the Descendants is worth a watch for that reason

We tend to pay around £12m for players, but the problem is I'm not sure the club have grasped that strikers are more expensive than other positions. If we want a step up from Pelle / Long we need to splash £15m to £20m imo (or find a great bargain)

I very much doubt he will sign a new contract. I'm sure the club would have given him one if the willingness to sign was there. To be honest, him leaving next summer is probably the natural time for his career progression

Too black and white. Clubs can still get a relatively cheap deal while giving the player and agent fat wedges of cash

How many assists did he get last season?

That performance was about more than the goals, his link up play, flicks and running were excellent. That said, he doesn't appear able to do it consistently so I'd look elsewhere