Forester

Five games in August means the pressure will build very quickly if results are poor and you have to say that already for Ralph the Leeds game looks huge. While in reality everyone plays everyone twice, momentum is crucial and after a shocking end to the season (was it five points from twelve games?) I could easily see this becoming six points from 17 games which would just be incredible.

I would take Ings back for either season loan or half the money we got. But you would have to budget that he would start probably only 15 games. Even so he would get you five goals, and so you need two front line goal scorers who are going to get you 12 to 15 each in addition to Ings. The Minamino who played for Liverpool last season looked a big upgrade on the loan version we saw

I may be wrong, but unlike other positions I think it is possible to read more into a keeper in League One than an outfield player in terms of readiness for the Premier League. At least in some respects. He has been playing in a mid table side and therefore will have been exposed to plenty of goal bound attempts. Additionally there is much more (as we remember) of an aerial bombardment at that level. In that sense there are parts of a keeper’s game that are individualistic which I do think bear scrutiny. Where it is harder to assess I think is on the floor given weaker team mates, character and “commanding your defence” etc. It is very relevant though that he has already been capped ten times as full international.

If only to show that the Brentford debacle has been neither forgotten or forgiven: McCarthy KWP, Valery, Stephens, Lyanco, Perraud JWP, Romeu, Moi, Teller, Adams So eight changes

Three options who I believe would both wish to come and that we could easily make happen: Benitez Dyche Cooper (with or without promotion for Forest) Am sure there would be section of fan base who would oppose all three. Cases for: RB proven top flight manager in and beyond this country. Did good jobs at Liverpool, Chelsea (despite fan opposition) and Newcastle. Walked into a mess at Everton and was sacked prematurely not helped by many injuries. Point to prove SD did great job at Watford and Burnley, winning promotion twice and took Burnley to Europe. Would have a little bit more money to play with and is hungry. Could also get Cornet, Mee and Tarkowski with a bit of luck! SC only managed three seasons, took Swansea to play offs twice (which Potter didn’t manage to do in his one season) including final and took over Forest in the autumn when they were in drop zone. Looks a Premier League manager of the future Top of my shopping list is someone who can teach us to keep clean sheets or it’s an uphill battle. I could get happy with any of these three. Easy to forget that each of our top eight managers in Premier League (Strachan, Poch, Koeman and Puel) had all enjoyed success, as well as being fired, before coming here.

Members reposted from match thread… Truly awful performance with a clear lack of motivation, ability to defend and resilience once we went behind. The contrast of our efforts in the last third of the season versus others in that midfield “nothing to play for”pack is stark. Look at Brentford, Palace and Brighton in recent weeks. I have never called for Ralph to go, even after both 9-0 defeats, but he has had a near fully fit squad to choose from, which we were told is bigger than ever to cope with injuries, and yet we are looking at the second consecutive season of dive bombing and will almost certainly go backwards again in terms of points and position. This now after three and a half years is his squad, his players, and he is responsible. i didn’t join in the abuse he got today, as I want him to go with dignity at the end of the season, but I did boo the players off at the end of the game for the first time in years as they were utterly embarrassing today. God knows what the last two games are going to be like.

Truly awful performance with a clear lack of motivation, ability to defend and resilience once we went behind. The contrast of our efforts in the last third of the season versus others in that midfield “nothing to play for”pack is stark. Look at Brentford, Palace and Brighton in recent weeks. I have never called for Ralph to go, even after both 9-0 defeats, but he has had a near fully fit squad to choose from, which we were told is bigger than ever to cope with injuries, and yet we are looking at the second consecutive season of dive bombing and will almost certainly go backwards again in terms of points and position. This now after three and a half years is his squad, his players, and he is responsible. i didn’t join in the abuse he got today, as I want him to go with dignity at the end of the season, but I did boo the players off at the end of the game for the first time in years as they were utterly embarrassing today. God knows what the last two games are going to be like.

I think this is right. While not mathematically safe, one more point I am confident will be enough. Of all the scary scenarios, the ones I think are most likely are Everton and Burnley catching us. Making Leeds take eight points rather than seven would turn the dial for me, hence saying a draw at Brentford I am sure will do it. However huge wake up call for the club, and if we lose our last three games (which is quite likely ) a reminder that in three of the last five seasons we will have failed to exceed 40 points.

Finding this really difficult to call one way or another. Trying to be balanced, and conscious there are theoretically nine points to play for: Case for defence: - three and a half seasons under Ralph and we have avoided feeling seriously at risk of relegation (excluding the salvage half season when he arrived). Ask lots of clubs in the championship if they would swap places - when it’s good it’s very good. We go on good long runs of points and can compete with top teams when we do, and style of play when in this form is attractive to watch - genuinely good guy who has bonded with fans - he doesn’t throw toys out of pram with board and accepts financial constraints (up to now) Case for prosecution: - we are not improving, are unlikely to finish with either more points or higher in table than last two seasons - the supposed “bigger squad” has not helped the final third of the season - the Ying to the Yang of “attractive football” is that we struggle to keep clean sheets, which were the cornerstone of the four top eight finishes (check the goals conceded column), meaning we often have to score twice to avoid defeat - firing a manager for finishing eighth and taking us to a cup final en route without conceding a single goal a few years back shows how far the bar has shifted On balance I think I would like to see what Ralph could do with a much better budget , and hopefully the Dragon will give him this. And I would expect a better plan B which should not always involve just two central midfielders

Today was a hard reminder that if you aren’t on it in the Premier League, either concentration defending or passing game, you get beaten. Like Norwich away second half, this was a horror show and 2-1 flattered us

Then beat Liverpool in final with last minute own goal from Dick Van Dyck diving header in front of Saints fans…..

Remarkable turnaround and should be thought of in this position as a real talent

As a serial critic of Valery the right back, that is the third very strong centre back performance he has put in this season, with exception of one poor back pass today. Looked very good at Chelsea in League cup and home to Spurs too. if you suspend judgement based on prior performances and just look at pace, timing of interceptions and reading of the game he has looked a totally different player. Quite amazing, and I confess I would have sold him last summer.

Well that was an odd game. Always a good atmosphere at Molyneux, but my god does that side know every trick in the book to slow the game down. Felt it was a scrappy first half, we looked like a team who were playing their third game in a week. Looking forward to seeing the VAR tonight, the penalty felt like an absolute age before ref was sent to the screen. Think it was Tella who gave the ball away in a dangerous position that started the move. Then clear goalkeeping error from Forster, who to be fair has been good since getting back in the side. Stunning free kick from JWP, a couple of big headed chances missed by Salisu and Perraud. Can forgive the third goal as we were throwing everything forward to equalise. I thought Lyanco was excellent today, really growing into Premier League football, and Perraud again very good after Brentford display. Both are beginning to look very good signings after inconsistent starts to their time with us. Biggest disappointments for me were Broja and Tella, perhaps one game too many in a week.

Lots of very good performances last night but a rare three man central midfield formation was I think a first under Ralph, effectively playing without tens, and my god it looked good. The three absolutely dominated the middle of the pitch. Credit to Ralph as I think that is the fourth different formation we have seen so far this season, and that flexibility is making a big difference to our campaign.

Feels very early to say anything too positive, but a few things are clear to me: - Gao May have been a disappointment re funding, but at least he didn’t interfere with the management of the club and I feel current management team have done well overall. Pleased Semmens is staying (for now) - We were though incredibly reliant (more so than most) on player transfers given no net spend, and it feels like one bad summer could have done for us (it nearly did the year before Ralph) - FC Michy Land (spell check please) and Brentford have, pound for pound, been two of the most successful clubs in Europe in recent times. Feels too simple to call it a coincidence

Fresh legs needed and an eye on Newcastle game….. Forster KWP, Bednarek, Salisu, Perraud Romeu, JWP Armstrong (S), Smallbone, Adams, Armstrong (A)

A good day out, having been a bit of a “brave” decision to go in the end. Felt like about one in five fans stayed away, be interested to see he actually turnout figure. The covid pass checks were non existent/ineffective. I thought our passing game was strong yesterday, with lots of good patient build up balanced by the occasional, and well judged, hoof defensively when under pressure. I only recall one moment when we chose the wrong ball from deep and that was Bednarek who lost concentration first half and handed them the ball with a lazy cross field pass. I though Romeu, JWP, KWP and Broja were our best players. I don’t get the criticism of Forster, who I though got some good punches in from set pieces first half and his distribution was fine. Walcott didn’t really impact the game, but I would say he worked hard off the ball. I assume we will see Stuart in for Spurs. Having trooped out of that place many times being battered, very happy with three points and in fact four from two London trips. Delighted to hit 20 points one game ahead of minimum requirement too. Would bite your arm off for a point against Spurs who are flying under Conte.

A viewpoint from someone who has been loyal and supportive of Ralph here: I am now two games away from seriously considering we may need to make a change. The next two games are critical and we absolutely need to avoid poor results or we will be needing to beat Wet Spam away (thrashed there every season since Puel days) or a resurgent Spurs under Conte to be above the one point per game at the halfway mark. And as I have commented on other thread, this is an unusual season in that no one is cut adrift, Newcastle will spend big, Norwich are improving and Burnley are, well, Burnley and I imagine will find a way to grind out results. So I am not there yet, but the Board cannot let things continue. It is insane to play 4222 in every single game, particularly when the DMs are also encouraged to press. Earlier in the season I thought Ralph was genuinely being more flexible but we are back to where we were second half of last season. Everyone accepts that our squad is not a top eight set up, but greater flexibility tactically would without doubt bring us more points. And there isn’t a huge gap between us and Wolves in eight, just five points. Those five points could be picked up by effective match management. There has been much boasting of the squad being deeper this season. December and January traditionally are the months where squad rotation and covering injuries/suspensions become vital. So far this is not evident in results.

As a generally very loyal and understanding fan, this is beginning to push patience to the limit. A promising first 20 mins followed by the now familiar carving open of Saints’ defences. Second half score line could have been far worse in reality, and while the far end of the ground the last goal looked like a keeper error. As I have mentioned many times before, we are going nowhere other than the championship if we continue to ship an average of two goals per game which is the current trend. While attractive to watch while it lasts, and perhaps suitable for playing relegation rivals, our naivety in playing just two midfielders who both press high up leaves us so exposed away from home to strong teams. Tactical flexibility appeared early in the season, and it seemed we were capable of keeping clean sheets, but now we are back to where we were in the second half of last season just doing the same thing over and over again. This week is massive, with a minimum of three points needed out of next two games and hopefully four otherwise I fear we will be stranded below one point per match at the halfway point with big spenders Newcastle and ever resilient Burnley both fancying their chances of finishing above us.

Lewis Tino, Stephens, Lyanco, KWP JWP, Diallo Redmond, Moi, Brojer, Adams

I won’t resurrect the old arguments on Puel as we will be here forever but definitely would not include him in the Pellegrino category! I think we should give Ralph the season and see whether we feel we are moving in the right direction. Right now we are not in the danger zone and probably need four points from next four games to remain so. It’s not the time to rock the boat in what is a tight table this year.

Hugely frustrating and sounds as if McCarthy, who had actually been very good throughout, was unprofessional in not asking to come off with our third sub unused. I thought that was as good an attacking display in the first half as we have seen this season, but everyone around me said the same…”will we regret not being further ahead having dominated”! We just can’t kill teams off when we play well and while the specific circumstances today at the end were farcical, in general hanging on to 1-0 with so little momentum in the second half just invites these situations. On the plus side I though Salisu, Romeu and Redmond were excellent and Broja continues to improve. He is a real handful. Next week looks tough but that is what we have a squad for.

Forster KWP, Lyanco, Salisu, Perraud Romeu, JWP Redmond, Moi Adams, Tella

Long journey for an awful performance. For my part I don’t think it was the three at the back per se that was hardest to fathom, although if you are doing that against Liverpool front three you have to be either very deep with midfield picking them up or super high to get tight on them with wing backs tucking in. We did neither. For me the biggest crime was picking three pure forwards, meaning that we usually had just eight behind the ball rather than the ten we needed when out of possession. I personally would also have gone three at the back, but with two of Tella, Redmond or Moussa working with one of the three strikers (probably Adams). That would have given us pace on the counter, but feeling like 5, 4, 1 out of possession.