Frank's cousin

A note on the 'backers pulling out' from DP - with respect to the financial forecasts - I cant remember who said it, possibly TL, but there ws a very early quaote in which it was hinted that although the backers would be prepared to stem teh tide short term, they expected teh club to be self financing within a very short period of time.. Given our league position and the prospects of crowds beteen 13-15k next season, and with teh overeads and cost of sales not being vastly reduced without players sales which is teh classic vicious circle - poorer quality players, worse results less attendance, its not surprizing really. Any new owner has to be realistic, that they need to be prepared to risk substantial sums if they want to see a return eventually by seeing us return to the prem. So maybe the foolhardy attempt at getting the -10 points potentially overturned WAS necessary to satisfy the biggest acker who was simply not prepared to take the risk from taht starting position...??

NIneteen, we have to remember though that football fans generally tend to be obsessive passionate stubborn freaks ;-) We will all be demanding big spending the moment someone takes over and will be expecting great things ... and the moment we dont see it we will have the usual disillusi0onment that follows....unless this whole sorry episode has maybe taught us a few wise lessions; the club and its history are way more important than anyone in the boardroom or the success that we yearn for. Supporting a club IS in the blood and the very nature of what the game has become means that the highs and lows are so much further apart that this bizzare rollercoaster is becoming even more difficult to rold on to... but hey its one hell of a ride ;-)

To be fair to Fry, I think the biggets problem initially was that we had interest from well meaning, but perhaps unrealistic brokers, who felt that there MUST be backers willing to take a punt at the price ... Pinnacle played teh PR card well with getting MLT on board, but realistically seemed to have a rather fluid group of backers that in the end did not have the readies... The initial requirement for a deposit to gain exclusivity was in effect a put up or bugger off, but also a way of ensuring the club could pay satfff and players for another month, thus buying more time. Having made that request, Fry was probably as surprized as the Swiss that Pinnacle were able to find the deposit - and thus was duty bound to give them a fair hearing and the exclusivity. We also heard that they beat the Swiss by a matter of hours. I will probably get shot down for this, but it begs the question about who fronted teh 500k... did they get shafted by not doing sufficient homework on the solidity of the backers, did they really believe that it was the only way to guarrantee the club survived, for another month, or was it the only way to be sure of maintaining an interest in the club after the sale... ? If as we have been told teh Swiss were ready to pay the deposit, and that they seem from what we have heard the best deal for the, if the latter of reasons, it could be seen as bit of self interest ahead of wat was best long term? The mystery of the 500k is an interesting one. I know many rate Crouch for his donations or loans and I will admit that he has made a contribution that has undoubtedly benefited the club, but were they ever truely selfless as some would like to proclaim? He has also been touted as an astute businessman, yet this would be second time he seems to have been 'let down' because the funds were not guarranteed, but 'promised'. Fry is in a difficult position, because legally his role does not really involve thinking about whats best for the fans and club, but just the creditors who are going to lose out anyway - I suspect he has been given a bit more leaway than usual because of the bad PR that Barclays and Aviva would recieve on a national basis, if seen not to give a flying fig about the football club... the fact that he has stated he wants to try and ensure teh clubs future, may be PR platitudes but it perhaps indicates that Barclays and Aviva would ideally like the same thing, even if just from a PR perspective. Alps, before you respond and give me a good kicking about my dig at Crouch, PLEASE remember I dont hate him, not the way most hate Lowe, I just never felt he was as selfless and as right for the club as many obviously do. It does not make him bad person in my eyes, as its only human - I would probably act in exactly the same way - its human nature especially after losing 2 mil on his shares - its just that IMHO he seemed 'too good to be true' - spoke alot of nice things without much substance, an improvement I guess on Lowe who spoke a lot of crap without much substance... I will say again, the only reason why I defended Lowe to some degree was because of the way we managed finances in the prem... the avoiding of increasing borrowings to fund potential success - which many clubs were and are still doing - it simpy cant be sustained. The fact that successive managers wasted alot of what we did have is another matter, but for that 'prudence' was an important thing for our club without teh sugar daddy to underwrite any debt. For me Wilde and Crouch, in response to the desire for a new era, and anyway but Lowe's way, went too far in an effort to be popular first and pragmatic second... That has been my 'beef' with Wilde and Crouch... Hopefully This week will see a proper new dawn, aftr so many false ones and if the Swiss bid is as good as Fry is making out, then he will have done his job very well.

Well you wouldn't think it was that obvious from the obvious over excitment in this thread....

Just a note - not sure why we all get so excited by teh wealth of those taing us over really - it makes didly squat difference how rich someone is (well unless skint naturally) - what matters is HOW MUCH of that wealth is ear marked for potentially underwriting a club. We could have the richest owners in the world and still be expected to live within our means.

Dont you just wish that the bidders would just simply say who they are, rather than acting thropugh shell companies and wired three line whip consortia etc.. oh for opena nd transparent business for once...

Its also perhaps important to remember that when Martin Samual accuse the club (and Lowe) of treating him shabbily, Lowe sued and was successful in a court of law, which suggests that everything was managed firstly with teh legal compnents of employment law and to be fair, given that it was important for both parties to have 100% focus on what they were doing, the club on football and Dave on his defense it certainly also indicates it was teh right thing to do especially as Dave got full pay and benefits. Given the seriousness of the charges, this was handled as best it could really.

In a nut shell I would guess...

You feeling the love today Toady? Maybe its a Karma thing, if we all do something nice - or think nice thoughts about fellow saints - we will get teh takeover? ;-)

Does not matter in future whether seperate entities or not really - FL see the club as the club irrespective of who owns them - its teh entity with teh league status that is teh constant - if the FL deem that the club have gained an advantage by clearing debts as a result of new ownership they can impose further sanctions... thats what is not clear, will tehy, wont they and I can see why this might put purchasers off. The FL need to clarify the situation so that potential bidders know the score really - would help all clubs if these rules were better defined.

Rings a bell - and would be bloody typical... as my Brother became a Forest fan about that time - and 3 years later wins the title and Euopean glory - jammy get... I was still a bit young to know what was going on, just loved the day out and the red and white stripes looked cool 8-)

Favourite moments: Cardiff Bucharest MLTs last minute winner against the Gunners 4-3 last gasp winner against norwich in the relegation season Favourite memory November 1975 - mY 6th Birthday (yes I will be 40 this year) - my dad (an Essex born West Ham fan) was stationed in Andover with the RE. Took me and my brother to the Dell as Birthday treat - cant remember who we played (I could look it up in ITN, but FF probably knows in his head who we played at home in November '75 second half of the month ;-)) - cant even remember if we won, but I can remember the first experience of that atmosphere and I was hooked on the red and white..... and it just got better as the next summer (the scorching one of '76) I was glued to the box one sunny afternoon in May - 90 mins later I was in teh garden, - pair of blue shorts and a yellow T shirt as Stokes, knocking the ball past my hapless dad in in goal... ;-)

four questions? 1. 2+2 =? 2. 8/2=? 3. 2 x 2=? 4. 4 x 1 =? daft I know but think every single morsel of possible saints discussion and analysis has occured - we need something REAL to happen, dont we?

Uhm...it was reasonably clear in the Court transcripts when Lowe was sueing Fat Sam... I dobt any of us would know where to satrt if say the police arested one of your employees on allegations of child abuse...

Maybe he's the new KITT man? I'l get my coat

Must be amateur tyre kickers then... ;-)

Humour aside, I think if I was feeling positive today, your statement might just indicate there was actually a serious party that might just might be carrying out totally professional negotiations??? (Positive day surely?)

I think many share your sentiments ;-)

Uhm, we wont be allowe dto start the season if we cant guarrantee we can fulfill the fixtures surely?

Because its suggest its money and they want their bid to remain credible... The loss of a backer late in the day for whatever reason, is not something they should get stick for HAD they been more transparent during the process - we could have sympathised - as these things are common place in business - but by being so confident, the '100s of millions' story etc - it won over fans, but also set them up for a greater fall if it went wrong

Thats what dont understand - I am not going to slag them off, because I simply dont know the truth, but they seem to have changed their story once or twice too often. I think the secrecy behind the money men, was precisley because it was a fluid situation - backers in and out as new info came to light during due diligence - THAT IS PERFECTLY NORMAL and I simply could not see why they were so hush hush about it - transparency leads to credibilty and also less of a kicking if something goes pear shaped. We woudl alwyas be dissapointed and think they had wasted 3 weeks of exclusivity, but if Fry based his decsions on who was originally involved and then 1 or 2 of these pulled out, at least we could understand that it was not all down to TL and MLT etc. BUt this postruring and delaying tactics re the -10 points (when its known that the FL ask all clubsd to waive the right of appeal to avoid chaos at seasons end when final postions could not be known if someone is still in the courts) just seemed to erode any credibilty or confidence in the bid. I dont agree with the slagging of TL or pinnacle because I am sure they were serious, but they should have been realistic and not inflated our hopes with stories of '100s of millions' when this was not guarranteed. I am also starting to believe that given MLT only came in later as a figurehead, this was really just a clever stunt to gain favour for their bid with fans.... Perhaps wwhat is also a little worrying IMHOP is that now there ios the rumour of LM potentially being lined up - LM and Crouch, have we not been there before?

I think thats fair enough, which is probably does better with academy kids than first team and more experienced pros. The younger kids are more flexible and can be moulded easier to suit a system, whereas the older pros are pretty much stuk in their ways? Right now though we dont exactly have to much choice...

probably toconfirm Fry is not beginnning a wind up operation today... ;-(

My concern with the FL is that they ahve still not ctagorically stated that there will nbe no further sporting sanctions after a takeover...because it will depend on the nature of the deal I guess, but that could be an issue for any of the parties even those with real money....

No takeover today please...got an important proposal document to write, been in the office since 6.45 and this is just too darn distracting - 8.30 now, only an hour to go until they bring round the bacon rolls - or could go to the canteen for a full on FRY up.... If it happens today (FRYday), I will eat my telephone..