VectisSaint

Have said in several threads that the issue is not the 10 point penalty, there is something else involved. Today I found this on the Guardian web site which perhaps sheds some more light on the matter, haven't seen this elsewhere, though I could have missed it amongst all the crap that is being written: "...[Pinnacle's] solicitors unhappy over two legal aspects of the negotiations with creditors. Principal among the concerns is that a notice of withdrawal, issued by the Football League when the club was deemed to be in insolvency proceedings, be withdrawn to ensure that Southampton can compete as a league club next term. "There are a number of very small issues that remain, the principal one of which is the Football League situation," said the joint-administrator, Mark Fry. "They have agreed to have an emergency meeting on Monday, but until any bidder can be satisfied about membership of the League they won't complete a purchase of the club." So the problem appears to be that one or more of our creditors are causing a problem, because they are concerned that FL may not let us play ball next season. Presumably Barclays are playing hard ball and want guarantees before agreeing to the deal with Pinnacle. So until Pinnacle get agreement with the FL about our membership of the League, the deal is blocked. That would explain why Pinnacle were not aware of a situation until the last minute. It is clearly Barclays or possibly one of the other creditors that has thrown the spanner in the works. http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/jun/19/southampton-takeover-pinnacle-consortium

I very much doubt the issue is the 10 points. If it was I don't think there would be an issue, Pinnacle would take the hit. Making up 10 points should not be a problem, Keegan amassed 101 points with Fulham, take 10 off that and 91 would still probably see us promoted. There is more to this that the simplistic view of appealing the 10 point penalty. In any case any appeal is also doomed to failure.

If only people could learn that it is the Football League and not the Football Association, then at least one good thing would have come out of this sorry mess.

No of course not. The man (and Wilde) is the reason we are in the **** in the first place. If he had been even half intelligent he would actually have ensure we went into administration a little earlier then we would not have a 10 point penalty this coming season at all. the guy is a *****, and no thanks should be going his way.

You want to bet. Abusive emails wil galvanise the FL view, especially if the FL is not the problem, as is possibly the case. By the way the murderers and dictators are more associated with the FA Premier League which you seem to wish to return to rather than the mere amateurs we are currently dealing with. There are far more amateurs in the FA, the FL was always the professional side of the game at least until 1992, thats why they have a grudge against teams that kicked them in the teeth in 1992, which of course includes Saints

You completely miss the point. You can sue to your hearts and wallets content. You will never win. As a Members Club they are a law unto themselves, precedents have been set several times when this has been attempted, the Law always finds in favour of the sporting body (members club). Always. I agree with you about Mawhinney, but its not about him, he has already made a fool of himself, but that won't change anything. I would like to see his expenses claims, sadly as he stood down as an MP in 2005 they are not published, redacted or otherwise.

Rupert Lowe

It may not be morally correct, but please people try to understand the FL is a Members Club, and they can organise themselves however they see fit. It is not controlled by any legalities (unless their rules require members to act illegally). It is no different to when we were in the Premier League and Lowe was on the Board, or for that matter Wiseman previously.

Well it certainly won't be A. In case it has escaped your notice we are currently not members of the FL, our new owners have applied for membership. No it will be a meeting including the professional administrators of the FL (possibly not Mawhinney who is a figurehead) plus the representatives of as many of the FL member clubs, possibly all 71 of them, looking at whether to allow our membership and whether any further punishment is warranted. Don't believe for 1 minute that the idea of rescinding the 10 point penalty will even be discussed.

There are some short-sighted (but maybe well meaning) idiots around, who can potentially do harm to the deal because they don't necessarily know what they are talking about. A protest today against the FL, when we don't even know for sure that the FL are the (only) problem. Beggars belief, I wonder if these are the same people who were planning to protest against the FA or to go to the HQ of the FL in London. And to those that think that the FL don't care aout Southampton. You are probably right. Don't forget we are one of the newest members of the Football League, and were one of the 20 founding members of the FA Premier League, who effectively consigned the FL to be a second-class organisation for the remainder of their existence having previously been the organisers of the top football competitioin in the world for over 100 years. Sour grapes, you bet.

Conclusion jumping again. How about this as an alternative, the even more evil Rupert Lowe or Wilde has some legal hold on some of the assets. No evidence of this, but is actually just as likely as the FL scenario. The FL issue has been known about for weeks, there is precedent for this, it is not the issue in my mind. Perhaps Lowe/Wilde are actually the legal owners of the FL License (the Golden Share) and require recompense before agreeing to hand it over. Complete speculation and probably utter tosh, but as much basis in fact as what is being said about the FL.

As I suspect, and a few others are beginning to do so, however unplatable it may seem, the FL are not necessarily the (only) bad guys here, the 10 points deduction and any appeal are probably not the blocking issue. The appeal situation is not new (there are previous examples, Leeds for instance) and this is not a legal issue. Something else is in play here. I still hope and (probably expect) that it will all work out, but to all those getting in a lather about the FL calm down, that MAY not be the problem.

A campaign against the FL when we don't even know any facts. Brilliant. We don't know for sure that the appeal against the 10 points is even an issue, we hope it is because the alternative scenario which no-one wants to contemplate is that Pinnacle have either been found wanting or have been completely naive. I don't believe for one minute that the only blocking issue is the right of appeal against the 10 point deduction, if it was an Pinnacle were confident they would take the 10 point deduction on the chin and plan to get promotion anyway, 10 points is not that much. No there is more to this than meets the eye.

I'm with you basically, this is not about the 10 point deduction. If it is then Pinnacle are complete knobs (and I don't think they are). There is something more, maybe its additional point deductions, maybe its something else. The 10 point deduction and the fact that it was not appealable was there all along, no there is something else occurring here. If it were about the 10 points then logic would say bugger it, we'll start with -10 and still walk this league (especially if there is decent money to invest)

Well Pinnacle are extremely naive then (I don't actually believe this is the case by the way, there is something more going on here). If it was they only needed to have looked back at what happened to Leeds to have realised that this would be the case, and so why leave it until the last minute. All of this crap about legal requirements is missing the point. This is not a criminal law case, or even a commercial law case. These are the rules of a members only club. The members only club can make whatever rules they like as long as they are agreed by the members, and do not require members to act illegally. In this case the FL have every right (however unfair it may seem) to impose rules and demand agreement to those rules before admitting someone (or Saints in this case) as a member. At this moment in time Saints do not have a leg to stand on and no amount of gnashing of teeth will change this fact.

to Preston? I know lots of Londoners go to Old Trafford regularly, but Preston is even further away

Sorry Whitey but this is the whole point. The Football League is a Members Club. They can impose whatever rules they like, and there is nothing you can do about it. You either abide by their rules or you are not a member, simples. If and its a big if, the 10 point deduction is the sticking point then I have to admit that I think Pinnacle have been naive at best. The penalty will not be overturned, unless the FL want it to be. Pinnacle should forget it, get on with the takeover and just get round it by ensuring we win enough games to get promotion. My suspicion is that there is more to this though than the 10 point deduction. I certainly hope so.

The Football League's headquarters are in Preston, so going to London would be completely pointless.

No it didn't, we were in the FA Premier League at the time, nothing to do with the Football League.

Even though the source is probably directly involved and an employee of Sky?

If true we are ****ed, because any other takeover would face the same problem. All Fry can do now is get as much as he can for the assets and liquidate the plc/FC. This could be the end of the line folks.

Not sure I agree with all of that, but I do agree with the sentiment. I think this could all go seriously wrong, and I'm not sure I would lasy the blame only at the door of the FL. It seems to me a dereliction of duty by Fry and Pinnacle not to have had negotiations about this with the FL before today. They must have known that they needed FL approval, so why wait until the last minute? Hopefully my natural pessimism is all it is and all will be well come Monday.

or in the case of buying a football stadium more likely renegotiate the terms with the mortgage company and simply take over the payments.

Yes, you are misisng the fact that the debts that have to be paid are nothing like 30mil. It is not necessary to pay off the mortgage, only for it to be renegotiated, Aviya make more money by keeping the mortgage. The primary debt is the 4.5mill overdraft, there may be others but that is the bottom line. Of course if Pinnacle were to pay off the mortgage that would be grand, but I doubt that is an issue at this point in time.

Jerk