Micky

Personally I don't think that anything you have written disproves any of my theorys at all. We could debate all night long - but it is patently obvious that we are poles apart in terms of opinion. Perhaps instead of reading some of the ghost written Biographys, you might try some coaching manuals instead and see what drills are taught and why. I maintain though that, if you go back to your original post, there is no way that you can claim that the teams coaching set up is poor and then point to one of the players good form as proof of that. Total contradiction of arguments in the same sentence.

Agreed - but no matter how well KD is playing at present - to put him in that company is somewhat flattering. I doubt that Kelvin himself would expect to be spoken about as such. Yes touted for England, yes playing well, but pure talent or coached skill - then I think it is more likely down to the latter.

I hate to say it, and I'm not doing so just to be argumentative - all of those situations that you say cannot be coached - errrr can, and are. Keepers spend hours of coaching on one on ones, angles, positioning and reflex saves as well as normal goalkeeping skills. How many times do you see a keep act as sweeper - because he has been coached to take a good starting position - even when the ball is not even in his half of the field. How many times do you see goalkeepers being coached with multi-ball practices - to build up their reflexes and awareness of second ball situations. Why are keepers the only players that will make extra 'markers' on the field - because they have been coached to, in order to get thier angles and distances right. Kelvin Davis is a product of the same coaching set up that you say is not good enough, therefore surely the coaching set up should be given the praise for his form - not being doubted.

Nice points - well researched - but the bottom line remains that all of those professional sportsmen that you have cited were all coached...!! They all benefitted from top class coaching facilities. I grant you that there are the odd players who will look after and pace themselves during coaching sessions a la Chris Kirkland, however that is not the norm, and due partly to fear of injury. But the fact remains whether they enjoyed training or not - they are / were all coached. Coaching is especially important for young players (which we have a few of), some of the older pro's probably do not put as much emphasis on training as those youngsters - but they are all coached. Your original post infers that our coaching set up leaves a lot to be desired and is being bailed out by KD - total and utter bollux. KD is doing what he is trained (coached) to do - no more no less. Apologies that I have not researched my reply with lots of 'player quotes', but I think you'll find that come Monday morning there are a whole lot more professional sportsmen at work on the coaching field than laying in bed knowing that they don't need to put the effort in.

Didn't bother reading past your opening gambit - if you believe that then you know naff all about football. Why not go tell KD to not bother turning up for training - no point - he can just cuff it with pure instict. Talk about legendary coaching methods....!!!!

Utter bollux - KD is coached in order to make those saves - therefore I would say that our coaching system appears to working very well. It appears to me now that some here are prepared to use players who are playing well to try to make negative points - what on earth is going on...!!!!

Whilst I would normally agree with that, our away form would indicate that we do have the balls to see games through. If our home form even mirrored our away form we would be 7 points better off right now - that would put us comfortably mid table. You have to win at home and pick up away wins to survive in this league - we have done ok away, and personally I think that fixing our home form is probably easier than trying to fix the away form.

You paint a pretty bleak picture - makes the now "notoriously famous Lapland 'Theme'park" sound positively wonderful - perhaps you'd like to go spend your money there instead, ohhhh... damn, too late there....

If I'm honest, two points lost I think, but I guess a draw is better than nothing.... Why is our home form so abysmal....????

Need the final whistle.....

Sounds like the crowd are trying to lift saints though,,,

Damn... shyte...

Phew...!

Commentators Kiss of Death - "Wednesday have never won here...."

Need the second though - would be nice to get a bit of daylight between us...

Must be playing pretty well - even the Wednesday reporters are saying we look good...!!!

Not too sure why anybody hankering after Keanes services should be branded a wally to be honest. I'm pretty sure that the guy who suggested Sunderland go for him (untested) whilst they were lanquishing lower than we currently are in the championship was not branded as such. Seen more as a master stroke by most I would think. That said, I wonder how many fans would forgive him the goading that he gave out on our last premiership day, I wonder.

The problem remains, what is good investment? We refused the deal that Coventry City eventually accepted, and whilst I know nothing about the details, I am led to believe that they had little option in accepting the 'so called' investment. But where has it actually got them - I see little signs of them actually benefitting in any spectacular way. Much was made of the investment at QPR - again - not really setting the world alight right now are they? My point is that the level of investment required to guarantee an 'instant fix' (promotion back to the Premiership) would be very, very high. Given that the investor then becomes responsible for our already outstanding debt, you begin to see that it is unlikely that the investor will make any gain on their outlay for a quite considerable period of time. Further risk is added because there is no real guarantee that promotion would be achieved. Even if it was, I go back to my original point of Premiership wages and running costs - they are exorborant compared with the CCC, where we are currently barely keeping our heads above the water. Yes investment would be welcomed - but it wouldn't necessarily fix the problem. Promotion would be welcome, again it could bring more woes than benefit. The club needs to be run within it's means, any investor needs to be in it for the long haul, and perhaps expect not to have a return on thier dividend for some considerable time. Failing that it's back to the Sugar Daddy with pockets so deep you could drill for oil in them...!

Sorry but the argument doesn't stack up for me. Really cannot see this being an issue for any potential buyers. It's hardly as though the players that are likely to be sold are in the 'Theo' mold. I could see a manager perhaps not wanting him to be cup tied, however whilst our current youngsters are promising - there are no diamonds in there. If they are wanted by other clubs - I doubt very much that that clubs manager is worried that they will not be available for FA cup games.

Sorry to answer a question with a question, but the first thing that we should try to establish is what do people actually want. An Investor or a Sugar Daddy? The former will generally be looking to make money from their 'investment' and currently we, and a whole host of clubs are a long, long way from being a viable money making aquisistion. The later are very hard to find - there are not too many 'Roman Abramovich's' in this world, and when they do appear, then they will generally make a beeline for the 'more fashoinable' acquisistions (a la Manchester City). As for an investor getting us into the Premiership - that's all well and good, but it does not automatically end our funding problems. Premiership status requires the requisite quality of player, which in turn demands very high wages (some clubs spend in excess of 80 percent of turnover on wages alone). Full houses at SMS would not necessarily ease the financial pressure, look at the capacity of the big clubs now, most revenue at Prem level is generated outside of the grounds. Therefore, even with investment, and with Premiership Status we would not necessarily be financially sound. Yes, I agree - life would be a little better, but investment / sugar daddies and the premiership are not the 'be all & end all' of football and would probably not solve all of our current problems.

Shows how much I know about football - FA....!!!! Great result, well done boys... why oh why are we so inconsistent....?? I'm off to digest large lumps of humble pie... have a good evening all...!!!

Tend to agree - this current crop of players probably wouldn't be suited to a complete 360 degree turn and change of style. But I wonder - at the end of the day (season) will it transpire that this total football was a mistake and perhaps a more direct approach might have bore more success. Time will tell I guess.

Some interesting points raised in the thread - I like many have only seen the televised games and frankly am underwhelmed by what I have witnessed. Sure there have been times when we knocked it around pretty well, but apart from the Lallanna goal at QPR (which at the end of the day counted for nothing) I have seen little end product from this so called total 'football'. I have said it before on here - at this level, most teams will allow you to play pretty stuff in front of them - they'll love it, they don't have to defend FA. We rarely appear to get behind teams and make them defend - it all just peters out to nothing. We are totally ineffective at finishing from range (come back Stern) and so pretty damn easy to defend against. As for defensively - well from what I've seen from highlights and live games - pretty farcicle, a little comedic, men with guide dogs would probably be more adept in most situations. All of that said - don't get me wrong, I'm not giving up on the lads (hoping for another 5 - 6 Preston like performances and results...!). But, our style of football appears to me to be pretty much ineffective, this time last season many were saying that they wouldn't want the likes of Billy Davis here because of 'his' (Derbys) style of football - I wonder whether many would now change their minds and settle for 'effective' football over 'pretty' (and lets be honest - ineffective) football?

Peter Shilton for me - but surely Casey Keller and Chris Woods must give him a run for his money - or are loanees banned from this poll...!!!

Saints - not a sausage...! V Wolves - double figures...? Dreading 4.50 tomorrow afternoon...!!!