moonraker

It not just Les it all of them, they have not got a clue, why they keep on signing key players on long term contracts is beyond me what a waste of our money.

Wrong again I believe the austerity measures are in general justifiable, you might argue on the timetable but the old adage you reap what you sow fits for me. Comparing Greece and Ireland does you know favours, apart from a financial crises these countries have very little in common, Eire's inherent culture and work ethic was always likely to see it through, just like the British resilience will in the long term make Brexit work, just wish we could of got on with the day job instead of this unnecessary Right Wing inflicted distraction. t

No it is still available got some in a pound shop a few weeks ago! For QI facts devotees Plasticine was invented in my home city of Bath and the HARBUTTS factory was in its day the sole manufacturer of Plasticine, sadly it is now manufactured in Thailand, note no EU grants were involved in the offshoring of an iconic British product!!!!

It was great, we had a new packet of plastacine and I got the red strips.

Back from the day centre, how was the Bingo?

Bit pedantic but only 38% are for leave 35% are for remains and the rest dont give a toss.

Agree, the Mediterranean countries have a fundamentally different attitude to their duties and responsibilities as citizens. They are masters at waving the flag and demonstrating their patriotism, but when it comes to paying their taxes and contributing for the greater good they all become very shy. Their governments and politicians are incapable of enforcing their own laws. While I am in favour of the EU it is these cultural and political divides that cause such resentment amongst the electorates of the Northern European states where paying ones taxes is accepted and adhered to by the vast majority. The idea of a parallel currency system is interesting but on the face of seems impracticable. The Euro was founded on deceits and falsifications to which the Commission and Politicians turned a blind eye, indeed encouraged, to ensure their vision of an EU wide currency could be delivered, it is by far the greatest error and deceit ever perpetrated by the EU.

The Irish economy is now amongst the strongest in the EU with high growth and record low unemployment. What is termed bailout was in reality investment, an investemnt in a key trading partner. The back door reffered to was via UK banks to their Irish subsidies. Banking is a global business and UK banks are major players and earn the UK a fortune despite the banking crises, I dont hear many complaints about the same back door bailout for an Australian Bank by the UK Banks! What would you have done differently and how would this have benefitted the UK economy?

Interesting to note that it appears support for anti-EU parties across the EU is falling as citizens of the other 27 see the chaos in the UK by a Brexit vote.

Where di 2 million poles come from there are 750k in the UK.

So another Tory does a runner when faced with reality, and this is the party of Governemnt that is charged with the most important series of negotaitions in our peace time history. Suck it up leavers!!!!!

What a load of baloney! What PR does is prevent extremism and encourage collaboration and consensus, something desperately needed in our modern world. Our current system results in a government, not elected by or representative of the majority, but one that represents the largest minority, and who said the EU was undemocratic!

The PR referendum was a stitch up by the 2 largest parties, FPTP is out of date, the UK is not a 2 party democracy and denying parties fair representation based on the proportion of the vote they receive is undemocratic, surely one who continually tells us that the EU is undemocratic can acknowledge that. Oh wait perhaps not because you are not actually interested in true democracy as your continual belittling of any thing that does not come from the right wing of the Tory party demonstrates. The party of robbers or brigands has never been more appropriate to the Tory party than it is today. I am not and never have been a member of any political party, I am a UK voter, and I am fed up of our political parties failure to represent the vast majority of my fellow voters and having to listen to the verbiage spouted by those who blindly follow them.

Thats what you get when a one dimensional argument succeeds.

This sounds like a Skate talking about their fan owned club, they to are economically illiterate, they to believe their history is sufficient to see them through, they to think they have got their club(country) back, they to are in denial, they to blame everyone else . Carry on thinking nothing has changed and while your doing that the rest of the world will get on with business as usual and we will become less and less important and loose influence. It wont happen today or tomorrow but one day you will wake up and think what the f**k happened.

Another piece of evidence that supports my point that you don't reckon much correctly. Do you still reckon everything is alright with the economy?

In the general election there were nearly 1.5m more votes for solid remain parties (not Labor or Tories) than for UKIP. If we accept that a proportion of Tories and Labor votes switch to UKIP in an in out general election it is very likely we would have a remain coalition as neither of these two would have a majority, and there is no chance of UKIP gaining anywhere near enough seats to be the largest party at best 20 -30. Labor will campaign for remain, what the Tories do is any ones guess but both main parties have real problems. With luck one good outcome of the referendum will be a long overdue realignment of party politics and the breaking of the out of date class based two party system.

No it wasn't you said 'Crabb or fox I reckon'.

This is just more project fear only last week Batman assured us everything was alright, he also said Fox or Crabb would win the Tory Leadership contest, so perhaps it isn't quite so ITK as he likes to think!!!! Suck it up leavers.

Do you actually read, there is legal opinion that there may be a case for challenging the reasons for the referendum https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/30/politics-brexit-unlawful-eu-uk. I am sure you will arbitrarily dismiss this as it is Guardian Article. Additionally Article 50 needs an act of Parliament as it is not in the gift of the executive power of the PM. If the current house votes it might well vote down the referendum, alternatively the new PM decides to go to the country on a manifesto promise to enact Article 50 this would be tantamount to a second referendum and therefore if the winning party or a winning coalition of parties had campaigned against enactment of article 50 the referendum result would be set aside. Leavers may not like it but this is UK law and we all know how much you leavers believe that UK law is far superior to any one else’s law and therefore you will all accept it as a demonstration of our national sovereignty.

If UKIP secured 17.5 m votes at a General Election then I would accept leaving without a murmur, the fact is they wont. Wes cited the European Elections as evidence of their electoral success when in reality what they did was get their vote out, 73% of voters in the EU elections did not support UKIP.

If there is one thing worse than sore losers its arrogant, bad-mannered winners. Try debating for once instead of crowing.

I am not wriggling I am just stating the reality of where we are, what in my post is incorrect. You are right on one thing UKIP won the Euro Elections, tough 27% is hardly a substantial majority , with roughly the same number of votes they polled in the General Election, EU elections are just that, EU Elections, they confer no mandate for domestic policy, and therefore I contend they are immaterial. For a party focused on leaving the EU their only electoral success was in elections for that self same institution they wish to leave, wow! You are wrong Parliament is not elected to carry out the wishes of the people it is elected to deliver the manifesto and policies of the majority party as expressed in the Queens (Sovereigns) speech. I know all this is a bit complicated for you but wining a referendum does not ensure anything. The most telling thing in your post and the key reason I am so annoyed with the whole referendum is that it was as you have said, and therefore I assume believe, a sop to UKIP, designed to quell internal Tory unrest. There is already a body of legal argument that if it can be proven that this is the cases then the whole referendum was illegal. I am sure that as Brexiters are so keen on abiding by UK Law they will fully support an investigation into these worrying claims.

Camerons resignation means his pre referndum statement is null and void. Its is not about sore losing, it is about continuing to campign for what we believe in. If remain had won would UKIP have folded and gone away, would Farage have said I tried but the Bristish people dont want to leave? Indeed would all Brexisters, kippers or otherwise, have just faded away quietly?

Lets put to bed once and for all the claim that the majority of the electorate voted to leave, they did not, circa 39% voted to leave and 37% to remain, 26% either could not make their minds up or don't care. Leave have harped on and on about democracy and the lack of it in the EU and now expect a whole nation to leap into the dark on a minority vote. There is no plan, chaotic political leadership and no general election manifesto mandate (UKIP the only party who campaigned for leave got 12.6% of the votes cast in the GE so no mandate there). Brexiters childish retort of 'you lost get over it' sums up the mentality of many brexiters and their lack of understanding of the democratic and political process enshrined in our sovereign laws. The referendum result must be taken seriously and it may well lead to the UK leaving the EU, but that is not certain. Brexit trumpeted sovereignty in their campaign and that sovereignty resides in the Houses of Parliament not the electorate, this is the basis of the UK democratic process that predates the EU by hundreds of years. The irony being that because we are still a Sovereign State, free to enact its own laws without EU approval the referendum can legally be set aside. The veiled threats as expressed by some posters that it will get nasty if we don’t leave exemplifies much that was unacceptable in the leave campaign. Leaving the EU is Parliaments decision and if they do decide to set aside the referendum, ‘get over it’, that’s British Sovereignty in action, its how the British constitutions works and it is why many are campaigning for a General Election, once the party leadership fiascos are resolved.