SaintRobbie

Strange times indeed, which require even stranger - but realistic - appraoches. Nick fails to get this as well. I fully admire his attempt to create optimism and support this farce until the end in order to give Wotte a chance etc etc etc. But, there is a reality pill that overrides this admirable ideal. That is: 1. Fans have lost it with Lowe and Wilde. They WILL NOT support them any longer unless results change - they wont, we're going down... to League 2, not 1 but 2 in as many seasons. 2. Lowe is refusing to move on and will not replace his failing manager AND PARTNER IN CRIME ( - remember it was Wotte/SCW et al 2 years ago who were feeding sweety mice into Lowe's head that youth could work before GB was appointed). 3. Unless Lowe goes, Wotte cant go, team will not improve, fans will not support. REALISM. 4. You thus need to reverse engineer the support which usually runs bottom and upwards to remove the problem top down to AT LEAST get support back and have a fighting chance of staying up... which is evaporating rapidly. Finally, there IS one thing worth watching for in Wotte's rhetoric. When Wotte admits defeat, which may happen sooner than we expect, and that he cannot save the team from relegation... watch out. He will be talking on behalf of the chairman who is preparing for administration AND a possible consolidation of his own power base. Watch. Top down change is the only realistic and constructive way fans can now support this club. Supporting the team on the pitch is admirable but sadly - very very sadly, and it makes me feel sick to type this - a waste of time for the good of this Club. Wotte is going to take us down, fluke win or two not withstanding, he is going to take us down.

Good point - different circumstances. When Harry was saying that we were generally agreeing with him... why? Another Lowe policy of buying mediocre. It sent us down let alone Saggy chops lack of enthusiasm for a lost cause. I'm with LG3C, he should shut up. Reality is no one believes him or has confidence in him. However, I think he's too vane to shut up. If he kept his mouth shut and delivered on the pitch we'd soon change our tune and apologise. He won't and can't. The spiral thus continues.

I will hold you to that Nick... glad you caveated it with 'I think..' to demonstrate that you're actually not entirely convinced. Anyway... I think your description is wrong. It is not a bunch of comical 5th Columnists at the moment... it is an Army of supporters. I think what we're seeing is more akin to a military coup with the support of the general population, not a bunch of lonely deserters who were generally ridiculed and ignored. Sorry but the tables are turned and as Wotte continues to fail and send us down the army will get increasingly more grumpy towards him and his fuhrer.

What about the Referendum Party? They had a good candidate in the Cotswold's I seem to recall.

Sagga. He can do this if the players behind him are disciplined and organised quickly to provide him the service... that requires a new manager.... that requires a new chairman.

I fully agree - we need some fight alright. The fight to remove Lowe and Wotte and then the battle to stay in this league. At least we'd have a run in worth supporting if we changed the leadership. The reality is it won't happen otherwise. New leaders required who can channel the anger in Lowe and Wotte's failure into supporting the fight to stay in this league. That is the only realistic way of getting the fans back when they're needed most.

LOL. That sums this up perfectly. No further comment necessary. Wotte is clearly upside down.

I think that's what most Clubs do. I would agree with that. Lowe's gamble has also had another spin off that most people have ignored. It has destroyed our youth set up rather than enhancing it. The reason your idea works is that it means that youth are integrated gradually into a mans game in a mans league. This = success. Success = youngsters saying 'I want to go to Southampton as they're a Premier League outfit'. Lowe's failure, turning Southampton FC into a League 1/2 side, has actually turned the jewel in his eye into a failure too. I didnt see the youth team in the youth FA Cup this year or doing as well as previous years. The reason... even our youth set up is starting to die.

I disagree. The vast majority of the fans are united against Lowe and Wilde. Of that I have absolutely no doubt. I havent seen this messageboard so united in the key issue over the support of the strategic leadership of this club for years. The last time Lowe led us down did not see the fans as united as this time. So I fundamentally disagree with that. Problem is - toothless fan leadership from those who have been seduced by the Wilde's and Club over the years. Shame this unity isnt being exploited. Mr X may be right... BUT I HATE THIS THREAD. I HATE IT THAT A SPORTS CLUB OF SUCH HISTORY THAT HAS MEANT SO MUCH TO GENERATIONS OF PEOPLE IN SOUTHAMPTON IS BEING ALLOWED TO DIE - ROLLING OVER AND ACCEPTING DEFEAT IS NOT AN OPTION FOR AN ELITE SPORTS CLUB. We can stay up. We just need a chairman and manager who can induce confidence and FIGHT. We need certain fans to call for Lowe's head NOW and stop rolling over and sucking up for their privileges within the club. We need fans to protest harder than before. We CAN stay up. But, not under the current toothless, clueless and unsupported leadership.

There is a reason why Lowe WILL put the prices up. It is called playing on loyalty. There are many diehard ST holders who are the life blood of the club, they will pay whatever it takes to be a supporter through thick and thin. They will carry the can of the many many ST holders who will join ST holders like me in failing to renew whilst Lowe is at the Club. Result? The ones who dont deserve to pay more - their sentiment of true support alone is admirable - will be exploited. Simple. So the answer is. Do not renew. The best fans are being used. Ironic really. But, it is simply exploitation of the willing.

It just sums up how truly appalling Lowe's strategy of marginalising the senior players in the hope they'd want to leave cheaply. All we have as a result are marginalised players we desperately need who - even if they do play - are unlikely to give 100% for a cause that badly needs 110% from all its players right now. I know I am a huge critic of Lowe.... but his policy of marginalisation has also FAILED. They're still here Rupert, but are further ripping the club apart by telling the world how badly treated they've been, turning off potential loanees from coming here, turning off investment, turning off fans, turning off hope. Rupert Lowe. Your decision to marginalise. Your decision to rip apart our team. Even this tactic has FAILED... and failed badly as its having other repercussions. Mary Corbett was right... there are people who want to come in and invest in this club - I am sure of that - but not whilst this criminally negligent fool is with this Club. GO RUPERT. I THINK THE FANS WILL BE LOOKING FOR REVENGE SOON... LET ALONE THE RHETORIC OF HATRED THATS CONTINUALLY HEADING YOUR WAY. YOU'VE FAILED YOUR SHAREHOLDERS, FAILED YOUR FAMILY, FAILED YOUR EMPLOYEES, FAILED YOUR TEAM, FAILED YOUR SUPPORTERS. LEAVE THIS CLUB WHILE YOU STILL CAN... I think people are about to start looking for legal action against you personally.

What boarding schools? Those Japanese people are bloody clever you know!

I would still like a statue of Le Tiss by the players entrance with.. LOYALTY on the plinth. I know its too much to ask these days, but its a motto we should contemplate.

Burley lacked respect and we all know why... hic. JP... hic. and now Wotte.... errr well can't really type the noises for that (thank goodness).... allegedly.

And CaM calls me simplistic?

lol!

How can we expect our team to show discipline when the coach has a reputation of having none himself? .... allegedly.

Ditto to Trouser's sentiments. Club doesnt need your money, but needs your support to remove Lowe and Wilde and rebuild. It needs your support to advertise it as being FOR SALE and to embarrass those shareholders who resist into selling. Saints has never needed it's players as much as it does now. Young AND old.

Much as I'd like to agree with you Jonah I dont. Crouch HAS put his own money into the Club and HAS offered quite publically to do the same again if Wilde/Lowe matched him. For balance it is also fair to say that Mike Wilde HAS put his own money in to pay for players wages in the past. The only man who has only ever taken and NEVER put his own money in is Lowe. I agree that the situation may have changed and Crouch may/may not have the money but that is entire speculation. Dont get me wrong I see Crouch as nothing other than a temporary solution. But he has one quality that Lowe doesnt have. He cares for this Club.

The real question is, 'Can Leon bring in £2m now bearing in mind his own business is in trouble?' In which case it would be a level playing field question instead of an obvious take Crouch as Chairman for the relegation fight as if nothing else he'd be able to afford some loanees and a better manager. It would therefore be.... Lowe or Crouch? Who would you prefer for the run in? Personally, I'd still go for Crouch. The reason is that I see more chance of him selling up later for the good of a Club he supports rather than Lowe who'll continue to play with the toy he's broken until it miraculously fixes itself or it is completely destroyed and he finally loses interest.

It was supposed to be simplistic as it was a road map But I realise its not without its inponderables and speed-bumps. If there is a will to follow this strategy it can be made to work. I think the vast majority of fans would want to see it executed but as you rghtly point out - the crux of the problem IS with the fact this club is run as a plc. That has always been the problem and those of us who have been warning for about 4-5 years on this site and its predecessor that the plc would lead us into the CCC and lower are being (SADLY) vindicated. I disagree about administration as I fear Lowe has a plan to buy up the Club at a bargain price. Even if the plc was destroyed and we had Lowe as the one owner it would fail - he has never given £ only ever taken. He is inept. He inspires as much confidence in the club and its supporters as having Gary Glitter on a babysitting register. I worry about administration, but would welcome it as a last resort - IF your scenario played out.

I think all that is entirely fair criticism. Its a case of, of the devils we know, which one would be better? As I say - happy to take Crouch in the short term - but the main effort of this club now has to be to finding a new owner.

Doesnt make much sense this story. But then what does in the minds of the management of Southampton Leisure Holdings plc?

Only hand tailored ones. Anyway must go have to pick up my daughter from boarding school...