egg

Ditto. I get that they'd had enough, but what they did was large scale terrorism. Sure, they expected a response , but did they expect something on this scale? The denial of water and food? The forced exodus to South Gaza, and then in all likelihood over the border? In terms of motivation I think that they thought that others would draw themselves in and attack Israel. In reality I can't see that happening. On that, Hamas didn't read the room.

I'm not getting into a Corbyn chat, but the rest of it is spot on. I honestly don't think that Western governments, and their supportive media, have read the room in terms of public opinion.

Sorry Badger, well reminded.

This is a very passionate and honest article from a Canadian journalist. I couldn't agree more with this part: "The monstrous plan is as plain as Netanyahu’s wretched character: Be done with Gaza by erasing Gaza. Anyone, anywhere, in any forum who denies this fact is either a liar, blind – or willfully, happily, and comfortably both". https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/10/14/this-is-genocide

Yep. Too good a game for the QF. 30 odd phases at the end, but superb defence from NZ.

Bath

...

Paper

His selection alone justified it. Plus the performance. Plus the other stuff.

Lobster

Aerial

Ford

Read above Del. SoG has not dragged this thread down - he has contributed sensibly to the discussion. The descent of this thread is unfortunate, and hopefully it can get back to people offering their respective views in a reasonable way. Too many decent threads have been ruined by unnecessary nonsense, and this one is going the same way.

"Thick sunshine" doesn't have a great ring to it to be fair. Saying nothing probably more sensible though. On a general point, it's sad to see this thread, on such a difficult and sensitive subject, descend into the usual name calling and childish bollox. Most of the posters seem like intelligent people and you'd like to think they could focus on the issues rather than the people actually trying to discuss the issues.

If the people you spoke with wanted to see Gaza eradicated I can't imagine that they would tell a foreign traveller. Regardless, Netanyahu has said in the past week that he'll turn Gaza to rubble, not that you'll have seen msm report that. The Israeli government have form for doing what they want, not necessarily their people. Indeed, their leaders have previous for doing what they want, regardless of the government or public opinion - look at what Sharon did to the Bedouin people and it's land in Sinai. It's also worth remembering what Israel's defence minister said about Lebanon and Hezbollah recently. The quote is below - substitute Hamas for Hezbollah and Gaza for Lebanon and it's chillingly close to what we're seeing, and will doubtless see over coming days and weeks. “Do not make a mistake. We do not want a war. But we are prepared to protect our civilians, our soldiers and our sovereignty", "You (Lebanon / Hezbollah) have made mistakes in the past, you have paid very heavy prices. If … an escalation or conflict develops here, we will return Lebanon to the Stone Age.”, Gallant went on to say that Israel would not hesitate to use its power to “erode every inch of Hezbollah and Lebanon if we have to”. That's the reality of the Israeli governments mind set, right there.

There's a certain irony to Britain, Egypt and France ending up with Palestinian refugees. Bloody sad though.

It's different messages, but why should the FA follow the government position. Even the BBC have (to a fashion) have refused to follow orders and call Hamas terrorists. The FA position, particularly on the armbands, is respectfully neutral in terms of the impact of what's happened/happening on both sides. The arch decision, I suspect, is based on the same principles.

This post crossed with yours. Hopefully we can all keep on topic, and he civil. I'll do my best.

Your full on with the petty insults and digs on this thread Whelk. How's about trying to address the actual issues and comments, rather than the posters. Just a thought, sunshine.

I mean no disrespect Duck, but there's a naivety to this. Netanyahu has essentially said that he wants to flatten Gaza. He's doing that. He now wants the top half of Gaza to move south. That allows that half of the job to be finished. What do you think he'll do after that, leave the Palestinians to live in peace in the south? Of course he won't, he'll need the Palestinians out of there so he can finish the job there (or clear out Hamas as he'll sell it). Where do those people then go? The north is destroyed so it won't be there. It can only be Sinai. I may be wrong, but if the Palestinians move to south Gaza I'd be staggered if we don't see a max exodus of Palestinians to Sinai simply as there is nowhere else for them. They'll have next to nothing left to go back to, and even if they did, it'll be undoubtedly be under Israeli control. Let's see how this pans out, but this isn't about crushing Hamas. Sure, Hamas brought a response upon itself and the Palestinians, but what's happening and will happen is beyond the pale.

You're just making stuff up now. Behave. I'm not sure how someone who is appalled by the Hamas actions is "justifying terrorism". To quote your words to Benji above, you're better than that. Probably. I'm not pro the Israeli governments actions. Absolutely not. That does not make me pro Hamas.

This isn't an isis discussion. This is about Israel/Palestine. For a self proclaimed clever bloke, your inability to look at the whole picture is surprising. Unless of course you prefer not to. PS. no need to dictate what people say.

Nobody has said that Hamas have done right. Everyone who's posted on here has joined in the condemnation. But, anyone who cannot see that what Israel are doing in Gaza is wrong, and cannot appreciate that their motives are to destroy Gaza and punish it's people, needs to give their head a fucking massive wobble.

I like they have recognised that there's two sides in this, have taken a neutral stance. Never listened to LBC. I'm guessing it's kind of like GB news but in the radio, in which case I'll give it a wide berth.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67085498 Sensible decision on both fronts.