egg

I'm not here to tell you what you are, no more than you can expect people to agree with what believe / don't, but ^^^^ up there somewhere you said that you needed evidence to believe thus by my understanding that's the definition of an agnostic. The interpretation of atheism is a whole new subject, but if you want to be one of them instead, knock yourself out. Of course man created man made things!! Nobody is claiming otherwise. The point you make is that man created a whole nation (Israel) and made it a mega power cos man wanted its creation to tie in with the Bible prophecies. As I say, all options seem far fetched but I can't believe world powers sat down after ww2 and said "about this Jewish state, let's have a look at the bible and do what it said in there". Is that really what you're saying?

Mate, I'm not debating the former with you, and certainly so need to justify myself to you. You're an agnostic, I'm not, so let's leave it there. Re the latter, it's been done to death on this thread. Again, you have a view and there are other views. Personally, I can't see any options other than the 3 that I have outlined. People are entitled to believe in any of them, neither of them, or something else. I respect people's individual opinions on such a thorny and individual subject.

You're fusing 2 different subjects. God, and the Bible. I have a belief in the former, but find the latter hard to believe in many respects - the concept of a virgin birth being one - but whether the realised events flowing from the prophecies were a) predictions coming true or b) people working backwards to fulfil a prophecy or c) complete coincidence is a matter of opinion. I can see how people could see a), b) and c) all as being far fetched. Whilst I don't have a firm view on how it is that certain prophecies have come true, the great intellectual Einstein once said "Coincidence is God's way of remaining anonymous", or to put it another way, coincidences are gods calling cards. Whatever anyone thinks, the bloke who formed the theory of relativity was no mug.

As I say, interpretation is key. So let me get this straight. World forces beyond ww2 worked together to create the state of Israel, then worked together to make it a powerful state, then worked together for the recognition of Jerusalem as its capital, just because they wanted the bible story to be proved true? For a while you were looking relatively sane on this thread.

I've read that. Sure, the Bible does not mention years but it refers to the creation and growth of Israel. I'm as cynical as you, but there is no denying what it says has happened. It could be coincidence, but you know what Einstein said about them...

I know that the question was directed at raging bull, but as he says, the prophecies can be linked to post ww2 events. While it's clear that the scriptures are open to interpretation, it's possible to interpret that they predicted the creation and growth of Israel. I don't have an opinion on how that's possible but it was a bloody bold prediction that's come true. There's much in there about the future of the world, the middle east and Jerusalem role in it (the future capital of the world according to the book of Zechariah - at least according to my Google search, I don't pretend to know any of this stuff!). There is no denying the power of Israel and the importance of Jerusalem (just this year recognised by USA as the capital of Israel...) and some of the coincidences, if that's what they are, in the bible ain't a million miles from reality.

Why are you obsessed with this subject? Odd to say the least. This is a footy forum. Most of us have a view 1. whether or not god exists, and 2. whether the Bible is boll0cks, but most of us enjoy Christmas as a family /happy occasion regardless on our views on 1 or 2. What most of us don't do is discuss 1 or 2 on a footy forum. Whatever your point is, you've made it. Finish off your selection boxes and enjoy the Liverpool match mate.

Knight

Can

Never a beetle Del, but I've bought sold plenty of classic cars. Sure, I hoped that the buyer would love them like I did, but deep down it was about the money. A more relevant analogy though is had one of my daughters inherited those cars, but wasn't sufficiently interested to keep up its maintenance and throwing the required money at it, would they really be expected to wait for "the" buyer who would cherish and throw money at them as I did? The honest answer is no, and thats what this whole debate comes down to - passionate fans unrealistically expecting the female Austrian heiress to have the same passion for our local club as we do.

If her heart / purse wasn't in it, then she had taken the club as far as she could. What's dishonest about admitting that? It was her dad's train set, not hers. The second bit, however, may not be honest. Sure its possible that Gao pulled the wall over her eyes, but in truth who sells something and gives a monkeys if the buyer is going to look after it?

Directors loan repayments are tax free and come from the company.

Why? Both had good games last night. I'd keep the same team, although I'd arguably replace Djenepo with Armstrong if he's fit to give a bit more solidity down the right.

Policy

Would any defence look good in a 424 (basically that's what it was) with Hoj and JWP in front of them? I remember the Chris Nicholls 424 days when we struggled at the back, and that was with Case as a protector, and in an era when full backs mostly stayed back. Yesterday we had full backs bombing on joining a front 4. It's a suicide system and the CB's did well yesterday.

I'm not sure whether to take that to mean that you actually know that the club have planted fake stories, or that's what you've told yourself. I think it's the latter. Answer the other point though please. How would any fan expecting something to happen feel placated when it doesn't happen just cos the paper said it would? Your whole conspiracy theory is based on the fact that fans will believe a lie (printed in the telegraph of all places) and somehow feel happier if the lie doesn't come off just cos they read about it. And what then, ie what's the point of these planted lies? Does the fan who saw a 9 nil defeat on the telly rush out and buy tickets for the next home game, or go and buy his kid a shirt cos the telegraph said that the cavalry are coming? It's boll0cks pal, journalists are full of sh:te

You believe that the club plant that these stories "to placate fans when they don't happen". I'm struggling to understand how any fan expecting something to happen will feel placated when it doesn't happen just cos the paper said it would. That's nuts - the obvious reaction is the opposite. Tell me which telegraph stories that didn't come true came from the club, and how you know (rather than assume) that they came from the club. Personally, I'll continue to accept that papers are capable of writing boll0cks without help from Southampton fc.

It was in a paper and it hasn't happened. That's a rumour. Has every story in the telegraph about us come true? Where it hasn't, what makes you say that it was a planted story rather than paper talk? Same applies here.

Yep. It was noticeable how Obafemi up top with Ings kept Luiz back in his own half. Tactics were good on Saturday.

It's a newspaper story and there's nothing "odd" with treating newspaper rumours as exactly that.

It was a newspaper article, i.e. a rumour. Additionally, somebody on here claiming to be ITK added their view, i.e. an additional rumour. This whole thing has sprung up from rumour, nothing more and I don't buy into the conspiracy theory that the club began the rumour. I've with you on the last point though; that would be a stellar group of people.

Same place as the new dof/coaching restructure before the end of the international break - the rumour mill.

It was a toss up between Mane, Vardy or Aubemeyang to captain my fantasy team. That line up has made it an easy choice sadly.

Can only be pace. He'll do OK if his hamstrings can make it through a game.

Looks like 4222 or 442. There line up is odd too. Either 3 at the back or Chambers in midfield I'd guess. Gonna be goals in this game.