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Yoshida Vestergaard Stephens Bednarek Hoedt Not a great fan of Vestergaard cos of his lack of pace and speed on the turn, but he just about comes in second as he's decent in the air. Hoedt is a shocking player and if Vestergaard is in the side, either Stephens or Bednarek are better options imo than him.

Redmond was shocking last season. It's now this season. Redmond was excellent second half on Sunday. I've seen nothing in Sims in either 1st team football, or the times I've seen him in the u23's, to suggest he's at the level Redmond was against Burnley and/or that he'll improve our starting 11. Sure he's capable but let's not kid ourselves. Tell me when Sims has shown the ability to do better than Redmond last week, or otherwise has shown he'll improve our team. "Gallagher deserves a chance" has been done to death but not one person has pointed to anything other than a few goals at Blackburn a couple of years ago in the championship as a reason to support it. All this "Gabbi was rubbish" doesn't actually make Gallagher suddenly good enough or better. I mean Puel was a crap manager for us so anyone else must have been better right? Oh yeah.... I'm guessing that most of the people saying give the kids a chance have never watched a reserve or u23 game. I've watched many. The kids that have a future stand out at that level. Lallana was leagues above his peers. Le Tiss and Shearer before him. They make the game look easy and the premier league standard has increased massively since. The coaches and managers see these kids in the u23 games. They see how they do on loan. They'd play the youngsters if they were good enough. After all the kids aren't coached, nurtured, and paid to be released to go ply their trade at Yeovil but the reality is that is the best most of them can expect. There's too much ****** and sentiment on here.

Who's good enough, and who are they better than?

Spose he could be, but the point applies to him. He looked very average last night. You set the world alight in the u23's you probably get a chance. You look average and you won't. He looked average.

Why do you say Valery looks lost? He's a kid with promise who's learning his trade. He's not ready for premier league football. To say he's been overlooked is ridiculous. The pathway for the youngsters isn't blocked. None of them are good enough. You keep on about Gallagher and Sims but if you saw the u23 last night and compare it to Ings and Redmond on Sunday you'd understand why Gallagher and Sims aren't playing.

Same. Both full backs have something about them though, particularly Valery who is a prospect.

Your point was why didn't we loan him, not bring him in on a loan to buy. My point was perhaps that wasn't an option. Simple comment and I ain't getting into a long debate, or an irrelevant Carillo debate.

I've read that but didn't see the bit that said a straight loan was an option we declined which was the main point I was responding to.

Perhaps because a straight loan wasn't an option - buyers don't impose terms when there's competition for a player. Or perhaps it is a loan with "a view" to buy as per the Echo, not an obligation. Fact is that we don't know the facts. Relax and get behind the lad.

Boufal by his absence was ineffective. Tadic was very creative and underappreciated by many. He'll be a miss and the new boys have big shoes to fill.

I thought the same. Selling Targett and buying Montoya makes more sense than having no dedicated right back cover and 3 left backs.

It's all about opinions, but I disagree. Forster was awful last season and had McCarthy not stepped up we almost certainly would have been relegated. We needed solid competition for McCarthy and Forster wasn't it.

Agree. McQueen was adequate lb cover when Targett was on loan and will be adequate again this season.

I question why anyone would give a monkeys what anyone's kit looked like, ours included.

Yep. He's got pace and can finish. We've not got another forward with both qualities. Would be a good addition.

So because we needed a goalscorer you think we should have kept a 2nd choice keepe who's no longer good enough? That makes sense.

Amen. If the youngsters were good enough they'd play. They don't because they're not. There's too much sentiment at times. Sentiment doesn't win football matches.

In a 4 Stephens will be solid, not exciting going forward, but solid. Yoshida in the middle plus one of the other 3 (Bednarek best of the lot imo, Hoedt and Vestergaard look awful signings) and we'll have a better defensive set up than this back 3/5 gives us. A 433 will give another man in the middle to protect the defence, and the forward 3 will give width from forwards rather than out of position defenders... problem is the club have thrown 30mil plus at immobile centre backs and I'm guessing Hughes will be expected to play them.

If a "mess" translates to a "realist" then you're right.

It seems that he was, ie from what I've seen it it's impossible to see how he improves the team and/or complements the other defenders. If he was brought in as a Hoedt upgrade with mobile CB's around him I could understand, but as this game shows, playing them together ain't a good plan. Proper scouting should have highlighted that. A signing for the sake of a signing.

They're both slow on the turn, and in a 3 susceptible to balls in behind and in the channels. Argue all you like but I ain't persuaded that they're a good combination.

He couldn't run either so we've bought another lad who can't run and played them together. Mobility and speed are more important than aerial ability - this ain't league 2.

I thought we signed Hoedt to deal with balls in the air. Having signed Hoedt, and committed to a back 3, we should have signed a player to complement him. Signing someone who shows up the worst qualities in both of them was ridiculous. And as for playing for them together in a back 4...

Vestergaard was a signing for the sake of a signing. Him alongside Hoedt is a car crash - both slow as hell. If we must play a 3 we need Bertrand on left of a 3, and Yoshida in there somewhere. If a 4 then Yoshida plus a roll of the dice from the others.

I suspect Fulham also know there's a massive gulf between the championship and the premier league. They think he can make the jump, but the fact is that he's unproven in any kind of defensive set up in the premier league.