Lord Duckhunter

Spot on The fact that to get this great deal Dave had to go begging to Poland , Romania & Germany to let us change our benefit rules , proves your point . The Remainians are clinging to nurse too scared to let go of the comfort blanket . Good job this attitude weren't around earlier in our history , otherwise the pilgrim fathers may have only moved to Wiltshire . Nobody can predict the future , will Turkey join the EU in the next 20 years , that would make a pretty unstable future . The only certainty if we stay in , is the certainty that we won't be able to decide who can come and go , who can claim benefits . There will be certainty that that the EU will continue to make domestic policy , continue to tell us what vat we can and can't charge and on what . That sort of certainty is not that of an independent nation .

"The country would be better off if we stayed in " is interesting . How do you measure " better off " ? Increase in GDP per head of population , increase in average earnings , or just the GDP of the country . Labour fought the last election on the idea that we did have growth , but that growth had made the rich rich richer and the poor poorer . They seem unable to accept the same argument for EU membership . Is it possible that the macro figures show we are better off , but vast numbers of our population are worse off . They are having their wages surpressed by too much supply , the fact that BMW's go up in price is hardly going to keep them awake at night . Prosperity is not a black & white issue , there are plenty of shades of grey and it boils down to gut instinct rather than figures . Tony Benn claimed the EU was a rich mans club and it's funny that lefties believe Tories are the devils children , that they will destroy the NHS ,that they do favours for their city buddies , get rich on the backs of the poor, hate the working man , yet believe every single thing they say on the EU . Dave the man who'll sell the family silver , the NHS and crush the poor is working for the good of everyone with his fantastic " deal". Whilst Geoge Galloway , Frank Field , Bob Crow & Tony Benn , who spent their whole lives sticking up for the poor are wrong. Strange days

You can Trade with the EU without accepting free movement of people . Mexico , South Africa , Turkey all have free trade agreements with the EU , can Mexicans turn up without work permits and work , are millions of Turks entitled to move here ?

It's why Corbyn , until he needed to maintain party unity , wanted us out . Surprised anyone on the left can overlook this. The biggest threat to opening up the NHS to American providers is not the Tories , but their beloved EU

Corbyn has been consistent in his approach towards the EU , until he needed to keep his front bench together . He voted to Leave , voted against Maastricht and even talked of leaving during his leadership hustings. If anybody put his career & party before his principles it is him , rather than Boris

Just like Corbyn then .

They will be treated exactly the same as Victor and Mane . We won't be able to treat different nationals differently . Pretty progressive stuff , treating people on the basis of their skills and content of their mind , rather than where they come from

But you'll accept opening up our NHS to American health care providers .

**** me , if Canadians had the same narrow negative outlook as the Remainians on here , it would be a state in the USA .

More harmony from the Remainians as Nicola Sturgeon warns Cameron he " better not campaign in Scotland " .

Not unelected Europeans .

Cameron claims that Corbyn " hates Britain " , Hillary Benn says he won't share a platform with any Tory . Labour ministers claim that Cameron will sell the nhs to his city buddies , The Nats call labour red Tories , Sturgeon is called the most dangerous women in the uk , yet all the lap dog bbc can concentrate on is Leave splits & Farage / Galloway show . Pathetic from the establishment , George & Nigel are life long Leave people , but for entirely different reasons , but they're still consistent , unlike the Mays and Javids of the world . The mayor of London coming onboard shoots a load of Cameron's foxes .

There's also the question off getting the timing through Westminster . The Nats were against a June date because there's Scottish elections in the early summer , they wanted Sept . I also read somewhere that the electrol commission weren't happy with June for the same reason . I guess labour will vote for June & it'll carry , because like Cameron they'll want to go early before the migrant thing kicks off all summer , but it would be interesting if they pushed for a different date just to embarrass Dave. Sept is better for Leave MPs , so the government will be defeated if labour want to do so.

Hopefully that will dawn on some of them because there's no other way they're going to get another referendum anytime soon . Of course the SNP used to be anti EU , until they started to base their answer to the " what will an independent Scotland look like" on The Celtic tiger and EU membership .

If he wasn't labour leader he'd be voting leave , he's put his career and party management above his principles .

Galloway campaigned on Cameron's side during the Scottish vote , the establishment were OK with that . He's only following the Lefts historic position , a position taken by Benn, Foot, Crow, Corbyn ( before he put career before country ) & Kinnock ( before him & his mrs jumped aboard the gravy train ) . George will reach parts of the electorate others can't . Dingy-Jones , Frank Field , Gisela Stuart , Priti Patel, Kate Hoey , these are people Cameron is going to have a hard job portraying as loons . Fry is right ,a remain vote won't change anything , the same feeling will come over people it did following Wilsons con . The feeling that we didn't vote for this . When people realise that this " special position " is pony , when TTIP opens up the nhs to American health providers , when the migrant crisis explodes ,when millions of Turks get free movement , when we can't deport a terrorist , people are going to feel disillusioned . The country is more split than that previous vote , it could well be that England vote out only for other nations to keep us in . The Tory faithful are committed to out in the vast majority of cases , (good luck to the Remainian that goes to the grassroots in a leadership election ). The only way this boil was ever going to be lanced is if we were persuaded to see the Eu like Europeans see it . We don't , but nobody ever argues that case . They still try and say it's just a trading bloc or we have a special position in it . One day the establishments chickens will come home to roost , their lies will catch up with them . Hopefully it'll be June 23rd but if not , like the Scot Nats , the leave people aren't going away .

It's easier with a nipper now as you can choose your seats. Of the games left , there'll be no issues at any of them . Leicester will be good as it'll be rocking and they're a pretty friendly bunch on the whole .

John Major & his band of Euro nutters lead by , Hessaltine , Clarke and Fat Pang , should have given the British people a say . They couldn't , because they don't work like that . They gave away vast areas of British sovereignty without getting the people's consent . Hopefully they and the present band of wet little Europeans led by Dave & Gideon will have their smug patronising faces rubbed in it , come the glorious day we leave this old fashioned inward looking club for good . Just a shame that the biggest traitor , Grocer Heath isn't here to witness it .

You wouldn't think it was bonkers for a Scotsman to work in London and send child benefit back to Glasgow. That is exactly how the EU see it. The problem is that the British Establishment have lied to the people for 40 years and tried to claim it's just some sort of trading bloc. It isn't , it never has been and it never will . The Europeans except this and in the main agree with it, but because the Brits would never except it we are conned and lied to. The Remain nutters nerver ever make a positive case for the EU as it is. They all talk about reforming it, but it's horseshiete , it won't reform because its exactly what the Establishment want , it does exactly what it says on the tin. This insulting pantomime that Cameron is engaged in is just one big con. Why can't he just admit what the EU is asnd where it's heading , then we can vote in or out . The won't because it'll be Out , just as it would have been back in the 70's had the people known what it was to become .

How is he any more disloyal than any other manager ?

I'm sorry but it's a relic of a bygone era . My 4 kids aren't particularly interested in it , certainly not like my generation was and they're mad keen football supporters 2 of which have season tickets and do half the aways each season , so they are football fans . They range from 27 to 15 and none of their mates are particularly interested in it either . They may watch it, but finals don't stir the emotions like they did for the 40+ fan . Look at Wigan , that should have been up there with our win , Sunderlands , Ipswich , but their scorer isn't revered like Bobby , Roger Osborne or Ian Porterfireld . When 4th place is better than winning it , whilst the play off final is more important, it's never going to return to all its former glory , despite what us old farts want . The only chance it's got is if the winner goes stright into the champions league ( not qualifying rounds ) & the Premier league will never agree to that . I take no pleasure in it & im not trying to wind people up . I'm glad I was about to see the tail end of its great days , but the Premier league has killed it stone dead . Yes , it's a good day out but for neutrals it's pretty boring . Even the giant killings are boring now , beating a premiership second 11 isn't quite the same as Ronnie Radord , Dickie Guy ect ect

**** me , I'd thought we'd had enough on this forum about this waster , but no The Gastonettes are determined to pay homage to the great man . I can see it now , the year 2056 and the Gastonettes banging on about an assist in the Montevideo Walking Football league .

Based on what? You seem to think that because he upped and jumped ship at the first opportunity he's going to do it again . The situation he found himself in that summer is totally different from the situation he will find himself in this summer . Some of our supporters seem to have convinced themselves that he's that sort of bloke , a disloyal twt. Maybe it's because they don't want to accept that perhaps Levy & Spurs were far more attractive than us. If Utd or Chelsea flash their knickers at Ron , what do you suppose he will do , turn them down and sign a new contract with us ? No doubt you'll be posting the same about him if it happened .

Totally different set of circumstances than when he left us . One , he's still working for the chairman that took him on & who he appears to have a decent relationship with . Two, he can gain champions league experience with Spurs , experience that could lead to a bigger job . Three, there's a decent chance he could win something , he's been in one final already . There's also the prospect of a 60,000 stadium which is near on double what we have. There's also the question of his contract , I doubt levy will make it as easy as we did to move on . Why do people think that just because he bailed out on us after 18 months he's going to do the same to them ? Their a different level than us .

If anybody thinks we will finish above Manchester City they're ****ing clueless