John B

So are we in in or out of the single market. Are we in or out of the customs union If we have to trade with WTO rules what will be the levels of tariffs these things are leading to uncertainty I cannot see many companies wanting to invest in the UK if they dont know what the rules are .

You are as usual wrong I agree George Osborne's has mismanaged the economy but Brexit has compounded the situation so £220bn has been added to the Debt. £78bn of that is due to the expected post-referendum slowdown in the economy, £16bn is from government spending and tax decisions, and most of the rest is the result of measures taken by the Bank of England in August to avert recession (its initiatives to help banks lend and to purchase bonds). So it's reasonable to suggest that £220bn increase in the national debt is the financial cost of Brexit and in all likelihood this amount will increase. I agree Osborne has ruined the economy but Brexit has made it even worse I know you will not admit it but if you think you are right perhaps you tell me in figures why Brexit has not caused a major problem with the economy Here are the details of how much Britain now has to borrow. 2016-2017: £68.2bn deficit, up from £55.5bn in the Budget in March 2017-2018: £59bn, up from £38.8bn 2018-2019: £46.5bn up from £21.4bn 2019-2020: £21.9bn compared with a surplus of £10.4bn 2020-2021: £20.7bn compared with a surplus of £11bn

Hammond’s statement was a chance to make a first big assessment of the impact of Brexit on the UK economy. The verdict is, without question, bleak. Growth is down, borrowing has to rise, and the dream of a surplus has been deferred to “as soon as practicable”, ie never

I think I will take notice of people with a little more economics knowledge than some so called pompous bloke on a football forum who seems to think that whatever he believes is right especially as Brexit vote wiped £1.2tn off UK household wealth in 2016

There has been almost zero British wage growth since global financial crisis which is shown in the graph in the post above. Figures from recruitment giant Korn Ferry underlines weakness of UK average pay since fall of Lehman Brothers http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/zero-british-wage-growth-since-global-financial-crisis-new-data-shows-a7226961.html mostly because of Tory Policies which advantage the wealthy In fact the UK joins Greece at bottom of wage growth league https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/jul/27/uk-joins-greece-at-bottom-of-wage-growth-league-tuc-oecd How people think the Tories are economically competent beats me. Taking us into BREXIT makes it even worse

Very true but BREXIT is the the most econimically stupid thing has happened to the UK as inflation grows growth and investment reduce and we all get poorer Things only appear OK at the moment because consumer debt is increasing as real wages are significantly less than in 2008

I agree with your sentiments but really that is our only choice we just dont have the resources to compete with the big City teams we were lucky last year as Liverpool and Chelsea were so poor but it is not the case this season

According to the Guardian: The government’s independent economic watchdog will tear up its previous forecasts for the UK’s growth prospects as it gives its first official verdict on the outlook for post-Brexit Britain this week. The Office for Budget Responsibility is expected to paint a gloomy picture of lower growth, higher inflation and a larger-than-expected deficit as the UK negotiates its way out of the EU. Now the OBR has a well founded reputation for getting its forecasts wrong: they are always too optimistic. In this case that is no comfort: expect things to be worse than they say. And what this shows is how resoundingly fickle people are. They bought the austerity narrative until they bought the EU / migration narrative. And then they voted to make themselves worse off. All that can be concluded is that politics is no longer just about the economy. Or that people can be conned, and are.

Apparently he is one of the best in Europe he reffed the 2016 UEFA Champions League Final and the UEFA Euro 2016 Final so he must be pretty good I would have thought

I think we have done OK especially as we have been involved in Europe and the League Cup and had a few injuries to attacking players

I agree but it is not easy getting a reliable goal scorer. We usually lose these type of games lets hope our luck continues 0 0 would be a decent result

There are no services in the customs union only stuff What do you mean no services in single market Services maybe involved if you sell something

A pretty disgraceful post from a loud mouth perhaps who thinks money grows on trees Support the team they cannot always win every game especially as they did really well on Thursday I dont expect the team is particularly happy playing in Hull after beating Inter on Thursday

We lost a bit upset but that is football if you cannot accept losing what is the point of playing the game

It is not in dispute that 17,410,74 voted to leave the EU what is in dispute is what does leaving the actually meanmean. It certainly does not mean that £350million per week is going to the NHS it does not mean that we are going to get a points based immigration system. It does however mean that people's standard of living are going to fall as inflation and unemployment rise and economic growth falters. It means a great deal of uncertainty for large numbers of UK citizens because of concerns in relation to foreign companies investing in the UK and UK citizens living in Europe on their future status. There are huge concerns in the island of Ireland on how Brexit is going to affect their daily lives. Is OK voting out but but when you dont know what voting out means I think is slightly naive . The referendum was just a political ploy by the Conservatives in order to win the 2015 GE it had nothing to do with the well being of the country and its citizens. Now unelected PM Mrs May wants to BREXIT by coming up with ideas of her own and her cabinet without any discussion and inspection by our democratically elected MPs. We are going to leave the EU but we need agreement from most of the population otherwise we are in for a great deal of social grief in the future if the way some people are reacting with threats and violence Theresa May has handled all this so badly. If when she first took charge she had said something along the lines of "we need to follow-through with what people voted for, but it's not going to be an easy task. The voices of those who voted remain should also be acknowledged. We will leave, but there may be some compromises to get the best possible situation for the UK. We will have a parliamentary session to trigger article 50 and begin negotiations, at the end of which we will present to the public for them to have a final say over whether to proceed." I think that would have acceptable to to the majority of people on both sides of the debate and would be democratic and people would know what they were voting for.

There are times when MPs need to rise above their party interests, their own interests and the views of their constituents. That may risk being voted out, but they may earn more respect by standing up for the national interest as best they can determine: that’s what representative democracy is for. In times of war or national crisis, defending the country from grave error, at whatever personal cost, is their duty. Brexit is the greatest threat to national wellbeing since the war, and this will test the mettle not just of individual MPs, but of the nature and purpose of a representative democratic system. The pound soared following today’s high court news because markets are idiotic, shaped by punters second-guessing one another’s idiocy. This doesn’t suggest, alas, that Brexit is much closer to being reconsidered. Reality will take the pound back down, predicted to sink further with each step towards to the exit gate. Next year’s prices will rise, NIESR reckons, by 4%, hitting those who are “just managing” even harder. Every day another bad effect is revealed before anything has even happened. Today reveals an acute labour shortage in the food processing industries, as east Europeans are reluctant to come here. The shrinking pound decreases the value of their pay, and they hear awful stories of racist attacks and abuse. Without actually leaving, we are already keeping EU immigrants away. The damage is beginning already. The latest regreters are the £4bn curry house operators, who voted out. They were lied to outright, as Priti Patel and others told them fewer EU migrants would open the door to the chefs they desperately need and promised a points-based system to let chefs in. This has now been reneged on. There will be massive closures, they say. How naive could they be? A public stirred by Mail and Sun anti-migrant horror stories were made even more fearful of Muslim refugees pouring than of Poles: of course the government now says the screw is tightening and there will be no more Asian visas. Others too will find how badly they were lied to. Only 37% of the UK voted leave - since when is this a "majority" that many pro-Brexiteers are talking about Theresa May's government is skating on very thin ice. The Royal Prerogative is incompatible with the sovereignty of Parliament, not to mention democracy - more so if it is to be used by an unelected Prime Minister to pursue a policy she has claimed she did not think was right for Britain, and has now flipped 180 degrees on the basis of a referendum decision that resulted from a fraudulent campaign that was seriously and deliberately misleading. The fiction that an MP appointed by the government as Attorney General can be an 'honest' legal adviser is equally preposterous. Brexit has amounted to a coup d'etat to seize power by a clique of right wing demagogues who deliberately led a campaign based upon deception, lies and reckless disregard of any planning for the consequential destruction of the trade agreements, and the destabilisation of pan European partnerships upon which the prosperity and long term security of the now disunited Kingdom is primarily dependent. These political clowns are rightfully ridiculed by European leaders of every hue. Guy Verhfostadt sums them up perfectly here. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/28/brexit-negotiator-hits-out-at-uk-ministers-mixed-messages Neither this government, nor our dysfunctional, archaic, and unfit for purpose Parliament, have any credibility that can give legitimacy to the politically corrupt Brexit campaign. Brexit has destroyed the unity of the United Kingdom; it has exposed how hollow and rotten is the constitutional pretence that we have a democratic system of government protected by strong checks and balances. House of Commons Select Committees are lacking in power to bring Ministers to acount. Prime Ministers are loose cannons. Neither the fractured United Kingdom, nor England, will ever be reunited by this rogue unelected premiership nor by a Parliament that seeks to pass over what has happened by, meekly acquiescing to the ludicrous undemocratic Royal Prerogative. Britain should be deeply ashamed that it has become so disreputable. The constitutional legitimacy of the shallow dishonest Brexit campaign and the validity of the referendum as an informed democratic decision must be challenged in the House of Lords and/or the Supreme Court by Public Legal Officials acting on behalf of UK citizens. There must also be a thorough inquiry as to what is so wrong with our entire system of government in the UK that it has lost touch with so many regions, and has failed the nation for so long that it has brought the nation to the brink of disintegration and collapse. Nothing less than a total Constitutional Reformation is now required. Parliament is effectively an unrepresentative sham democratic one House institution. The fictional 'make it up' as you go along unwritten Constitution is a wizard of Oz construct. It is high time Britain got rid of fake democracy. Parliament has become a decayed house of ill repute as decrepit as the building in which it resides. It is this or risk a constitutional crisis that might well provoke a second Cromwellian reformation. Either Parliament is seen to act honourably to cleanse itself or it will fall. Using the Royal Prerogative may end up bringing down Parliament and the Monarchy.

No one is saying we shouldn't leave the EU. They are saying that the UK constitutional process for anything that changes a person rights in law is for a parliamentary act. Brexiters need to get a grip and get over it. I voted remain but would support my MP voting for Article 50 to leave the EU. because I understand democracy. Changing our constitution where parliament is no longer sovereign is the first step to dictatorships and fascisim. You do make an interesting point that the average person does not understand the issues relating to the EU and Brexit and have been led to believe untruths and lies. Even yesterday Bill Cash was either intentionally or possibly because he did not know saying things about the EU on how it works which were factually untrue. On the World at One Sir Keir Starmer, the shadow Brexit secretary, says he accepts that Britain should leave the EU. But parliament needs to be consulted on the terms of leaving He says the government cannot get away with refusing to reveal its negotiating stance. This needs to be repeated over and over until even the thickest Brexitbot gets it...the decision is not about overturning the referendum but about ensuring parliament correctly acts as a brake on the Executive and post EU the country is reasonable state with people in jobs. It's clear that the government is blundering around blindly in search of a strategy and yet some people think that parliament should pass up the oversight function How irresponsible would that be? May and the Brexiters need to get their arses into gear and start formulating a strategy and then explaining it. I agree with Andrew Tyrie, the Conservative chair of the Commons Treasury committee (and a remain voter in June), on the court ruling who said . Whatever the supreme court decides, the government should be much more transparent about its objectives in the negotiations, in some detail, and the sooner the better. It should also ensure that parliament can scrutinise the objectives, and vote on them. There are many good reasons for this. Among several, it can enable the construction of broad-based public consent for the UK’s future relationship with the EU. The UK is leaving; a public debate is needed about where we want to arrive. Before taking off, it is always a good idea for the pilot to discuss with the passengers and crew where they might want to land. Second, clarity about the government’s objectives would enable a serious discussion with other Member States to get underway, prior to the triggering of article 50. And third, it can reduce the economic damage caused by uncertainty over the likely shape of the UK’s future relationship with the EU. It is the uncertainty about the terms of that relationship, far more than the additional time required to clarify the negotiating position, that carries the more significant cost. But at least SFC are still in Europe and our European Manager and Players are doing well

Surely you should be cheering today’s high court judgment as one of the loudest defenders of parliamentary sovereignty. So the judges have heeded your earnest plea to make parliament supreme. Your insistence that Westminster be the ultimate arbiter of our national affairs has been given the judicial seal of approval. Except, of course, you are not ,you wanted to leave in the name of wrestling power from Brussels to Westminster went strangely quiet when it came to the question decided by the court today: who has the power to trigger article 50? Suddenly you have found that parliament was not quite so sacred or central, that some things were best left to ministers to decide. Well, the judges have called out that hypocrisy. They have decided that the Brexiteers should have to comply with their own logic – and bow to parliament.

Affirmation of parliamentary sovereignty - just what the Brexiteers wanted! Great! So far May’s team have been all over the place when it comes to prioritising what is best for Britain, and it’s time they pull their socks up and started taking this seriously. Ultimately, the British people voted for a departure but not for a destination, which is why what really matters possibly allowing them to vote again on the final deal, giving them the chance to say no to an irresponsible hard Brexit that risks our economy and our jobs.

I am quite happy with the way things are going at the moment there is no guarantee with new owners that we will do any better but I await developments

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It definitely includes you Duckie who does not know that the previous Bank of England Governor and Villa supporter was Mervyn King Inflation up to 4%, growth down ,real wages falling, deficit rising ,that's brexiflexity for you! but not good economics

I agree with Wes and presumily Les that there are Eurosceptics and there are Brexiters Brexiters are Eurosceptics too but not all Eurosceptics are Brexiters. Some Eurosceptics realise that Brexit is an economic disaster in the EU but some Brexiters will eventually realise this too as the cost of petrol diesel foreign holidays Inflation Marmite and Unemployment rise. I think staying in the EU customs zone is probably the best approach now but not sure how that affects and banking and services sectors.

There is a considerable difference in the obligations and rights of a state under being a member of a customs union and being a member of an integrated internal market or at least having free access to it. In a customs union there is no requirement to adhere to free movement of workers or comply with the markets regulations on product standards, however being in a customs union means that you cannot arrange and agree your own trade deals with countries that are not in the Customs Union, the reason for this is that if you could arrange your own trade deals, the UK could flood the EU markets with cheap exports that they originally imported from countries with whom they had arranged very favourable trade terms. The so called country of origin issue. A country benefits from being in this customs union by having tariff free trade on goods only not services.

I dont think leaving the EU with a falling pound inflation and low growth is a solution to our balance of payment problems and consumer debt. But of course you are right but these problems have not been addressed by the Tories in the last six years because of Osborne and his austerity let see what Hammond does