Nineteen Canteen

Not often you hear a new manager say he would like to achieve zero points after 5 games.

For us Lawrie McMenemy was a successful manager but assessed against his peers in that same period he was just a good manager. Look where Derby and Forest were before Clough got hold of them. McMenemy couldn't match that but arguably had similar resources as Clough. Anyway McMenemy's achievements cannot be argued with but what can be debated is that was he as great as the other managers of his era? No IMO. Therefore, should he be held in such high regard as some kind of 'patron saint' for 12 years service? No IMO. Should we hold him in the same high esteem as Bates and Le Tissier or even Benali and Dodd? No IMO. Post his managerial term has he conducted himself as an elder statesman? A diplomat and arbitrator working for the good of the club? No IMO. I believe McMenemy's biggest fan is himself and IMO his record in FOOTBALL does not warrant the praise some afford him.

Daren, I wasn't talking about Pinnacle I was talking about Crouch's backing of Wilde that IMO put this club in freefall.

Thank you Manji - you've made my week.

Maybe so, but your job did not rely on having an idea about the feeling/desires of the local community. Same applies to MP's who are given winnable seats to ensure they get a seat in the next parliament but have little or no idea about that local community. Any job that is intrinsicly linked to the local community should imply that the individual could do their job with greater backing and a greater level of understanding if they joined that community and lived locally. Southampton and its environs are not exactly Canning Town, Plumstead or Inner City Reading.

Come on Mike where is your sense of humour? I think Pardew is potentially the best manager we have had since Hoddle and could become the greatest ever. Time will tell.

I did, I just chose to interpret them differently.

Daren would it have been necessary for Crouch to dig so deep if he hadn't backed the wrong horse? Lowe contributed to our relegation but his approach afterwards and desire for financial prudence was proven to be correct and we can only guess how things may have turned out had he not been removed from office but my guess is we wouldn't be where we are now and ran so close to becoming extinct. Don't get me wrong Mr Liebherr is great news but we were very lucky and its a risk I wouldn't want to repeat or have had to stomach in the first place. Old ground though isn't it and I'm being sucked into an agrument for an off the cuff comment in response to Verbal's desire and others to prolong the agony.

Work it out for yourself Tame. If you read this forum regularly without a closed mind then you get to know who is worth listening to regardless of your own opinions and obviously as I am in the minority most of those whose writings I respect have views far removed from my own.

Desolation Row. aka Chilworth.

Do you think he knows the 'highway's jammed with broken heroes, On a last chance power drive'?

Walt Disney World, penis shaped space ships not required, just a minvan and petrol at $3 a gallon.

This is my alleged act of trolling. Verbal has a dig at those who tried to save the club so i make a light hearted comment about one of the alleged 'pygmies' still enjoying privileges and bandwagons roll. There are two sides to every argument and my advice is don't give out your unsubstantianted comments if you don't want a few challenges thrown back. The only thing I tend to take at face value are facts supported by evidence or in a public debate. Jingoistic posturing on a fans forum doesn't impress me and there are probably less than 5% of the posters whose writings I would trust and many of those I would guess hate my guts but I don't let prejudice close my eyes to their messages.

Brilliant, sincerely loving your work on this occasion. Much LOLness.

Probably an ex Michael Wilde fan.

Not as much as it probably hurt an over stretched and under funded A&E department to treat you. Hopefully, you had a nice big rough male nurse shove a painkiller where the sun don't shine which assuming you had been drinking was all they could do. Was the xray nurse gentle with you? I doubt it.

I hope you claimed on your private medical insurance as why we should pay for an NHS already on it's knees to sort out idiots like you is beyond my comprehension.

Grown men in football shirts unable to discuss their differences without resorting to mindless posturing and violence. Mindless is probably the common denominator followed by an inability to drink socially.

'Posts from their strongest supporters that are designed more to insult and rubbish me than to allay my concerns '

In no particular order: Players: Franny Benali Mick Channon Terry Paine Nick Holmes Bobby Stokes Chris Marsden Matt Le Tissier Wayne Bridge James Beattie Michael Svennson Steve Williams David Peach Jo Tessem Mick Mills Danny Wallace Mark Wright Jason Dodd Matt Oakley Marion Pahars Antti Niemi Theo Walcott Steve Moran Simon Gillett Kelvin Davis Rudi Skacel Zoltan Liptak (The last two are obviously a joke and as memorable as eachother) Non Players: Markus Liebherr Andrew Oldknow Rupert Lowe Andrew Cohen David Luker Dave Merrington Ted Bates Mark Wotte Glenn Hoddle Dave Jones Just a few names that pop into my head many simply because they were favourites at the time and many because looking back you admire their contribution and one because he was really friendly and happy to have a chat in Costa Coffee in West Quay even when we felt the need to leave him alone after the usual smile and acknowledgement. HTH

Nothing to do with Lowe more about how McMenemy 'the senior statesmen' conducted himself during the past 10 or so years, what I heard and read in the media and the alleged rumours I have picked up on here. I suppose its a bit like Crouch and his contributions to keep the club afloat. We all seem to recognise he made those contributions but no one seems to talk or show evidence of the conditions or otherwise that those contributions were made. In other words many vociferously defend the likes of McMenemy and Crouch who hide behind their strong reputation with the fans but there is IMO little evidence to prove or disprove some of the alleged rumours that would perhaps challenge the regard in which they are held IMO. Posts from their strongest supporters that are designed more to insult and rubbish me than to allay my concerns do nothing to convince me these alleged rumours are nothing more than untrue allegations. I doubt we will ever know the detailed truth but true legends should be beyond reproach and until Le Tissier's debacle with Pinnacle, Ted Bates had only one challenger as a true club legend. Time will tell if MLT recovers from that unfortunate association but again we don't really know if he was simply just a tad naive and perhaps a bit lazy in his desire to back a bid to save the club. I would love all this stuff to be put to bed in a Q&A public debate and answers duly evidenced so that all the misunderstandings that have built up over the past about some of our legends and benefactors can be positively addressed. Remember I did not start any of the rumours and have only picked up on stuff along the way but I have been unhappy with the way McMenemy and Crouch have conducted themselves in the media in the past and it is those issues that have fuelled my concerns in addition to all the other stuff that gets mentioned on here. So all your jingoistic nonsense and accusations that I am not a fan along with the rest of your sympathisers is not going to change my opinion and in the light as someone else said 'that the full facts will never be known' with regards to some aspects of various individuals contribution (Lowe included) I guess only the passage of time will heal the rift. In the meantime I prefer to concentrate on the future and certain that Mr Liebherr will as well. As Weston Saint mentioned earlier, it's not exactly that there are not enough issues to talk about on the pitch going forward and perhaps we need to accept our differing opinions on the past with the exception of the one man who deserves the title 'Saints Legend' and we even managed to screw up that great man's memorial. Still we must be thankful for our anonymous benefactor for sorting out that embarrassment but we still don't know who allowed the thing to humliate and ridicule the memory of Ted in the first place do we? Did anyone look under the sheets and notice that due to a structural fault the statue was considered unsafe and would need to be immediatey dismantled and recast or other face saving excuse. Time to look forward I think, a new breed or professionalism is in town.

No, are your's linked to your own delusions of grandeur?

Quite and I don't care if he did bring in England's most famous player at the time.

Are you watching Mr Pardew? I only saw him shake one old fan's hand and at the same time looked like he couldn't get away quick enough before acknowledging the crowd. Ex-Saints manager buys ticket - couldn't make it up.

Not buying to many prawn sandwiches at the moment then Dune?