Nineteen Canteen

It's not just about what you did during one snapshot in the past it's ensuirng that consistent and positive contribution is maintained long after an individual's glory days and a recognition that the club is more important than your own personal agenda. Le Tissier did not IMO cover himself in glory allowing Pinnacle to allegedly trade off his reputation and unquestionable good nature.

Indeed. Hopefully Mr Liebherr will start sowing the seeds of change.

I agree with that assessment of the situation completely but that does not preclude me from voicing an opinion and no doubt those of opposing views when decisions are made in the future which may rankle them. This theory that McMenemy demands respect is simply wrong. Had he conducted himself in the role of a true diplomat and arbitrator focusing solely on the club itself as oppose to taking sides and rising above the ugliness of the past 10 or so years, then I agree he would have demanded and deserved respect. IMO McMenemy had his own agenda as much as Askham, Lowe, Crouch. Wilde and the rest instead of being the club's elder statesman a far sighted and balanced individual above and beyond reproach.

For the record I have never doubted McMenemy's contribution to our club during his tenure as manager. IMO what is open to much debate is the way he has acted after he retired from management when he should have become this club's next Ted Bates. I have never heard or read of one fan making a critical comment about Ted Bates but I am not alone in my dislike of how McMenemy has conducted himself since he left as manager of this club. So I disgree with your view that McMenemy deserves a free seat for his contribution to the club as that contribution after his time as manager has not always been as positive and supportive as it should have been as the 'club's ambassador elect' IMO. In fact in these changing times it's difficult to find anyone to match Ted Bates's commitment and good grace. On top of all this what sort of message are we sending out if the disgraced Lundekvam is honoured with a seat in the directors box?

The community care worker couldn't help laughing, 'OK Grandad, you're Lawrie McMenemy and I'm the Duke of Edinburgh'.

Due to staff shortages Care in the Community had started to use convicted offenders as part of their community service to accompany their clients on their occassional day out.

Claus: Thanks Lawrie, I was just going to claim my bus fare.

Premiership fans? I assume he means the ones who will only come and watch premier league opponents or is he expecting average crowds of 25k and more for league games this season?

I don't know I see McMenemy was in the Directors box. Do they sell tickets for that area?

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My memory is very poor especially compared to yours as you are never wrong and know everything except the meaning of the word magnanimity. Please see my response above to Derry about my opinion and apparently he has similar views with regard to SISA of which Chorley is a proud member as I understand. IMO they come across as an unsavoury bunch of characters and it wouldn't take a huge leap of faith to assume they were fully in the mix of the hooligan era and everything that went on at that time to shame the ordinary fan. The way they communicate gives me the impression they are not in harmony with todays family focussed (amongst others) approach. Last season I had a bloke stand behind me and my young nephew and in his frustration he let out a couple of expletives and then tapped me on the shoulder and apologised. It wasn't necessary but that is the era we are in and IMO I don't sense the SISA crew are in line with that more friendly approach. I may be wrong as it's an opinion and unlike you, sometimes I can be off the mark hence the debate and questions to help my understanding. Why do you post on here? Its certainly never to enhance your understanding and experience. Are you Johnny Bognor in disguise and just keen to tell us how much you know as you both share a very self-congratulatory tone and so far I've not been able to fathom why that is.

Derry, I agree but have only seen or heard them on the TV and radio. During the period of administration and immediately post the Swiss takeover two characters called Foley and O'Callaghan were IMO an embarassment to the club and IMO the vast majority of Saints fans. I passed comment on Foley's act back in April but O'Callaghan's crass comment about our new owner was like he was audtioning for the next Guy Ritchie/Vinne Jones film. I can't remember his exact comment but when asked his thoughts on Mr Liebherr it was something like this: 'Well it's nice to have an owner with a bit of wedge in his pocket' Surprised he didn't finish the sentence with 'governer'. I couldn't believe it and thought Saints had suddenly moved to the 1960's ganglands of Mile End and the Old Kent Road. IMO SISA are as far removed from the modern day supporter as the Krays are from cyber criminals. They are a complete anachronism and IMO have their roots and beliefs firmly planted in football's darkest days in the 70's and 80's when what went on off the pitch was more important than what went on it. Why do these people get the airtime when they are clearly a minority?

No I don't know for certain and that's the problem and neither am I making assumptions. I listen to the media and read what get's said in the papers as we all do but it's a fool who simply takes everything at face value. Unless it's been answered elsewhere I would like to know if Crouch was an unconditional benefactor or if funds were given with terms attached. Shouldn't be to difficult ot prove if anyone so desired but personally I couldn't care less as I prefer to keep an open an mind and concentrate on the future as Crouch is history IMO.

Wasn't embarrassing for me Um . Why? Do you profess to know everything and forgotten nothing? I am most happy for you if thats the case but clearly pointless any of us ever debating anything with you as you have all the answers. With regards to Chorley I have no idea what you are talking about but I doubt he is as he has a wife who I think is of West Indian descent? I don't know for certain as it's something I remember reading on here but IMO that does not excuse some of Chorley's alleged dismeanours from the past. The whole SISA bunch IMO come across as a pretty unsavoury bunch compared to the Saints Trust but again just an opinion you understand.

Or worse. However, the winds of change are strong and despite what they tell you many on here always want to bring you back to the old guard debate. Some are never ready for that leap of faith.

My views on Crouch have not changed. I did not hear Fry's interview so can't comment but I often bail out some of my family by putting my hand in my pocket but I always want it back when they have it or something done in return. Giving unconditionally? Is that not the reserve of Christmas, Birthdays, Holidays, Bar mitzvah's and anonymous charitable donations.

No but perhaps it proves one thing - the views on this forum are not necessarily reflected in the wider Saints community and perhaps the new takeover is making fans realise just how bad things had become and how badly change was needed to break from the shackles of our past but outdated glories. Time many on here broke from their cocoon and matamorphosed into a bright and brilliant future. Admittedly Vectis you will be more moth than red admiral but at least you will see the light even if we won't open the window, just yet. Sotonjoe is rattling your shackles, ask him for the key and join the new world Vectis.

BTW Vectis if you would like to list all the good things he has done over the years that could be deemed selfless and without personal agenda then I am ready to listen before Q & A.

Vectis, IMO Crouch is a fan and at times one that is more interested in shameless self-promotion but one whose ego did not match his credibility as an astute individual ready to take this club forward and the tough decisions that it required. It is just an opinion but explain to me why it was important for individuals who dontated in excess of £1000 post administration to have their names in the programme and on the website? Why did the Echo latch onto Crouch's contributions? In any event not the personal style of a benefactor I would like to align myself with and thankfully no longer one I will have to worry about. Liebharr and his team have raised the bar to another level entirely and TFFT. I wish Crouch well for the good of his employees but beyond that glad that he is just a supporter like the rest of us and look forward to seeing him in one of the many public car parks on match days.

Committed suicide and perhaps we should be asking ourselves why? The guy entered football at a time when racism was even more rife in football and had to cope with bullying and ridicule over something none of us have any control over - our sexuality. We are what we are Um and I guess with Justin Fashanu he got to a stage where the joke went to far and life became to difficult. I have trouble Um recollecting events in my not so distant personal life so hardly surprising I can't remember the tragic circumstances of a player whose passing was I suspect as much to do with the way he was treated as it was trying to overcome a lack of self-acceptance no doubt drilled into him by stereotypical individuals like yourself.

LOL! My concern is that although a good idea in theory after the initial rush to go and visit the place it would become as cobwebbed as the goal McGoldrick used to practice his penalties and BWP used for target practice.

One where the fans don't get to influence the decision.

'Is Pardew a keegan in disguise'? What's a keegan? Until I know I can't tell you if he is in disguise or not. My guess is not. HTH

No you're right, probably not my most efficacious post.

Don't drink, but had a 6 hour round trip to Essex this evening courtesy of M25 hell and about a litre of Red Bull to keep me awake from the sheer boredom and now can't sleep and probably thinking gibberish. I will have another look and let you know.