MarkSFC

Good. You clueless ****

Lallana, Walcott, Bale, Oxlade, Shaw, all "progressed to the first team" when the first team was playing at a lower level, League One, Championship of fighting to stay in the Premier League. Despite our "current form) our teams level of performance and standard is now the highest it has been for a very long time, and the goal of the club is to move regularly into the top 6. By definition the standard required to get into the first team squad let alone the team is higher than ever (excluding early 80's) ad as such players need to better than the players mentioned at the same age....extremely difficult if not impossible. Some on here have mentioned the statement by Les Reed regarding not sending players out on loan and at the time it was the right stance, now as the club has improved and players need to be better as mentioned to break through, our internal process does not do everything needed and so a loan is needed. Look at Stephens and Turnbull, rated by many as the next ones coming through but they are not good enough to play even at Championship level. They need a bit more time. The reality is though that very few of the top 6 teams produce players who at 19-22 are coveted by the top 6 teams or are playing regularly for them, they inevitably buy them from lesser clubs who's system has allowed for the specific development players need from 18-22 and that is playing regular first team football against older men and not their peers. Arsenal have a reputation for developing players when in fact they buy players in the 18-22 age group and turn them into decent players (or not...). Currently we are in between being able to produce decent 18-22 and needing to buy 18-22 year old. I anticipate the next few years we will be needing to buy more 20-23 year old than those who come through our system to play for us. We are more likely with the current 18-22s to produce decent low level Premiership or Championship standard players which is still a positive. The players who shine early are generally those who develop physically quicker - they have maximised their "strength window" and or their "speed window" in earlier year and so stand out. Once players get to 17/18 they have missed these windows and so development in these areas are slower or even static and it is then more about the sport specific skill set, and learning consistency. They key to getting high class 18-22 year olds is more to do with what happens at 11-16 than 17-20 or older and the rate of improvement will be seen in 17-20 if 11-16 has been excellent. One point of this is that there seems to of been some changes at lower level academy over the last couple of years so maybe this has been the problem, but I do not think that one first manager is necessarily better at producing the youth than any other they are merely the beneficiary of the academy development. Pardew and Adkins were lucky we were competing lower down, Poch got lucky with Chambers even though its clear he moved too soon in his development, and Koeman is unlucky. I doubt we will see a "youngster break though" for a couple of years....Slattery perhaps, maybe Little. Until then we will see players go out on loan and be sold to lower level teams. We've had a great cycle over the last 5-6 years, a 2-3 year lull is almost inevitable.

Moyes would be a the long term manager I think we need in the fact that he has had a go at the big job, been abroad and not been successful albeit probably wasnt given the time he deserved. Given the fact he stayed at Everton for a decade suggests that is his natural inclination - to stay somewhere for quite a while. Although the club seems set up to be able to handle a new manager (and staff) every 2-3 years I think that can only work in a short time and when the club is making bigger steps up year on year as oppossed to where we are now where improvements are merely a place or two and a cup run. In this scenario stability is far better for a club of our size and budget. Going for Howe may be good but if he moves from Bournemouth to us I would think he would be doing it because his ambition lies higher. Mourinho / Benitez would never come here. Adkins is just not good enough. Its strange actually that as good as we have been at producing excellent players and a significant number of players who have forged good professional careers we do not seem to have anyone who is "ours" who would be good enough to manage us. Monk, NO! I think this next few months if RK is not willing to sign an extension - I would love him too, but you know Barcelona and Holland will always be in the background - we should get Moyes in the summer and give him 5 years.

Whilst I get the whole "sustainable model" approach I do think that we went backwards over the summer because we seemed to go for quantity over quality. VVD and Clasie (they will both be very good) are the exceptions. Cedric, Martina, Juanmi are just squad fillers and not great at that. We will never know the real story behind the scenes and never know exactly who we target but when your club has sold 4 players for 20-25m and another 2 for 12-16 the lack of any signing up towards the 20m is basically short changing the fans. I dont expect 15-20m signing in January but if we do not sign a couple in that region in the summer we will be heading back down to The Championship because everyone else around our size are doing so/will likely do so. The numbers sound big and in literal terms they are but they are all relevant to the income which significantly increase next year. I think most Saints fans would agree that Wjineldum for 15m is a steal and if he was in a better team he would be even more effective. Its clear that Wanyama and Mane will be off in the summer and we should get near to 50m the pair. I would be very disappointed if that does not buy 3-4 players rather than 6-7. What we need this month is Austin and Townsend. But I'm not hopeful.......

What part of not good enough to play for Boro makes anyone think he is anywhere near our squad let alone starting. The obsession with "homegrown" over talent is amusing; I'm sure many would rather we had 11 homegrown players in the team every week even if that menat League 2.

Calander year 11th http://http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/arsenal-top-chelsea-eighth-and-watford-survive-the-2015-premier-league-table-by-calendar-year-a3146491.html

Excellent post, I was thinking something similar before reading this so thanks for saving me sme time and probably putting it in a better way. It will not be a season to season success for us but as long as the Academy continues to produce every 2-4 years we will get a couple gems, get the enjoyment for a while and then make the money and so it continues. Its tough to see all these players we produce move on to other clubs but who can blame them really - we all would - we should take pride in that we have a club who is doing things the correct way. As long as we stay in the Premier league for decades to come then that is real success.

Last January we needed a new striker as we only had Long, Tadic, Pelle and Mane. Currently we only have Mane Long and Tadic. We didnt buy anyone and we faded to seventh albeit a great position. Koeman has stated this week that he will only sign a striker if at the end of this coming week it looks like Pelle (and JRod to a lesser degree) are not going to get back very quickly. He has also said this week that despite the 8-0, 6-0, 4-0 wins even last season as well as this we do not score enough or consistently enough. Last season we had a fantastic "back 7" (Forster, Bertrand, Fonte, Alderwield, Clyne, Morgan and Wanyama) and for many reasons we only currently have 3 of them in the side. The effect of the change has been significant since the start of the season because despite what happened last season new players do not always gel that quickly, especially not a whole unit like that. With this is mind, last season we were the best defensive unit so the lack of goals was not as important, however this season we are letting in almost twice as many therefore the lack of goals has a much bigger impact. The team though are in a lot of patches still playing good attractive football but without the goals, the pressure mounts but also this seems to prove to me that its not in the midfield/defensive "back 7" tat needs help its the front 4. So if Koeman/the club (whoever, its all the same in the end) commit the same error as last season then we really will be in trouble. We did get Djuricic and the winger (I forget his name!!) but they had little impact. We need to look to sign someone who can come straight in, hard of course but we need to do it and then balance the books in the summer by getting rid of Wanyama, Yoshida, Cedric, Juanmi, JWP and go again. This window will tell us alot about Koeman and alot about the club.

Koeman has said in his press conference that depending on the fitness of Pelle and JRod we may sign a striker but is not after any other positions as he's happy with everyone. Not sure whether that's a slight dent in his judgement or a clever public backing of his team!

Get rid of VW, looks lost, and seems to be out of position far too much. Get in Austin, Townsend and another CM. Or even another CB and see whether VVD can be DCM. Get Byram in.

I don't think Romeu is a CB. Just sign two!

Here's a radical thought....Virgil Van Dyjk. Has the tackling ability, passing range and clearly has a good shot on him. Morgan never scored many, I this lad could. Easier and better all round to move him forward and get another CB (or two actually!)

I think a big part of RKs comments was aimed at the players. He's clearly not happy with our recent first half performances (Bournemouth apart) and as he said the lack of consistency over individual games. I think the we need to spend money was a message to both Les and the players, as in we do really need probably a couple of decent players - Striker and CM - plus maybe another RB. The job of the manager is to win games, it is not to manage "the project" that is the club's responsibility. It's unlikely that we will ever become a regular top 6 club but he odd occasion once in a while will be great, but it's important that the club remain a top 10 club year on year and to be competitive in cups. If this I print for some fans then they need to blame sky because they have made the Premier League boring in terms of the teams who challenge for the league.

I'm not sure that its wrong but its definitely selective and inconsistent. A minute's silence is respectful but yet gain, selective solidarity.

Who cares!!! I met Garry Monk many years ago when he was a player (in the loosest sense) at Saints, late in the night / Sunday morning after we had lost at home 1-0 to Sunderland. He was splashing the £50 chips in Grosvenor like there was no tomorrow and was incredibly obnoxious and was clearly hanging on the coat tails of Kevin Davies, BT, and Claus who were all there. Was a Championship standard defender at best but seems to have a superiority complex. I could be wrong of course and he might turn into a great manager......I won't hold my breath. Like in his playing days he is getting an element of fame because of what others do or have done to help him in the position he is...he got lucky with the team he inherited but as he has had time...Swansea have got worse. mmmmm!!!!

R.I.P. Mike. Sad news. I wasn't a mate but met him over the years at games and even in Sydney watching the Ashes in 2002. A passionate guy who clearly loved The Saints.

Be happy if he signed a long term contract with release clause for Holland post 2018 WC or Barcelona anytime.

I do not think he was as bad as some are making out on Sunday but he is not skilful enough to make the difference when you come up against a defensive unit like West Broms. This means he's not good enough to start every game. His main skill that needs serious improvement is his shooting; now that IS poor. If he can sort that out and it's almost certainly more a mental obstacle than a technical one, then he will have a chance of making it with us, otherwise I think he will be gone in 18 months. Clasie will be interesting when he finally gets going and will take the pressure off JWP.

As his Saints contract runs until July 2017 he may as well sign an extension to 2018 at least because the next Dutch National Team manager will surely get a deal until the World Cup in 2018. Mind you the way they are just now they probably won't qualify so perhaps 2017 is about right for Ronald to take over!! Probably all depends on our progress too. Assuming he does go in 17 or 18 I would like to see us go for Eddie Howe if he has kept Bournemouth up in that time.

can't wait for this game....first away game for 2 seasons and a first visit to The Hawthorns. Going with my Saints supporting mate who lives up there and his WBA mates, so should be fun in the pub before and after the game.

So....does last nights horrendous display highlight the need for three decent signings - One each in defence, midfield and attack? Are we just going through a bad run of it with injuries? Will VVD or A.N. Other(s) still want to come here without European football? Did we have signings lined up based on qualifying for the group stage? Discuss!!!

Yes. You may be of the opinion that it's a lot of money but in the world of football it really is not especially when we sold nearly £40m of players. It would not be unreasonable to think that our budget is c.£30m on average per summer given all the TV money (excluding player sales). If Clyne and Morgan had stayed 2-3 players would of been sufficient in a normal year but as we are in Europe an additional 1-2 squad fillers were clearly necessary. Martina and Juanmi seem to be those and Steklenburg is obviously just temporry so doesn't count (he would be in the contingency category) as does Caulker for the same reason; although I think he's going to be a very important player this season and hopefully become permanent next summer (or even January like Bertrand). Clasie and Romeu have effectively replaced Morgan between them and Soares Clyne. VVD or which ever CB eventually arrives is the replacement for Toby in terms of numbers if not necessarily quality - but time will tell! Therefore so far this summer we have spent approximately £20-22m on squad, loans, and replacements leaving £15m+ surplus from sales. Add the perceived and not unrealistic £30n budget mentioned and there you get why I expect three more purchase for £30-45m both interns of quality and quantity reasons. Wages will not effect this assumption.

We are on the verge of repeating the errors of summer 2003 and the surrounding years of the Lowe run years where a) we missed an opportunity to attract higher quality players post European qualification in2003 and b) spending money on squad fillers and subsequently upping numbers but lowering the overall effective quality of the team. Earlier in the summer I thought the signings of Juanmi Soares Caulker and Stek were good and then Clasie was positive but because I honestly expected another 3 quality signings each in the 10-15m region. This may of course still happen but we are leaving it right. Assuming Victor stays I still think we need 3 players, a CB of quality ( this appears to be VVD) an attack minded midfielder and an out and out striker (ideally Austin) to put some real pressure on Pelle. If VW is ax then we need 4...that's a lot of business to get done in 6 days, two of which are match days and one a bank holiday! I know that doesn't really matter but I think it highlights the pressure I think Les Reed,the club and RK are under right now to make sure this opportunity is not squandered and history repeats itself.

I agree they are not playing to last seasons high standards but they are still quality players and so they will return to form much sooner than lower level players. The Europa league has this reputation for effecting teams in the first part of the season and I don't think it has much to do with the number of games but rather the fact that teams have to get competitive a week or two sooner and have a shorter time in pre season building unity, shape and rhythm before getting competitive. Koeman has hinted at lack of time on the training pitch and I think this is the problem he needs to sort out....plus a couple more attack minded players perhaps!

I'll admit to not seeing him play other than some clips but he clearly has some skills that Saints like/want (supposedly) and although it can be argued that in a poor league such as Scotland he should stand out, it can also be argued that in these lower levels it's harder to develop your potential fully. It seems like he will need to up his concentration levels and consistency and although the Premier League is a big step from the Scottish league, Wanyama managed it comfortably and so there is no reason to think VVD couldn't. Also he will have better players all around him and more protection. I would not be surprised if within a few months Caulker and VVD will be our regular partnership.