sadoldgit

Re your fourth comment Duckie, suddenly you are displaying previously unseen levels of sensitivy. Could it be that you are finally becoming “woke” 😳? As for the PM having a second job as an MP, as you are fully aware, the two are inexorably linked. We are not talking about him about doing something completely different from his day job, but then you know that they are two different things don’t you and you are just looking to create an argument where one doesn’t exist.

Typical Duckie, just trying to find an argument with anyone left of Attila the Hun. The Prime Minister’s position is slightly different to other MP’s, wouldn’t you agree? Silly question really, of course you will find a reason to disagree. If it were Labour or LibDem MPs involved you would be all over it like a rash. if “bad behaviour” involves breaking the rules why should the voters decide? Why aren’t they just sacked as they would be in any other job. The problem is that you don’t have to do the job very well to keep it. Harold Shipman would probably have been elected in my constituency if he was a Tory. “How the world is” is shit, so why not change it, or try and change it? Trouble is, this shit world suits you just fine doesn’t it Duckie.

Good question. I don’t know about comparable pay to other civil service jobs but MPs do have their salaries reviewed by an independent body and would assume they factor this stuff in. I don’t think that the basic pay of £82k plus very healthy expenses is too bad. I also don’t think that not having a guaranteed job for life is a problem. No one does and they know what they are signing up for. Many people sign up for short term contracts not knowing exactly is going to happen at the end of them. The issue of people voting for a part rather than a person is a big problem. There are many poor performing MPs who get elected in safe seats. Unlike HGV drivers and nurses, there is never a shortage of people putting themselves forward as candidates. The pay and conditions can’t be that bad. There is something seriously wrong with the system if people have got enough time on their hands to do two or more jobs. Either they are not doing what they are supposed to be doing or they don’t have enough work to do, in which case, we need to ensure that they are doing what they are supposed to be doing or give them bigger constituencies and more work. I appreciate that many non ministerial MPs sit on lots of committees etc and that there is more to the job than just sitting in the chamber yelling here here now and again, but, for me, an MP’s job needs to be full time and well structured so that the people who vote for them get value for money. I have signed contracts before that prevent me from taking on another job. Why should this be any different? As for getting a better calibre of MP if you pay more, I don’t think that is necessarily the case. You are more likely to get someone who is just doing the job for the money. I would rather pay a reasonable wage (which I think they get) and appoint candidates who want to do it because they want to serve the electorate and want to make a difference. Parliament is full of career politicians. I want my MP to care about improving the lives of their constituents and not be more concerned with their bank balances and how they can use their positions to make more money. The world is changing rapidly, we could do with a complete overhaul of or electoral processes and they way we run our Parliament so that it is a fit system for world which is very different now to the one this Parliament was designed for. I believe that his staff take care of his constituency matters so it isn’t an issue. They probably make a better job of it too.

I appreciate that Badger, but surely it goes with the territory? No one has a job for life these days. If they do their job well then perhaps they will keep it for a long time. I’m sure many of them use their position to forge links that could be useful later down the line should they lose their seat. If they tighten up the rules, as I believe they should, I don’t think that there will be a shortage of candidates still wanting to stand. Perhaps it will encourage a better standard of candidate, those who want to do it to make a difference for their constituents rather than those who see it is a money making opportunity. I’m not holding my breath! 😉

They are two different jobs so why do both? An MP should be an MP. A health professional should be a health professional. If they want to be an MP they should be prepared to give up their job (any job) and dedicate their time as an MP. Am I missing something? Is it a part time position? I want my MP to be working at their job full time. What is the basic pay? £70/80k a year? Seems reasonable for a full time job to me.

Even the Express and Mail have turned on him today. Hopefully even his staunchest supporters can now see what a poor PM he is and the Teflon PM will finally find that some of this stuff is starting to stick. This whole business of second and more jobs stinks. If they need more money perhaps being an MP is not for them. How can you represent your constituency properly from the West Indies? They are paid to represent the people. To then top up their wages by taking money from corporations and businesses to further their aims in Parliament might be within the rules but it is not right and the rules need to be changed. During the Covid pandemic we have seen a rise in cronyism in an unprecedented way with huge contract going out to “mates” without tender. Now that the Tory press have decided it’s an issue perhaps, finally, something will be done about it. Removing this incompetent PM would be a start.

Yes I am confused as I am not saying that talking to friends is the way forward?Talking to anybody about your problems has to be good but if you are having suicidal thoughts you really, ultimately, need to be talking to your doctor or mental health professionals.Your friends may offer support but they can’t prescribe meds or provide you with the access to the therapy that is best for your condition. I think we have probably confused each other and are on the same page.

No Delldays, he was sacked because he was a poor manager. Ralph hasn’t been sacked because he isn’t a poor manager. A knee jerk reaction is when you make a poor decisions quickly. It was the right decision to sack Hughes. It was the right decision to stick with Ralph.

I obviously can’t speak for others, but in my case I spent of great deal of time “manning up” and forcing myself to do things when it was a real struggle. The trouble is over a period of time the draining effect on me got so much that I hit a brick wall and my system just shut down. Like anything, when something is wrong and you keep forcing eventually there is a good chance that it will break. It is easier to fix something and to get it working properly again before it is completely broken. We are not the best judges of these matters, that is why it is important to get professional help if you start to feel that things are getting out of control. Unless you buddy is a mental health expert, there is no way that he can tell what is happening to you and what you need to do to deal with it. As I have said before so many family members and friends have not recognised how close their loved ones were to taking their own lives. It’s a tough enough job for a professional but at least they have the skill set required. The man up thing needs to be put into perspective. If you are worried about asking a girl you fancy to dance in case she says no, your mate is entitled to tell you to man up and do it. If you are terrified of flying and your mate says man up and get on the plane, that really isn’t helpful and you need proper help for your phobia. The phobic reactions are there for a reason, they are meant to help protect us. When phobic reactions kick in in unhelpful situations, clearly there is a problem and manning up isn’t the proper long term solution.

It is relevant to the thread. We are talking about how men have been taught not to express their emotions and are sometimes ridiculed when they do.( Whatever others think, the Liverpool result clearly meant a great deal to him).

Pathetic? I shed a tear when Rickie scored with his first touch of the ball for England and when MLT scored the winner in his last game against Arsenal. Is that pathetic? I just saw it as a huge release of emotion and it obviously meant a lot to him. I find it refreshing to have a manger who wants to win so badly, I’m sure you can remember managers slagged off for not seeming to care. Still, we all have different opinions.

Exactly. There are plenty of men who go to the pub, go fishing, go to the football and have a perfectly good social life who end up as one of these statistics. As with drug, alcohol,gambling additions etc, half the battle is admitting to yourself that you have a problem. Once you cross that barrier you can work out the best way for you to deal with it. Other people can provide support but this is serious stuff and by far the best way forward is to go and see a doctor in the first instance, but professional help is a must. As with any many medical conditions the earlier the condition is identified, the better the prognosis. Once you get to the point where you are having suicidal thoughts you are way past the point of sorting it out over a pint in the pub with your mate. As men we are constantly told that men don’t cry (just look at the grief Ralph got when he shed some tears after beating Liverpool). We are supposed to be strong, be problem solvers, be providers. The expression “man up” tells you all you need to know. Frankly it is bollocks and we need to accept that we are all human, fallible and sometimes cannot cope with what life throws at us. There is absolutely no shame in admitting that and getting help. When I was first prescribed with anti depressants the doctor said “don’t worry, half the country are on them”. This was some time ago and I am sure the figure is higher now. I don’t think that we should get too bogged down in why more men take their own lives as mental health issues are a problem for both sexes and we need to be doing more to raise awareness so that everyone is aware of the warning signs and what to do so that, hopefully, less people will find themselves in a position where their MH is spiralling out of control to the extent that they cannot function as normal.

It doesn’t make me happy at all GM, I was just reacting to what you said and the way that you said it. I am happy thank you. You might recall on the Saints List we used to refer to each other as sad old gits when we were in our forties as a joke. I decided to use the name as I thought it was funny. I do buy people in pubs drinks. If you have a pop at people don’t expect them to roll over and say tickle my tummy. For someone who has dealt with this shit I am still surprised that you feel it is ok to post callous posts and tell people that people had it worse in the war and to man up. Some advice, if my posts trigger you, don’t read them. Also it is probably not the best idea to come on to a thread like this and start digging at people. Perhaps keep that for your Trump threads? You know, the ones that don’t suck any oxygen out of the room 🙄 Having read your post again it occurs to me that you haven’t understood where my posts are coming from. I have recounted my experiences from many years ago when I went through a particular hard time in my life. By about 2005/6 I had managed to get myself back on track and apart from the odd blip have been ok since. I have posted my experiences on here in the hope that a) it will help others realise that they are not alone b) it will encourage those struggling to speak up and get help and c) show that if you get help and stick at it there is light at the end of the tunnel. I’m not sure what you find in this to make you so angry and aggressive but having had a go at me for not helping, you have missed the point entirely. By the way, we were in the pub together a few years back with several members of the Saints List. I seem to recall you not buying me a drink, you miserable bastard! 😉

Even if you thought stuff like that, what would possess you to post callous stuff like that on a thread like this? It demonstrates zero, empathy, sympathy, compassion and understanding and is if no help at all to anyone struggling with MH issues. He is clearly not a candidate for the Samaritans! I was sorry to read about your mate Egg. Such a hard thing to live with. Not that it will help but over 6000 people took their own lives in the UK last year. It is the biggest killer of men under the age of 45 and the most at risk group are males between 45 and 49. The rate is higher amongst men than women and that is possibly because women are better at building support groups and talking about their problems. As demonstrated here, you never know what you will get when you open up to a group of men. Most will be supportive but there will always be some who, for whatever reasons, won’t be. As has been said, we are all wired differently and can cope with some things better than others. We all have trigger points and will all find certain things harder than others to cope with. It was a constant thing in The Priory that people would say they were embarrassed for being weak. The councillors always picked this up and said no, you are in here because you were too strong and pushed yourself beyond the point where you needed just to step back and take time out. Yes, there are some things that you can just “man up” and deal with and you can get through it, but prolonged MH stresses need to be dealt with properly and that takes time. There is no band aid for anxiety, depression and stress. The best thing we can do is to try and deal with the damage of the long term effects of these conditions by catching them early, before people become suicidal - that is why talking about these issues is so important. We are told nowadays that we need to “be kind”. A better and more effective message is probably “just don’t be an a-hole”.

Your quote saying that it is like setting fire to the car your Dad bought you shows how little you understand of this awful condition. If you were remotely capable and rational of course you wouldn’t do that, but we aren’t talking about people who are in a capable, rational place. Just before I took an overdose I “rationalised” that my kids were very young and therefore would not miss me. I could find no reason to keep in living. There are always reasons not to do it of course, but when you are in that place it is very hard to see them or to think that you could get back there eventually. It really annoys me when people talk about it as if you feel like you have a rational choice. It really is not a selfish act either. I felt like things would be better all round if I was not here. I couldn’t cope and didn’t want to be a burden. This was 21 years ago and I still look back and find it hard to understand who that person was. I feel bad that I allowed things to go that far, but in truth I had no control at the time and just felt like I was being carried along by feelings beyond my ability to deal with them.Perhaps you should spend time with survivors of suicide attempts. You might get over this archaic view that have.

Often people have been worn down by long periods of stress, anxiety or whatever and it doesn’t take much to push them over the edge. We are not just talking about suicide here. There are many other debilitating effects of MH problems. Insomnia, brain fog and memory loss, mood swings - all kinds of things that make daily life difficult. We are not really talking about minor blips here, although they need dealing with, but deep rooted MH issues which go well beyond just “manning up”. It is soul destroying when you feel like you are in a deep hole and can’t see a way out. It is easy for someone who is relatively sorted to say just do this or that, but believe me, when your system is beaten down to a very low level, just getting out of bed in the morning can become a major effort.

Sad new. CBT has certainly been useful for me and others I know. With anyone is suffering MH problems please go and see your doctor. Don’t hold back either. We tend to hold back and play the seriousness down, just be open and honest about what you are feeling. Open up to your partner, mate, family member. It helps to talk about it and when you start, if you find the right listener, it can be a huge help. if you are have issues at work speak to your line manager, HR or someone in a position to help you. Don’t suffer in silence. None of us like to admit we are struggling. It is seen as a sign of weakness we think. The worse thing you can do is bottle it up and hope it will go away. It won’t. It will probably just get worse the longer you let it fester. We hear a lot about being kind. Start by being kind to yourself!

You are perfectly entitled to your view Egg, but my view is that MH issues do not happen in a vacuum ( as I am sure you appreciate) and if you are going to deal with the issue you need to look at causes of anxiety, depression and stress. Social media has been cited as the reason for many suicides. For every suicide there are probably hundreds, maybe thousands of people who are struggling to get through the day. I don’t see how we can talk about MH issues without accepting that this platform (and others like it) contribute to the problems.

Hurling the occasional insult and systematic bullying/abuse are two very different things Whelk. if I pigeonhole people as Tommy Robinson sympathisers that is because, when I criticise his beliefs, they attack me. It is not a massive assumption that they do so because they share his views, although it is entirely possible that they are just looking for an opportunity to have a go I guess (which is more of an issue). I agree that social media has amplified problems we face in society. Instead of bullying/abusing in the playground, pub, workplace, home etc people can now bully/abuse complete strangers anywhere with an internet connection. Kids aren’t just competing with their peer groups, they are now competing with and being judged by people all over the world. Much more needs to be done to control the behaviour of people who are just intent of dishing out crap to others on a regular basis from the anonymity behind their keyboards. I agree that if you stick your head up over the parapet you are likely to get shot at, but arguing, disagreement and criticism are one thing, systematic bullying and constant tracking and abuse another. Sad to see the old “pull yourself together” and “they had it worse in the war” nonsense from the mid last century trotted out again. Fortunately most people have evolved and understand that, if it were just that simple, it would be much easier to deal with. I do agree with GM on one point though, other people can’t fix you, you can only fix yourself. What other people can do though is to supply the support and tools required to help you sort yourself out. Meds can help stabilised the condition but will not fix it. It takes time and effort from the person with MH issues and it also takes sympathy, understanding and patience of those who are involved with MH issues. Having been on both sides I understand how hard it is to do both and I’m sure I am not alone here in this. We used to shoot people for cowardice. We now understand that these people were suffering from PTS disorder and instead of being put up against a wall, needed psychiatric help. Given all of our technological advances, humans are still very basic animals and the flight/fight mechanisms have not evolved since we stood on two feet. A chemical response that would kick in on the odd occasion we were faced with a sabre tooth tiger now kicks in tens if not hundreds of times a day, flooding our system with chemicals that stimulate or flight/fight responses and leave our nervous systems overloaded. Our internal systems are just not built for modern life and the constant stresses manifest themselves both in mental illness and physical illness. However, it is easier to feel sympathy for someone with a plaster cast on or a bald head through chemo than it is for someone going through MH issues where the outward signs are probably virtually non existent. How many times do you hear grieving parents say that they didn’t know that their child was unhappy enough to take their own life? Sadly what seems to be happening now is a backlash in some quarters about MH issues. You saw it happen in the Olympics and in tennis where competitors have pulled out because of their MH and a faction (let’s call them the Piers Morgan brigade as he is a big offender) pile in a give them flak. We have made a start but clearly have a long way to go. Sorry Whelk, what was supposed to be a quick reply ended up a pile of waffle! As you say, too much time on my hands!

You’re all heart aren’t you GM, and as usual, show that you are absolutely clueless. “Real issues” are relative to the individual, whether it is living through air raids, or trying to deal with an abusive marriage. Stress anxiety and depression affect the mind and body in the same way, no matter what the stimulus. If you had an ounce of empathy, understanding or sympathy you would know that.

No Whelk, I don’t have a thick skin which is why I spent a great deal of time in therapy. But ask yourself this, do I come on here regularly and abuse people? Do the people who abuse me abuse others on a regular basis too? If I was being abused by regular moderate posters I would have a problem with that. Social media presents a huge problem with people’s mental health. Anonymity means that it is very easy for people to abuse others with no accountability so it is no wonder that this is a massive problem. I think we see here that the same exchanges probably wouldn’t happen if you were speaking to people in a pub. Many threads end up with abuse flying around and usually from the same people. It is not just football forums where this happens. I have seen the same things happen on different forums and you can guarantee that there will always be a small number of posters who will be looking to cause friction. Let’s call it for what it is, bullying. You say that I bring some of it on myself. I am not sure that anyone deserves to be bullied. My wife went through a period of serious MH problems not so long ago. She worked for a couple of people we knew from our local and had no problems for 3 years but then she started to get bullied by her boss to the extent that she ended up being signed off and on meds. She is still on meds but fortunately has found employment with people who appreciate her and her work and her self esteem is gradually growing again. It should not be the case that people you disagree with you abuse. Abuse needs to be dealt with and people need to understand that there are ways of communicating with people that don’t involve ripping them to pieces and belittling them.

Good call Lighthouse. I came on here to start a MH thread myself and agree that (hopefully) it will not degenerate into the usual slagging matches.

Sorry to hear that one of your kids has MH problems Egg. It is a huge worry but it sounds like they are getting the treatment they need. I hope that it all goes well. 👍

Sorry for the delay in responding Whelk but I had run out of posts by the time I read this. I think I have gone into my mental health issues in depth before so won’t bore people with that all again but in the summer of 2000 I had what we used to call, in the good old days, a nervous breakdown. The NHS were very poor at dealing with this stuff back then (they aren’t much better now to be perfectly honest) so we soldiered on with meds and very basic therapy until I hit another wall in late 2003. Fortunately I was sent to see the company doctor when I was signed off sick for a week and he diagnosed that I was a “smiling” depressive - someone who covers up their depressive state by making light of things - and suggested that I go and see them at the Priory under the company insurance policy. They treat people with anxiety, depression and stress as well as those with addictions and eating disorders. It was very helpful. They use mostly Cognitive Behavial Therapy - changing the way you feel by changing the way you think - in group sessions as well as teaching you about the effects of anxiety depression and stress on the mind and body. It was more like going to college than going to therapy. I was treated as an outpatient as were most of us but did spend a week or two as an inpatient when they changed my meds so that they could monitor the effects. I spent my 50th birthday in The Priory! It is hugely expensive and eventually the insurance money ran out so I was back under the NHS again after about 6 months or so apart from the occasional follow up visit. I gave up on the NHS and found various cheaper private alternatives, including hypnotherapy. I think I did various therapy sessions from between 2000 and 2005 and did a top up hypnotherapy course about 3 years ago as my anxiety attacks were coming back when driving on motorways. I actually think that everybody should have an annual mental health check but the NHS couldn’t cope with the amount of work that would generate. It would also help if schools, colleges and universities could add in sessions about CBT and other basic therapies. We are becoming more aware about the effects that anxiety, depression and stress have on the mind and body but there is still a very long way to go. It used to get swept under the carpet and bottled up which is the worse thing you can do when suffering from mental health problems. At least people are more open about it now and are encouraged to talk about it more. I would imagine that most of us either know someone or of someone who has taken their own life because they could no longer cope. It should never get that far. I was very fortunate that I was able to find the help I needed but those solely reliant on the NHS really struggle through lack of funding and resources.

And the winner is 😂. What a surprise.