sadoldgit

Put simply, democracy is the rule of the people for the people by the people. In the early days of democracy in Ancient Greece most of “the people” didn’t have a vote. Socrates himself said that democracy was nearly the worst kind of rule at the time. Fortunately, things have changed over the years, although it wasn’t that long ago historically that woman were denied that right here and there is still a discussion about at what age here you are entitled to have a vote. But just how democratic is democracy? The word “undemocratic” is thrown around a lot when we aren’t happy with the way a vote goes. Clearly if 100% of the people vote for something, it works very well. Not so well if the vote is split 51%/49%. Is it really “democratic” if “the will of the people” is determined by just one person? Clearly it is not “the will of the people”, it is the will of most people. And that is the problem with democracy. The will of many people is discounted completely. The thorny issue of PR naturally raises its head after every vote. Labour have a massive majority with only 35% of the electorate having voted for them. People are left frustrated because they feel their vote counts for nothing in a safe seat area or if they are voting for any one of the smaller parties. On the election thread we have some calling for PR and some supporting the FPTP system. Personally I am in favour of a system that incorporates PR as it is more “democratic” than being governed totally by a party that the majority haven’t voted for. We had a fudged referendum on a form of PR that was voted against, but surely it is time to have a proper, grown up, look at the system and to find a way that gives the people a proportionate voice in Parliament? There are good arguments for and against PR. There are different types of PR, so which is best if we do go down that route? I believe an independent Royal commission should be set up to look at the way we are governed. The UK in 2024 is a very different place to the one where the current voting system was introduced. Neither the Tories nor Labour have an interest in changing the status quo, and why should they if it works for them? It doesn’t work for millions of voters whose vote doesn’t give them a voice though. So then, PR - yes or no? And if yes, what type of PR should we look to adopt?

An interesting alternative view on the career of Gareth Southgate as England manager. (Don’t shoot the messenger!) https://amp.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/jul/05/euro-2024-england-gareth-southate-successful-manager-failure

Chris Patten (google him if you are a youngster) has just dissed the current Tory leading members on the BBC. Another old Tory bemoaning the lurch to the right.

Pepe doing well for an old’un

The French shooting hasn’t gotten any better.

How much skill does it take to pick fruit? The kind that was rotting on the vines when all of the EU workers went home? I’m sure you know we struggle to get people to do the more menial tasks, like wait tables too. We need both skilled and unskilled migrants.

That’s the kind of game that would send Gareth Southgate to therapy!

Plenty of drama at the death

How did Germany not score?

What a cross!

The ball hit him but they give those now I thought?

Cracking game. Two well matched teams going for it.

I think it is more than a small number of people on the internet but no, it is not everyone, but then it doesn’t have to be everyone to make it a problem does it?

Thanks for taking the time to reply. I think that Starmer is sincere when he says he will do more to tackle the the trafficking gangs and to deal with the massive backlog of asylum applications which successive Tory governments have allowed to mount. I agree about unchecked immigration as we clearly need migrants. It has to be managed better. As you say, it is an issue across Europe and it’s something that Europe needs to tackle as a whole, I don’t think we should be looking to do it in isolation. A big problem I have with it is the way that the right are demonising them. They are human beings after all. They have been used as a political football. As a country we should be better than that.

So there has been no sneering at people who supported Corbyn? No sneering at Lefties or Pinkoes? You yourself sneer at Muslims. It happens all the time. If someone votes for a party because they are sneered at, you have to question their thought process. Don’t you think that there are serious reasons why people sneer at the likes of Trump and Putin?

How am I challenging people’s rights in a democracy? People are asked why they way they voted all the time. It’s a fair question and they don’t have to respond if they don’t want to do they? Yes, only a Reform voter can tell us why they voted for Reform, which is why I asked a Reform voter why he voted for Reform. It is his choice if he answers the question or not. If you have listened to any kind of media today questions have been asked all day long how people have voted and why. If you aren’t interested just ignore it.

Indeed, do they follow them further right, or do they look to be a more centre right party. Certainly people like Braverman and Badenoch would like to go further right. Do they have any centrists left? Rory Stewart would have made a good leader but he and others are long gone. The country is centrist by nature which is why Starmer put so much time and energy into moving away from the Corbyn agenda. If the Tory’s end up going toe to toe with Reform over appealing to harder right voters they could find themselves out of power for a very long time. (Good to see the Chuckle Brothers laughing at something other than the destruction of Gaza)

Aren’t we? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57848761.amp

Look on the bright side, it gives you a target. Who are rooting for as next Tory leader, still Kemi Badenoch?

You give it large in here every day but don’t have the balls to tell us who you support politically. Your choice of course but it does make you look a bit of a wuss. As for my posts, as I have said before, if you don’t like them, don’t read them. Be honest, you just seek them out so that you can have a go at me. You are a grown man obsessed with a complete stranger on an internet forum. How do you think your family would feel if they know how you spend your days? What’s the problem? Not getting enough attention from you CoT? Tell me something, there have been far more posts slagging off our managers than a politician, but you never slag off those who do it. Plenty of people here slag off Farage but you ignore them. You seriously need to have a think about your behaviour mate.

I’m not knocking democracy. I do wonder about why some people think voting for certain people is a good idea though. The millions who vote for Trump being a prime example. Do the people of Clacton think that Farage is going to spend any of his time dealing with their issues? Perhaps they are happy that they are being used for his own ambitions, which is fine if they are.

If there are no changes it is a pretty solid front bench. They certainly have their work cut out for them but give the impression that they will hit the ground running.

I’ll give you credit for owning up to it. There are some who don’t (out of shame I expect). Out of interest, why? Doesn’t it bother you that the leader is a fanboy of Trump, Putin and the likes of Andrew Tate and you must have seen some of the awful people standing as candidates.

But not Truss 😲 4 constituencies have sent these people to Parliament - Farage, Tice, Lowe & 30p Lee Just let that sink in for a moment.

Better than speaking out of her arse?