Part 1 of a few - Dave Jones: No Smoke, No Fire

[Master Bates]

In todays Echo, interesting reading, past team bondings include shooting, spa's and go-karting.

 

First off he thanks the fans who treated him superbly throughout the difficult period.

 

Dave Jones still likes Lowe, but felt let down by him. Lowe wanted Jones to find players for Glenn Hoddle.

 

Tomorrows edition - What I really thought of Matt Le Tiss.

 

When I get home, i'll try and type some bits from the article.

 

If you live in Southampton, go buy it

Edited 30 July, 2009 by Master Bates

[eurosaint]

In todays Echo, interesting reading, past team bondings include shooting, spa's and go-karting.

 

First off he thanks the fans who treated him superbly throughout the difficult period.

 

Dave Jones still likes Lowe, but felt let down by him. Lowe wanted Jones to find players for Glenn Hoddle.

 

Tomorrows edition - What I really thought of Matt Le Tiss.

 

When I get home, i'll try and type some bits from the article.

 

If you live in Southampton, go buy it

 

You on commission from the Echo ??

Let them all go buy the book !!

[Master Bates]

You on commission from the Echo ??

Let them all go buy the book !!

 

Saying that, there's also the chance to win a copy of the book (5 available).

[John B]

Saying that, there's also the chance to win a copy of the book (5 available).

 

They are available on AMAZON

 

£12.50 including postage

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/1848185138/ref=sr_1_olp_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1248940899&sr=1-1

[greg_hill]

Sounds interesting and I think I'll have to order a copy of the book. What I found interesting about the DJ case was how it seemed to bring out the worst in people. So many people I knew seemed to have him down as guilty and convicted before the bloke even went to trial. Over and over again I heard people say "Why would so many people say something if it never happened?" which was totally ignorant of the way the case unfolded and of people in general.

 

Then I remember one time I was defending DK after he was found innocent with a guy at work who still refused to accept he was innocent. The guy said: "Who will want to employ him now?" , I replied: "He's already got a job at Wolves, actually."

Other guy looked at the league table and said "Yeh, but look how badly Wolves are doing!".

 

Just goes to show how illogical and vindictive some people really are.

 

Anyway, as I said, the book looks good. Hope I get to read it.

[Reib80]

Saw Dave Jones in West Quay shopping centre with his daughters on Sunday. I guess he still has a place down here.

[Pancake]

Dave Jones ex manager, or the current Board Member?

[bridge too far]

Saw Dave Jones in West Quay shopping centre with his daughters on Sunday. I guess he still has a place down here.

 

I'm sure I heard him on the radio a couple of weeks ago saying he still loves Southampton and that one of his children still lives here.

[Gemmel]

Sounds interesting and I think I'll have to order a copy of the book. What I found interesting about the DJ case was how it seemed to bring out the worst in people. So many people I knew seemed to have him down as guilty and convicted before the bloke even went to trial. Over and over again I heard people say "Why would so many people say something if it never happened?" which was totally ignorant of the way the case unfolded and of people in general.

 

Then I remember one time I was defending DK after he was found innocent with a guy at work who still refused to accept he was innocent. The guy said: "Who will want to employ him now?" , I replied: "He's already got a job at Wolves, actually."

Other guy looked at the league table and said "Yeh, but look how badly Wolves are doing!".

 

Just goes to show how illogical and vindictive some people really are.

 

Anyway, as I said, the book looks good. Hope I get to read it.

 

These types of cases are horrible, but my overiding memory was something quite different - Infact the opposite.

 

Obviously there were those who went down the lines of No Smoke etc etc, but most people I knew were far from convinced he was guilty. Leeds fans gave a rendition of "Wheres your ball boys gone" and Saints fans replied by singing DJ's name. Fergie asked DJ to walk out at old trafford with him, (I'm assuming that was our first away game once the story broke) and when the court case finally came, it was dismissed out of hand by the judge................ I think DJ is the only person i can think of who has walked away from these types of charges without so much as a dot on his character (And quite rightly so).

 

We do tend to judge people without reason and we are all guilty of "No smoke without fire" mentality, but with Dave Jones, that never really showed and he had and still has the footballing worlds respect.

[JibMcdo]

Dave Jones ex manager, or the current Board Member?

 

duh

[greg_hill]

These types of cases are horrible, but my overiding memory was something quite different - Infact the opposite.

 

Obviously there were those who went down the lines of No Smoke etc etc, but most people I knew were far from convinced he was guilty. Leeds fans gave a rendition of "Wheres your ball boys gone" and Saints fans replied by singing DJ's name. Fergie asked DJ to walk out at old trafford with him, (I'm assuming that was our first away game once the story broke) and when the court case finally came, it was dismissed out of hand by the judge................ I think DJ is the only person i can think of who has walked away from these types of charges without so much as a dot on his character (And quite rightly so).

 

We do tend to judge people without reason and we are all guilty of "No smoke without fire" mentality, but with Dave Jones, that never really showed and he had and still has the footballing worlds respect.

 

Yeh I think Saints fans and those in football were supportive of him, I was thinking more about Joe Public .

[Barney Trubble]

I spoke to DJ afterone of the fans forums at the Dell, not long after the story had broke[Just before the Everton game I think]. I was taken in by his resolve and even though he was dignified, in what he said, I could just sense the anger in his tone.

 

SFC had no option but to suspend him, it's just the way it is when an allegation like this surfaces, the safeguarding of children is simply not compromised.

 

DJ would have been in contact with younger people at the club, both directly and indirectly, so to suspend him was par course and a necessary evil if you like. I still don't understand what people found so wrong in the way the club suspended him as he was given support by Lowe all through the case, it was just that Lowe and Jones were both caught between a rock and a hard place.

 

DJ is well respected in footballing circles and is a man who has the utmost respect from his peers and I can't see him using the book as an opportunity to sling mud, he's just too dignified - i'm sure he is candid in his opinions though as ever.

 

I didn't know he had a book out until I saw this thread, I will definitely go out and buy it now.

[obelisk]

I've read the book and can only congratulate Dave Jones for his resolve in fighting back against what has turned into a modern day witch hunt.

 

I ask myself what on earth goes through the minds of those such as plod, the CPS and the child abuse industry in general. They seem to see paedos lurking everywhere which perhaps tells us more about the perversions inside their own minds actually.

 

There have been many more people without the funds and support that Dave had who have been ruined by this sort of nonsense. So look out because you could be next.

[Fan The Flames]

I spoke to DJ afterone of the fans forums at the Dell, not long after the story had broke[Just before the Everton game I think]. I was taken in by his resolve and even though he was dignified, in what he said, I could just sense the anger in his tone.

 

SFC had no option but to suspend him, it's just the way it is when an allegation like this surfaces, the safeguarding of children is simply not compromised.

 

DJ would have been in contact with younger people at the club, both directly and indirectly, so to suspend him was par course and a necessary evil if you like. I still don't understand what people found so wrong in the way the club suspended him as he was given support by Lowe all through the case, it was just that Lowe and Jones were both caught between a rock and a hard place.

 

DJ is well respected in footballing circles and is a man who has the utmost respect from his peers and I can't see him using the book as an opportunity to sling mud, he's just too dignified - i'm sure he is candid in his opinions though as ever.

 

I didn't know he had a book out until I saw this thread, I will definitely go out and buy it now.

 

Don't agree with any of that, SFC could have stood up to the charges with contempt they deserved and the unfolding events would have shown that they were right. They could have put messures in place to distance DJ from any of the youth team activities but to suspend him was well over the top imho.

[Fan The Flames]

In country where some ones DNA found at a rape scene can not be used because of a technicality yet with no evidence other than the statements of a couple of criminals someone is hauled off to court and almost ruined.

[Leicestersaint]

I've read the book and can only congratulate Dave Jones for his resolve in fighting back against what has turned into a modern day witch hunt.

 

I ask myself what on earth goes through the minds of those such as plod, the CPS and the child abuse industry in general. They seem to see paedos lurking everywhere which perhaps tells us more about the perversions inside their own minds actually.

 

There have been many more people without the funds and support that Dave had who have been ruined by this sort of nonsense. So look out because you could be next.

 

Yes i totally agree. I know a bit about the Liverpool case that Dj was caught up in - a friend of mine was also arrested on the basis of a completely false allegation and it was neraly two years before it was alldropped - and my friend is a woman.

 

The police involved in this case were on a nice little number and managed to keep the whole thing going for many years - the police and the CPS come out of this case very very badly indeed.

[skintsaint]

**** manager, decent bloke - might have to go and order it.

 

the only decent thing to come out of it was we got Hoddle.

 

anyway...

 

[Gemmel]

Don't agree with any of that, SFC could have stood up to the charges with contempt they deserved and the unfolding events would have shown that they were right. They could have put messures in place to distance DJ from any of the youth team activities but to suspend him was well over the top imho.

 

Completely disagree (As much as i like Dave Jones). It was an impossible situation for all concerned. You could'nt give the job the effort and concentration needed, whilst having to fight against those sort of charges and the reality was we were 2nd from bottom and in dreadful form...... he could well have been sacked anyway. Whilst lowe made many mistakes, i really don't think this was one of them and actually dealt with the situation very well.

 

The cause for blame, lie s firmly at the feet of the CPS and Police force for ever letting it get that far.

[Torres]

**** manager, decent bloke - might have to go and order it.

 

the only decent thing to come out of it was we got Hoddle.

 

anyway...

 

 

Tut tut.

[Torres]

the child abuse industry in general.

 

It's classed as an Industry? :confused:

[obelisk]

It's classed as an Industry? :confused:

I have seen it referred to like that. It's a reference to the amount of money being made by those whipping up the hysteria. Some seem to have made nice little empires on the back of it.

[Master Bates]

Saw Dave Jones in West Quay shopping centre with his daughters on Sunday. I guess he still has a place down here.

 

Was it not his book signing day?

 

http://saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showpost.php?p=393503&postcount=1

[Foxstone]

Completely disagree (As much as i like Dave Jones). It was an impossible situation for all concerned. You could'nt give the job the effort and concentration needed, whilst having to fight against those sort of charges and the reality was we were 2nd from bottom and in dreadful form...... he could well have been sacked anyway. Whilst lowe made many mistakes, i really don't think this was one of them and actually dealt with the situation very well.

 

The cause for blame, lie s firmly at the feet of the CPS and Police force for ever letting it get that far.

 

Agree.

 

The management of this sorry episode was in fact one of Lowe's better ones!

[Master Bates]

Agree.

 

The management of this sorry episode was in fact one of Lowe's better ones!

 

Not if you read the article it wasn't. Go on, go buy the echo if you're down South and have a read, or go buy the book.

[Fan The Flames]

Completely disagree (As much as i like Dave Jones). It was an impossible situation for all concerned. You could'nt give the job the effort and concentration needed, whilst having to fight against those sort of charges and the reality was we were 2nd from bottom and in dreadful form...... he could well have been sacked anyway. Whilst lowe made many mistakes, i really don't think this was one of them and actually dealt with the situation very well.

 

The cause for blame, lie s firmly at the feet of the CPS and Police force for ever letting it get that far.

 

I understand it would have been a brave decision to stand by DJ, but I really don't think suspension was the only course of action. He always stated that the case would not have distracted from his job as he wanted to throw himself in work as a distraction from the case.

 

This wasn't an accusation of a recent event, he wasn't caught somewhere he shouldn't have been, there wasn't any strange events he couldn't explain. He had been around football and youth teams for a long time with out any sort of trouble of this nature or even any rumours. So there was every reason to believe him and so there was reason to stand by him.

 

No Lowe didn't make a mistake but he took the safest option. Maybe if we were not 2nd from bottom and maybe if Hoddle wasn't available Lowe may have been braver.

 

Did we suspend Moran & Wright, a question as I can't remember how it was resolved.

[saint_stevo]

buy the book=lining Jones' pockets.

 

No thanks

[Barney Trubble]

Don't agree with any of that, SFC could have stood up to the charges with contempt they deserved and the unfolding events would have shown that they were right. They could have put messures in place to distance DJ from any of the youth team activities but to suspend him was well over the top imho.

 

When it comes to the protection of children or vulnerable adults , I don't think it's wise to continue with the 'business as usual' stance, especially on such a serious charge. I can see how hindsight would lead you to form that conclusion though. I don't think you can play 'chance' with the severity of the alleged charges and it would be a bit blase to await the "unfolding events'. I totally see your point though, as I'd like to think we'd all get the support and backing from our employers/friends on such a serious charge but I don't see how it could have been arranged on a practical level.

 

If you put measures in to distance DJ from the youth team, as you have suggested, then you are affecting his ability to do his job in an effective manner, so Lowe wouldn't have been doing him any favours at all.

 

In my opinion, any allegation of child abuse should not be treated with contempt, it's a sad reflection on modern society though that this was even in the public domain before it had been fully investigated, also bear in mind the pressure that was placed on the club from higher authorities, such as the Premier League.

 

I fail to see how DJ could have been in a suitable mental state to undertake his duties, with such a serious charge hanging over him. I would have to doubt the judgement of any employee who worked for me too. I think the club had a duty of care to to DJ and felt that it was in his best interests, regardless of if DJ felt he was capable of dealing with it as normal.

 

That aside and on a a football note, DJ was skating on thin ice anyway, the results had been poor and he was already under immense pressure to be replaced. I think it was only a question of time before he would have been given the sack anyway but we'll never get to know that now as fete intervened.

[Larrylove]

buy the book=lining Jones' pockets.

 

No thanks

 

Why exactly?