This tiredness thing

[Chez]

70 minutes gone and the side (especially midfield) looked out on its feet. Morgan, Mellis, Hammond and Lallana had all run themselves into the ground and I respect the work they put in last night.

 

But this failure to last the course happened a lot last season and we have come unstuck again this season several times, including Millwall and Yoevil. Naturally you would think it was simply down to a lack of fitness. Maybe the players we have (and also in the past) lack that long distance engine required, or maybe, and this is my point, the amount of running they are being asked to do is a large part of the problem?

 

The 4-3-3 formation saw Lallana playing up front (and doing a bloody lot of running across the line to create space) but also chasing opposing players back into our own final third. Hammond and Morgan spent a lot of energy closing down wide players after their keeper had set them off on counter attacks, and Mellis made quite a few (mostly) unseen runs beyond Lambert.

 

I'm not sure of the solution here as well all want to see us coming out strong straight from the off and attacking constantly. I personally love the shirt pass and move football we offered last night, but that takes it out of midfielders especislly if it breaks down in the final third and you have to turn around and chase back.

[Wes Tender]

How much of it was physical tiredness and how much mental? It seemed to me that whilst they were ahead, there was plenty of life in them and then when BR equalised, they just almost gave up trying. There is nothing to suggest that BR's players were more fit than ours, but they had the determination to believe that if they kept at it, they would get something from the match and so it proved. It is like two long distance runners, where one is leading into the final straight, but sees a rival closing fast on him. He kicks for the line and realises that the tank is almost empty. He senses defeat and the rival sniffs the prospect of gold with a little more effort and suddenly the adrenalin gives him the extra energy to prevail.

 

We are lacking belief and the confidence to propel us on and losing like that in the last minute will not have helped at all.

[Chez]

How much of it was physical tiredness and how much mental? It seemed to me that whilst they were ahead, there was plenty of life in them and then when BR equalised, they just almost gave up trying. There is nothing to suggest that BR's players were more fit than ours, but they had the determination to believe that if they kept at it, they would get something from the match and so it proved. It is like two long distance runners, where one is leading into the final straight, but sees a rival closing fast on him. He kicks for the line and realises that the tank is almost empty. He senses defeat and the rival sniffs the prospect of gold with a little more effort and suddenly the adrenalin gives him the extra energy to prevail.

 

We are lacking belief and the confidence to propel us on and losing like that in the last minute will not have helped at all.

 

I thought we were tiring before they equalised. In fact I suggested to a mate that we make a sub and revert to 4-4-2 as we were far too open. Unfortunately Pardew shut the gate after the hose had bolted.

[S-Clarke]

I personally think its mental fatigue, especially from the likes of Adam/Morgan/James - who struggled to see out games last year, and again are the same this year.

 

It doesn't matter if you have the hammonds/harding/jadi's in the team - if you're still carrying 3 players in key positions for the last 20mins of games, you'll struggle.

 

That's what we need to address...the only way to address it is to either replace them for now, or get some wins on the bounce to get their confidence up. (which means scoring to make it 3-1/4-1 when we’re on top…!)

 

They're still damaged goods from last year IMO.

[St Will]

I personally think its mental fatigue, especially from the likes of Adam/Morgan/James - who struggled to see out games last year, and again are the same this year.

 

Mental fatigue comes as a result of physical fatigue. I think it's just because they're young and probably aren't in their prime yet (fitness wise). I'm not sure exactly, but don't you not reach your fitness peaks until your early to mid twenties?

[Hamwic]

I did not see the match but I do wonder whether some of this malaise has to do with the quality of captaincy. Over many years of watching Saints I have been amazed at how quiet the players are throughout the game. It sometimes needs someone on the pitch to rouse those around him to up their performance either to prevent a defeat or, better still, to extend the lead and kill the game off.

[Andyb1]

I'm tired, does that count? Tired of being ****

[eurosaint]

I thought we were tiring before they equalised. In fact I suggested to a mate that we make a sub and revert to 4-4-2 as we were far too open. Unfortunately Pardew shut the gate after the hose had bolted.

 

He should have used his nozzle !!

[Legod Third Coming]

I did not see the match but I do wonder whether some of this malaise has to do with the quality of captaincy. Over many years of watching Saints I have been amazed at how quiet the players are throughout the game. It sometimes needs someone on the pitch to rouse those around him to up their performance either to prevent a defeat or, better still, to extend the lead and kill the game off.

 

You make a very good point here.

 

There was a period around the time they equalised last night where we did nothing but play ping-pong football for about ten minutes.

 

I think Kelvin should have slowed the game and rolled the ball out more to allow us:

 

a) a breather

b) to regain some composure and confidence on the ball

c) to furstrate Rovers with some decent posession.

 

I don't think it was rousing people per se, but some better quality thinking on the park for sure.

[trousers]

Thinking out loud....what size is our pitch these days? Wider than most? Narrower than most? Average?

 

Perhaps the curent size isn't suited to our style of play and the players get more knackered as a result?

 

Dunno. Clutching at straws territory here....

[St Will]

Thinking out loud....what size is our pitch these days? Wider than most? Narrower than most? Average?

 

Perhaps the curent size isn't suited to our style of play and the players get more knackered as a result?

 

Dunno. Clutching at straws territory here....

 

Well you might have come up with something.....

 

Didn't Stoke recently narrow their pitch against Man U? I wonder if we narrowed our pitch down, it might suit our narrow play and restrict other teams bombing down the wings all the time?

[bungle]

Well you might have come up with something.....

 

Didn't Stoke recently narrow their pitch against Man U? I wonder if we narrowed our pitch down, it might suit our narrow play and restrict other teams bombing down the wings all the time?

 

I was under the impression that you had to use the same size pitch all season, but I could be wrong?

[St Will]

I was under the impression that you had to use the same size pitch all season, but I could be wrong?

 

No I don't think so....Stoke did it last week, and I think I remember when WGS was manager, we went up to Rotherham in the cup and they did it there against us.

[sandwichsaint]

I was under the impression that you had to use the same size pitch all season, but I could be wrong?

 

I thought this too, I think it was something the PL bought in a while ago that clubs had to register their pitch dimension and stick to it for the whole season.

 

Certainly used to be the case you could chop and change and Malcolm Allison at Man City was one of the original proponents of this tactic, setting up the pitch week to week according to who City were playing.

 

Samething that crossed my mind reading this thread: If we have no effective right back, no effective wingers, and we persist in playing an ugly varient of 4-5-1 or 4-3-3 it might be a jolly useful tactic to shave 4 or 5m off each side of the pitch.

 

Mind you it would lead to some pretty ugly football too, but desperate times and all that ...

[Rebel]

more thought less running around would be a good start!

 

we certainly didn't help ourselves - or our energy levels - by using the long ball from the back when it went to 2-2

 

it was crying out for a bit of 'keep possession' football - and playing it out from the back

 

Davis' distribution of the ball is awful - whether it be kicking or throwing it out. There were numerous times in the second half when he should have passed the ball out short to Harding or James - openning up the pitch and working the ball forward through midfield

 

there were also numerous times we should have switched the play from right to left - particularly when James was taking throw-ins in our own half in the second half and no one seemed to want the ball

 

it was crying out for the ball to be thrown back to Trotman or Davis - rather than aimlessly forward - and then played out wide to the left

 

bringing Holmes on instead of Mills would have given us some width, as well as an attacking threat down the left

 

although I have a feeling Mills was supposed to do this and cover Harding - but I think he completely forgot his instructions from AP and drfited into the middle like a headles chicken

[Chez]

I personally think its mental fatigue, especially from the likes of Adam/Morgan/James - who struggled to see out games last year, and again are the same this year.

 

It doesn't matter if you have the hammonds/harding/jadi's in the team - if you're still carrying 3 players in key positions for the last 20mins of games, you'll struggle.

 

That's what we need to address...the only way to address it is to either replace them for now, or get some wins on the bounce to get their confidence up. (which means scoring to make it 3-1/4-1 when we’re on top…!)

 

They're still damaged goods from last year IMO.

 

Mellis and Hammond tired as well though.

[VectisSaint]

I thought this too, I think it was something the PL bought in a while ago that clubs had to register their pitch dimension and stick to it for the whole season.

As we are not in the PL, their rules mean diddly squat. I don't believe there is any rule in the FL that prevents the size of the pitch being changed, but I could be wrong. We narrowed our pitch considerably last season (or maybe the season before), always thought that was a bad move but I guess if you are trying to play through the middle then it might help and also narrows the gaps between defenders which should help when your defenders are not that good. But if we are going to play with width then the pitch needs to be extended again.

 

The real problem though I am sure is the fitness issue. Not the explosive fitness, but the stamina. Most pro footballers can run around for 90 minutes, but without stamina training a la WGS they become mentally fatigued in the last 10-15 minutes and make mistakes. Our home grown players have never had a proper preseason with this sort of training (Lallana and James are too young for the WGS regime). On top of that Hammond and Jaidi also did not have a proper preseason. Morgan too, and he has probably never had this sort of thing in France, and I would suggest Papa is the same at Fiorentina, French and Italian styles of play are not so physically demanding). So that leaves about 4 outfield players who may have the physical stamina required, Trotman, Hammond, Lambert and possibly Mellis. I think it is difficult to carry 5 or 6 players in the last 10 minutes or so, this is why AP bemoans the lack of a preseason. It is nothing to do with the players gelling etc. They know each other well enough and seem to have a good rapport but they do lack fitness, something that has been an issue at SFC starting with Burley and continuing with JP and MW. I bet things will be different next season if Dean Wilkins (and AP) are allowed to see things through and not be drummed out by those who want an instant fix.