Kit for JPT final

[Scummer]

Presumably we'll be in red and white for the final. Have Saints ever played in a final in their home kit? We've worn our away kit for all the games in living memory haven't we?

[The9]

Presumably we'll be in red and white for the final. Have Saints ever played in a final in their home kit? We've worn our away kit for all the games in living memory haven't we?

 

Depends how old you are.

[Scummer]

Depends how old you are.

 

I was 110 last week.

[The9]

I was 110 last week.

 

Wiki has our Finals as follows :

 

FA Cup 1900 - v Bury - had our stripes by then, they'd just started wearing white shirts.

FA Cup 1902 - v Sheff Utd - they also played in red/white stripes by then, we changed to white shirts for BOTH matches.

http://www.historicalkits.co.uk/English_Football_League/FA_Cup_Finals/1900-1909.html

FA Cup 1976 - yellow

FA Cup 2003 - yellow

League Cup 1979 - yellow

ZDS Final 1992 - blue flame monstrosity

Anglo-Italian Cup 1976 - two legged final v Napoli, stripes at home for sure, and no reason to change away.

Caledonian Cup 1976 - final v Rangers at Ibrox, would be surprised if we played in anything other than stripes.

Texaco Cup 1975 - played Newcastle over two legs, would have been in stripes at home at least.

Trofeo Ciudad de Vigo 1983 - triangular tournament v Celta Vigo and Dinamo Bucharest - stripes v Celta at a guess, that was the final match too - we clash with Dinamo but no idea who wore what in that one.

 

That was half an hour's "entertainment"... I've left the Ted Bates Trophy out .

 

So in short, maybe. We've almost certainly played in one FA Cup Final in stripes (1900), but before most peoples' time, and we've played two-legged finals of minor competitions in stripes before. The JPT Final is probably on a par with the Anglo-Italian.

Edited 2 March, 2010 by The9

[100%Red&White]

Not exactly a final but we played Liverpool in (the all new) Red & White stripes for the Charity Shield, Wembley '76.

[david in sweden]

I've got an older book on Saints 1885-1987 which shows a photo from the SF v. Notts Forest with our player wearing stripes, presumably Saints wore the same for the 1902 losing final v. Sheff Utd, who I recall used to play in blue/white stripes ?

Q: When were change strips introduced ? Was it compulsory from the early days ..or ?

 

As a lad I had an old book with club shirts in and (as I recall) there were very few other clubs who had red striped shirts (Sunderland, Sheff Utd ?) although Saints used to have a pre-season Stripes v.Whites practice game, so that the white shirt may have been our " change strip" even back in the 1930's.

 

However, most interesting was long shot of the pitch showing a (half) heart-shaped 6 yard box (!)...and a line across the pitch (roughly as current penalty area) - but from touchline to touchline. Presumably, to conform to the "old offside law " later changed in the 1920's.

[Saint_clark]

Red and white, barmy army!

[Badger]

Wiki has our Finals as follows :

 

FA Cup 1900 - v Bury - had our stripes by then, they'd just started wearing white shirts.

FA Cup 1902 - v Sheff Utd - they also played in red/white stripes by then, who knows who changed ?

FA Cup 1976 - yellow

FA Cup 2003 - yellow

League Cup 1979 - yellow

JDS Final 1992 - blue flame monstrosity

Anglo-Italian Cup 1976 - two legged final v Napoli, stripes at home for sure, and no reason to change away.

Caledonian Cup 1976 - final v Rangers at Ibrox, would be surprised if we played in anything other than stripes.

Texaco Cup 1975 - played Newcastle over two legs, would have been in stripes at home at least.

Trofeo Ciudad de Vigo 1983 - triangular tournament v Celta Vigo and Dinamo Bucharest - stripes v Celta at a guess, that was the final match too - we clash with Dinamo but no idea who wore what in that one.

 

That was half an hour's "entertainment"... I've left the Ted Bates Trophy out .

 

.

 

Some excellent research there.

 

You've left out the Daily Express 5-a-side tournament.

 

I have a recollection that we won it c1973 whilst wearing our amber and black away shirts.

[krissyboy31]

FA Cup 1902 - v Sheff Utd - they also played in red/white stripes by then, who knows who changed ?

This went to a replay, so I would have thought it is safe to assume we played in our home kit for at least one of the matches.

[Ampersound]

We are the away team so I guess we might be in yellow again.

[The9]

I've got an older book on Saints 1885-1987 which shows a photo from the SF v. Notts Forest with our player wearing stripes, presumably Saints wore the same for the 1902 losing final v. Sheff Utd, who I recall used to play in blue/white stripes ?

Q: When were change strips introduced ? Was it compulsory from the early days ..or ?

 

As a lad I had an old book with club shirts in and (as I recall) there were very few other clubs who had red striped shirts (Sunderland, Sheff Utd ?) although Saints used to have a pre-season Stripes v.Whites practice game, so that the white shirt may have been our " change strip" even back in the 1930's.

 

However, most interesting was long shot of the pitch showing a (half) heart-shaped 6 yard box (!)...and a line across the pitch (roughly as current penalty area) - but from touchline to touchline. Presumably, to conform to the "old offside law " later changed in the 1920's.

 

Interesting question. From my recollection the only real rule well into the early 1980s was that one team had to change shirts if they were too similar for the ref to differentiate, and that's obviously been the case for practical purposes since football began.

 

It's only the advent of manufacturing advertising on kits via their logos that hastened the "official" replica industry in the 1970s (as opposed to the "vaguely right colours with a sew-on patch for mum" industry prior to that) and the endless kit changes since replicas took off that have brought in the need for regulation of types and numbers of change kit to be registered and used, and stupid stuff like changing shorts colours, number patches, etc. There were regulations about adverts on tv and ad sizes in the early 80s but nothing much about types or numbers of away kits.

 

I know the Prem now have a rule that each team must register 3 kits and use them at least 6 times a season, and various stuff about ad and logo sizes, number colours, sizes, types allowed and "advice" (ignored) on how often they should change kits, but the number style has only been standard for 12 years and changed 3 seasons ago, the "you must have 3 kits" rule has been in place for about 5 years.

 

Football League have something similar, but both allow specially commissioned exemptions for special causes/occasions (like Spurs and Bolton's 125th/100th anniversary kits).

 

So in short, other than "don't clash" I'm not sure there were proper away kit rules til very recently.

[The9]

I have a recollection that we won it c1973 whilst wearing our amber and black away shirts.

 

For purely personal Newport-based reasons I'd love to see Saints in Amber and Black. :smt041

[bpsaint]

Carlisle have a blue home kit and seem to be selling blue and white merchandise via their website so think its pretty safe to assume we'll be in red and white.

[The9]

This went to a replay, so I would have thought it is safe to assume we played in our home kit for at least one of the matches.

 

This is true, but back in the day there might just have been an agreement for the team with easiest access to a spare set of kit to change.

 

Just found that Wiki has a separate FA Cup Final by year listing...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1899%E2%80%931900_FA_Cup

 

And according to this reference :

http://www.historicalkits.co.uk/English_Football_League/FA_Cup_Finals/1900-1909.html

 

we played in white for the 1902 final BOTH matches.

Edited 2 March, 2010 by The9

[keithd]

League Cup 1979 - yellow

 

thats a bloody good first goal! forgot just how good it was, but i was only 11 and i've drunk beer since then.

 

if there's a better team goal in a league cup final i dont remember it.

[Badger]

Interesting question. From my recollection the only real rule well into the early 1980s was that one team had to change shirts if they were too similar for the ref to differentiate, and that's obviously been the case for practical purposes since football began.

 

It's only the advent of manufacturing advertising on kits via their logos that hastened the "official" replica industry in the 1970s (as opposed to the "vaguely right colours with a sew-on patch for mum" industry prior to that) and the endless kit changes since replicas took off that have brought in the need for regulation of types and numbers of change kit to be registered and used, and stupid stuff like changing shorts colours, number patches, etc. There were regulations about adverts on tv and ad sizes in the early 80s but nothing much about types or numbers of away kits.

 

I know the Prem now have a rule that each team must register 3 kits and use them at least 6 times a season, and various stuff about ad and logo sizes, number colours, sizes, types allowed and "advice" (ignored) on how often they should change kits, but the number style has only been standard for 12 years and changed 3 seasons ago, the "you must have 3 kits" rule has been in place for about 5 years.

 

Football League have something similar, but both allow specially commissioned exemptions for special causes/occasions (like Spurs and Bolton's 125th/100th anniversary kits).

 

So in short, other than "don't clash" I'm not sure there were proper away kit rules til very recently.

 

Thats a good and interesting read.I'm aware of the growth of the 'commercial away kit',but was not aware of the rule - presumably instigated by the kit manufacturers rather than the league - that each kit must be worn 6 times.

 

It always seemed farcical to me that Forest would wear a change strip of white at The Dell,yet Leeds or Spurs felt compelled to change from white to yellow.

[The9]

Hm, here are the Premier League rules - it's only a limit on wearing an away kit and it is that it should not be worn MORE than 8 times (with a few qualifiers) if I'm reading it right :

WARNING - MASSIVE PDF : http://www.premierleague.com/staticFiles/7a/20/0,,12306~139386,00.pdf

SECTION F

PLAYER IDENTIFICATION AND STRIP

(removed the squad number stuff)...

Home and Away Strip

13. Each Club shall have a home Strip and an away Strip which shall be worn by its Players in

League Matches in accordance with the provisions of these Rules.

14. The logo of the League shall appear on each sleeve of both home Strip and away Strip shirts.

15. Neither the home Strip shirt nor the away Strip shirt shall be of a colour or design alike or

similar to the outfits of Match Officials.

16. Not later than 4 weeks before the commencement of each Season each Club shall register its

Strips by submitting to the Secretary Form 9 together with samples of its home Strip, away

Strip and goalkeeper’s Strip complying with these Rules and a brief written description of each

and the Secretary having entered the descriptions in a register will cause the same to be

printed in the handbook of the League.

17. Each Strip submitted for registration in accordance with Rule F.16 shall have on it:

17.1 the shirt number and name of any Player in the Club’s first team squad, displayed as

required by Rule F.7;

17.2 any advertisement for which the approval of the Board is either sought or has already

been given under the provisions of Rule F.28.1.

18. If pursuant to Rule F.16 a Club seeks to register a Strip which does not comply with these

Rules:

18.1 the Board shall give to that Club notice in writing to that effect giving full details of the

changes required to achieve compliance; and

18.2 the Strip in question shall not be worn by that Club’s Players until a further sample has

been submitted to and approved in writing by the Board.

19. Subject to Rule F.20, Strips of the description thus registered shall be worn throughout the

Season immediately following and no changes to it shall be made except with the prior

written permission of the Board.

20. On the occasion of a Club’s last home League Match in any Season an alternative Strip may

be worn provided that:

116

RULES: SECTION F

20.1 at least 7 days’ prior written notice of intention to do so is given to the Secretary and

the Visiting Club together in each case with a sample of the Strip intended to be worn;

20.2 the alternative Strip shall be subsequently registered as the Club’s home or away Strip

for the following Season.

21. Subject to Rules F.20 and F.22, when playing in League Matches the Players of each

participating Club shall wear its home Strip unless the home Strips of the participating Clubs

are alike or similar or are in the opinion of the referee likely to cause confusion in which event

Players of theVisiting Club shall wear its away Strip or a combination of its home Strip and its

away Strip. In the event of any dispute with regard to the Strip to be worn by either Club, the

referee’s decision shall be final.

22. Players of the Visiting Club may wear its away Strip when playing in League Matches provided

that they shall not do so on more than 8 occasions in any Season, including those occasions,

if any, when required to do so by virtue of the foregoing provisions of Rule F.21. For the

avoidance of doubt, nothing in this Rule shall limit the number of occasions a Club may be

required to change its Strip pursuant to Rule F.21.

23. At least 7 days prior to each League Match the Visiting Club shall notify the Home Club on

Form 9A of the Strip it intends its Players (including for the avoidance of doubt its goalkeeper)

to wear. If the Home Club is of the opinion that this is likely to cause confusion it shall

immediately notify the League.

24. Subject to Rule F.20, no Club shall participate in a League Match wearing Strip other than its

registered home Strip or away Strip or a combination of the two except with the prior written

consent of the Board.

Third Strip

25. Each Club may have a third Strip in addition to its home Strip and its away Strip.

26. The provisions of Rules F.14, F.15 and F.16 shall apply to any third Strip as well as to home

Strip and away Strip.

27. A Club’s third Strip may be worn by its Players in League Matches only with the prior written

consent of the Board.

117

RULES: SECTION F

Strip Advertising

28. Provided that:

28.1 the content, design and area of the advertisement is approved by the Board; and

28.2 it complies with the Football Association Rules for the time being in force;

advertising on Strip shall be permitted.

Edited 2 March, 2010 by The9

[John B]

thats a bloody good first goal! forgot just how good it was, but i was only 11 and i've drunk beer since then.

 

if there's a better team goal in a league cup final i dont remember it.

 

It was the last goal I think but looked even better at the time

[OfnPanad]

What about the ZDS Cup in 1994? I went but my memory is playing tricks on me...we played Forest so presumably one of us wore a changed strip?

[Scummer]

What about the ZDS Cup in 1994? I went but my memory is playing tricks on me...we played Forest so presumably one of us wore a changed strip?

 

It was 1992. The9 did mention it, although his typo made it the JDS cup. We wore blue.

[rooney]

The Stripes were on sale in the megastore on Saturday with the words "Johnsons Paint Trophy Final Wembley thereon." After selling these, there is no way we will wear a different strip.

[The9]

It was 1992. The9 did mention it, although his typo made it the JDS cup. We wore blue.

 

Missed that - now edited. Wore the horrible horrible blue flame Admiral kit that lives in a bag in my garage. Ugh.

[The9]

The Stripes were on sale in the megastore on Saturday with the words "Johnsons Paint Trophy Final Wembley thereon." After selling these, there is no way we will wear a different strip.

 

Says on the OS that they'll stick the text on anything for £4.

 

But we are wearing stripes, no-one's suggesting any different.

 

Someone may have to change socks though, Carlisle's were white with red turnovers last time I checked.

[docker-p]

I can't wait to see Saints in proper Red & White stripes at Wembley. In fact I'm taking on wood just thinking about it.

[Scummer]

Missed that - now edited. Wore the horrible horrible blue flame Admiral kit that lives in a bag in my garage. Ugh.

 

I actually quite liked that kit. Although it probably would have been better if we'd worn the yellow version for the final.