Are we breaking even?

[Legod Third Coming]

With our cup runs and average gates of what 22k??

[South City Si]

I think our break-even point was something like 17,000 average attendance at SMS when we still had the mortgage of the stadium, now that debt is cleared it must be alot less.

With our higher attendances we must be very close to break-even point, especially as you said with the cup runs and the merchandise sales that come with it.

[Gemmel]

With our cup runs and average gates of what 22k??

 

Nothing more than guess work, but I would think we are there or there abouts, with player purchases being funded by ML.

 

We do have a very large squad, with a fair few contracts up in the summer. I expect to see the dross & those that are just picking up a wage to move on in the summer as already posted.

 

If we are breaking even, ML's inevestment so far is no more than 15 million, with a very decent squad and one that will only improve. Promotion next season and it is looking like a "Financially" sound investment........ Not many times you hear that in football.

[dubai_phil]

With our cup runs and average gates of what 22k??

 

What an excellent question.

 

This is, without a doubt, the sort of question that should be asked. It is the sort of question that can drive quality debate, that can seek clarification on critical issues and of course can help to inform and educate.

 

With question such as this one, the future of this forum is in safe hands and this should become a benchmark for all the questions of the future to aspire to.

 

My congratulations to you for constructing such an important question, it has without a doubt been the question of the day.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Which is my way of saying - we ain't ever going to find out now we are a Private Company, but is also something I think we should know.

 

Meanhwile I would like to thank the 1974 ish LibDem candidate for Salisbury & South Wiltshire for giving me that marvellous quote. He actually used that in answer to a question and since that day I have held all Politicians in the regard that they deserve. You guys should play Election Bingo and see who else tries that one on

[IamLeGod]

Nothing more than guess work, but I would think we are there or there abouts, with player purchases being funded by ML.

 

We do have a very large squad, with a fair few contracts up in the summer. I expect to see the dross & those that are just picking up a wage to move on in the summer as already posted.

 

If we are breaking even, ML's inevestment so far is no more than 15 million, with a very decent squad and one that will only improve. Promotion next season and it is looking like a "Financially" sound investment........ Not many times you hear that in football.

 

I was under the assumption that our new found "debt free" status came from the lovely Mr. Markus clearing our debts. Debts that were reported to run to a figure of around £27million? Surely making his investment closer to three times the figure you suggested?

 

Not trying to nit-pick or start a row, just that was genuinely my understanding of events.

[Scummer]

I was under the assumption that our new found "debt free" status came from the lovely Mr. Markus clearing our debts. Debts that were reported to run to a figure of around £27million? Surely making his investment closer to three times the figure you suggested?

 

Not trying to nit-pick or start a row, just that was genuinely my understanding of events.

 

I thought he paid around £12M, which cleared the debts as people took a portion of what they were owed.

[Seaford Saint]

What an excellent question.

 

This is, without a doubt, the sort of question that should be asked. It is the sort of question that can drive quality debate, that can seek clarification on critical issues and of course can help to inform and educate.

 

With question such as this one, the future of this forum is in safe hands and this should become a benchmark for all the questions of the future to aspire to.

 

My congratulations to you for constructing such an important question, it has without a doubt been the question of the day.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Which is my way of saying - we ain't ever going to find out now we are a Private Company, but is also something I think we should know.

 

Meanhwile I would like to thank the 1974 ish LibDem candidate for Salisbury & South Wiltshire for giving me that marvellous quote. He actually used that in answer to a question and since that day I have held all Politicians in the regard that they deserve. You guys should play Election Bingo and see who else tries that one on

 

Have you been smokin'?

[dubai_phil]

Have you been smokin'?

 

What down here!

 

Yeah right:-)

 

Jeez it's a month in nick for a peck on the cheek. We'll be wearing Hijabs next.

[Gemmel]

I was under the assumption that our new found "debt free" status came from the lovely Mr. Markus clearing our debts. Debts that were reported to run to a figure of around £27million? Surely making his investment closer to three times the figure you suggested?

 

Not trying to nit-pick or start a row, just that was genuinely my understanding of events.

 

No problem.

All debts were cleared. They totalled 27 million and through the administrators the creditors were willing to accept 13 million as full and final payment. Whether they all got the same % in the pound, i wouldn't know, but ML bought a debt free club for somewhere between 11 & 13 million (The sale of Surman would have to have been reflected in the price)

[IamLeGod]

No problem.

All debts were cleared. They totalled 27 million and through the administrators the creditors were willing to accept 13 million as full and final payment. Whether they all got the same % in the pound, i wouldn't know, but ML bought a debt free club for somewhere between 11 & 13 million (The sale of Surman would have to have been reflected in the price)

 

Meh fair enough. My bad. Please continue

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

What an excellent question.

 

This is, without a doubt, the sort of question that should be asked. It is the sort of question that can drive quality debate, that can seek clarification on critical issues and of course can help to inform and educate.

 

With question such as this one, the future of this forum is in safe hands and this should become a benchmark for all the questions of the future to aspire to.

 

My congratulations to you for constructing such an important question, it has without a doubt been the question of the day.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Which is my way of saying - we ain't ever going to find out now we are a Private Company, but is also something I think we should know.

 

Meanhwile I would like to thank the 1974 ish LibDem candidate for Salisbury & South Wiltshire for giving me that marvellous quote. He actually used that in answer to a question and since that day I have held all Politicians in the regard that they deserve. You guys should play Election Bingo and see who else tries that one on

 

I now hold you in the same regard that you have held all politicians in, i.e. in the regard that you deserve.

[up and away]

Nothing more than guess work, but I would think we are there or there abouts, with player purchases being funded by ML.

 

We do have a very large squad, with a fair few contracts up in the summer. I expect to see the dross & those that are just picking up a wage to move on in the summer as already posted.

 

If we are breaking even, ML's inevestment so far is no more than 15 million, with a very decent squad and one that will only improve. Promotion next season and it is looking like a "Financially" sound investment........ Not many times you hear that in football.

 

Absolutely bonkers. For an investment to be sound you have to compare it against an average return you would get if you invested medium risk in the markets, bonds and lending.

 

When you consider what Markus paid, add on the cost of of completing the transaction, player fees, investment into the infrastructure etc, you are into about £24M. Then you have to compare what that £24M would get you elsewhere with compounding interest in the current market. We have a rough idea of income from season tickets, crowd and special offers. I don't expect our income will be much greater than previously because of the season ticket drop. Cups look a definite bonus, but we have the highest paid squad in this league at present.

 

As an investment it is nowhere near even looking at and losing money by any investors comparison. As a stand alone at present I can see the running costs being comfortably below income. As an interest for Mrkus, it is relatively cheap because of his personal wealth, many others considered as rich would struggle. The longer we stay outside of the Premier, the costlier it gets. When you compare a years difference in getting into the Premier for Markus, that costs a lot of money.

[ludgershallsaint]

We'll still be able to get the annual accounts from Companies House.

[Gemmel]

Absolutely bonkers. For an investment to be sound you have to compare it against an average return you would get if you invested medium risk in the markets, bonds and lending.

 

When you consider what Markus paid, add on the cost of of completing the transaction, player fees, investment into the infrastructure etc, you are into about £24M. Then you have to compare what that £24M would get you elsewhere with compounding interest in the current market. We have a rough idea of income from season tickets, crowd and special offers. I don't expect our income will be much greater than previously because of the season ticket drop. Cups look a definite bonus, but we have the highest paid squad in this league at present.

 

As an investment it is nowhere near even looking at and losing money by any investors comparison. As a stand alone at present I can see the running costs being comfortably below income. As an interest for Mrkus, it is relatively cheap because of his personal wealth, many others considered as rich would struggle. The longer we stay outside of the Premier, the costlier it gets. When you compare a years difference in getting into the Premier for Markus, that costs a lot of money.

 

I am certainly no accountant and as stated, in my original post, it as based on nothing more than guesswork, but given that most of the high earners (With notable exceptions) were shipped out last year and any costs that could be slashed or got rid of were, i would be amazed that (Not including transfer fees as per original post) we are not breaking even or at least very close.

 

The attendances must be higher than the NC or ML predicted, plus a couple of half decent cup runs and televised matches to boot.

 

I don't buy your 24 million, for a start the deal was done within 10 days of lynams lot pulling out and whilst there had oviously been work done prior to that, NC said himself it wasnt much although there was always a genuine interest.

 

We haven't spent that much on players With RL being the most expensive at a million.

I am assuming that the infrastructure costs you are refering to are the expansion plans at Staplewood, which is still in its infancy, so whilst commited to spending, it hasn't happened yet.

 

11 million for the club, 2.5 million player purchases, 500k for registrations / agents fees etc and 1 million for infrastructure costs (Not including Staplewood)

 

There is obvioulsy a lot more to it than that, but far closer than 24 million.... we are not in the prem anymore mate.

 

So for 15 million, the squad, the infrastructure, the land, the fan base etc, still looks like a decent investment to me...... albeit if we are talking in football terms as opposed to locking it away and collecting interest.

[rooney]

We'll still be able to get the annual accounts from Companies House.

 

But only if we know the name of the Limited Company. I seem to recall when Markus took over, an off the shelf company was purchased. If we know that, we might be able to get copies of the accounts, unless the name has been changed which so often happens.

[The Banana Factor]

What down here!

 

Yeah right:-)

 

Jeez it's a month in nick for a peck on the cheek. We'll be wearing Hijabs next.

 

Phil, i cant send PMs cos im a cheap skate, any idea where i can watch Champs League tonight in Dubai.

 

Cheers Gaffer!

[Rational Rich]

But only if we know the name of the Limited Company. I seem to recall when Markus took over, an off the shelf company was purchased. If we know that, we might be able to get copies of the accounts, unless the name has been changed which so often happens.

 

DMWSL 613 LIMITED, Company No. 06951765. Name hasn't been changed yet, registered office at SMS.

 

The trading company is Southampton Football Club Limited.

[sidthesquid]

What an excellent question.

 

This is, without a doubt, the sort of question that should be asked. It is the sort of question that can drive quality debate, that can seek clarification on critical issues and of course can help to inform and educate.

 

With question such as this one, the future of this forum is in safe hands and this should become a benchmark for all the questions of the future to aspire to.

 

My congratulations to you for constructing such an important question, it has without a doubt been the question of the day.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Which is my way of saying - we ain't ever going to find out now we are a Private Company, but is also something I think we should know.

 

Meanhwile I would like to thank the 1974 ish LibDem candidate for Salisbury & South Wiltshire for giving me that marvellous quote. He actually used that in answer to a question and since that day I have held all Politicians in the regard that they deserve. You guys should play Election Bingo and see who else tries that one on

 

Was tat John Lakeman?

[Secret Site Agent]

What an excellent question.

 

This is, without a doubt, the sort of question that should be asked. It is the sort of question that can drive quality debate, that can seek clarification on critical issues and of course can help to inform and educate.

 

With question such as this one, the future of this forum is in safe hands and this should become a benchmark for all the questions of the future to aspire to.

 

My congratulations to you for constructing such an important question, it has without a doubt been the question of the day.

 

 

 

Which is my way of saying - we ain't ever going to find out now we are a Private Company, but is also something I think we should know.

 

Meanhwile I would like to thank the 1974 ish LibDem candidate for Salisbury & South Wiltshire for giving me that marvellous quote. He actually used that in answer to a question and since that day I have held all Politicians in the regard that they deserve. You guys should play Election Bingo and see who else tries that one on

 

 

You may think that Phil, but I couldn't possibly comment! 'Francis Urquart'

Now there is a politician based on many politicians that are able to give an answer to a question that contains no answer to the question at all.

[John B]

DMWSL 613 LIMITED, Company No. 06951765. Name hasn't been changed yet, registered office at SMS.

 

The trading company is Southampton Football Club Limited.

 

What is the situation regarding Tax does SFC pay anything?

[dubai_phil]

You may think that Phil, but I couldn't possibly comment! 'Francis Urquart'

Now there is a politician based on many politicians that are able to give an answer to a question that contains no answer to the question at all.

 

My other great Political hero

[dubai_phil]

Was tat John Lakeman?

 

That was an excellent spot, I'd fogotten the name but remembered the awful hair

[dubai_phil]

Phil, i cant send PMs cos im a cheap skate, any idea where i can watch Champs League tonight in Dubai.

 

Cheers Gaffer!

 

Oops bit late - but ANY Pub - check Timeout Dubai for listing near your hotel

[aintforever]

There is no way we are breaking even, not even close.

 

How many other League 1 sides have spent what we have?

[John B]

There is no way we are breaking even, not even close.

 

How many other League 1 sides have spent what we have?

 

Yes but lots of League 1 Clubs have low attendances and have not had so many cup games

[Saint Fan CaM]

Why does this matter? Serious question.

[NickG]

There is no way we are breaking even, not even close.

 

How many other League 1 sides have spent what we have?

 

what's that got to do with anything?

 

My guess, and we are all guessing;), is we are easily.

 

The attendance required last season was said to be around 14,000. That was with a 30,000,000 mortage.

 

I guess that mortgage would have needed a crowd of about 4,000 to service it?

 

So if salaries etc were the same we may only need a crowd of around 10,000 and we are doubling that. Plus got to the last 16 and a televised FA Cup game, JPT final.

 

Not sure how salaries would compare?

 

We have signed players on decent money but lost likes of:

Surman

Skacel

Euell

Saganowski

BWP

Svensson

Stern John

 

Pardew will be on good money.

 

So my guess is we could break even with about half the crowds we are getting.

[John B]

Why does this matter? Serious question.

 

More money for Transfers Possibly

[dubai_phil]

Why does this matter? Serious question.

 

At this point in time it doesn't matter. Life in the garden is very very rosy.

 

It is also something that we are extremely unlikely to find out.

 

But as fans although the garden is rosy we SHOULD be asking and we should keep an eye on our finances. One day something COULD change, in a week a year or a decade.

The few up the road, the Hammers and in some ways the Scousers didn't ask. They are an extreme version of what COULD happen if fans bury their heads in the sand and think everything is fine all the time.

 

Is it a problem? no. Will it be a problem while Markus is around? no.

Should we spend all our days demanding the answers? no.

 

We should just be aware and cautious IMHO

[landford.saint]

Any business has numerous overheads, staff wages, property, equipment, rates, etc etc and not forgetting our friends HMRC. Personally I doubt if we are breaking even, if you look at the back of your program every week you will see our squad is masive compered with our opponents. i doubt if we are even close to breaking even. NC is a shrewd operaror and I can see a big clear out of players who are not 'part of future plans' in the summer, with just a few coming in.

[aintforever]

what's that got to do with anything?

 

My guess, and we are all guessing;), is we are easily.

 

The attendance required last season was said to be around 14,000. That was with a 30,000,000 mortage.

 

I guess that mortgage would have needed a crowd of about 4,000 to service it?

 

So if salaries etc were the same we may only need a crowd of around 10,000 and we are doubling that. Plus got to the last 16 and a televised FA Cup game, JPT final.

 

Not sure how salaries would compare?

 

We have signed players on decent money but lost likes of:

Surman

Skacel

Euell

Saganowski

BWP

Svensson

Stern John

 

Pardew will be on good money.

 

So my guess is we could break even with about half the crowds we are getting.

 

I don't know what the break even attendances were last year, but whatever it was we didn't reach it because we went bust, and that's even with the extra Championship Sky TV money.

 

Players like Jaidi and Fonte don't drop down leagues for a laff, they will be on massive wages for this league. We have decent attendances but not so big as to out spend Leeds and Norwich - which we have.

 

We've spent HUGE amounts for this league, much more than can be accounted for by a few extra fans through the turnstyles IMO, especially given the cheap seat prices.

[NickG]

would be surpised if Jaidi and Fonte, defenders signed to play in league 1, were only anywhere near the money of John and Saga.

 

Our increased attendances this year (the few extra fans) will easily be worth £1.5m, and as said before you have the FA Cup and JPT money in as well. So these few extra fans you write off are worth millions.

 

Do Norwich and Leeds have large debt to service?

[Thedelldays]

would be surpised if Jaidi and Fonte, defenders signed to play in league 1, were only anywhere near the money of John and Saga.

 

Our increased attendances this year (the few extra fans) will easily be worth £1.5m, and as said before you have the FA Cup and JPT money in as well. So these few extra fans you write off are worth millions.

 

Do Norwich and Leeds have large debt to service?

how on earth are you qualified to say that

[John B]

would be surpised if Jaidi and Fonte, defenders signed to play in league 1, were only anywhere near the money of John and Saga.

 

Our increased attendances this year (the few extra fans) will easily be worth £1.5m, and as said before you have the FA Cup and JPT money in as well. So these few extra fans you write off are worth millions.

 

Do Norwich and Leeds have large debt to service?

 

Leeds no I would have thought going into Admin

 

But Norwich I have no idea

[NickG]

cos I can do basic maths

[John B]

how on earth are you qualified to say that

 

He is a whizz with figures dont you know but is probably in the right area

[Thedelldays]

cos I can do basic maths

so, you have access to gate receipts etc..?

[NickG]

Leeds no I would have thought going into Admin

 

But Norwich I have no idea

 

just googled it -

 

Norwich struggling to service a £23m debt

[ludgershallsaint]

how on earth are you qualified to say that

 

Agreed.

 

Fonte will be on a very big wage considering he happily dropped a division.

 

Need to factor in Lambert's goal bonuses as well. Not many of them last season!

[John B]

Agreed.

 

Fonte will be on a very big wage considering he happily dropped a division.

 

Need to factor in Lambert's goal bonuses as well. Not many of them last season!

 

Also Nicola's odd £Million or so possibly low for a banker;)

[Thedelldays]

pardew will be on a whack..then we have two ex league 1 MANAGERS as coaches

[ludgershallsaint]

I think it is pie in the sky to assume the club is making anything other than a significant operating loss.

[NickG]

so, you have access to gate receipts etc..?

 

3,000 increase on gate. tickets around £20 =£1.6m

luton FA cup 18,000

MK JPT 30,000

Skates 32,000

 

Carlisle 73,000

 

TV money for skates and Carlisle.

[John B]

I think it is pie in the sky to assume the club is making anything other than a significant operating loss.

 

I dont think so but as you indicate who really knows

[NickG]

Agreed.

 

Fonte will be on a very big wage considering he happily dropped a division.

 

Need to factor in Lambert's goal bonuses as well. Not many of them last season!

 

as was John, Saga etc etc

[Thedelldays]

3,000 increase on gate. tickets around £20 =£1.6m

luton FA cup 18,000

MK JPT 30,000

Skates 32,000

 

Carlisle 73,000

 

TV money for skates and Carlisle.

brilliant.....armchair accountant

[NickG]

you doubted it!

 

think it says more for your maths ability if you think multiplying three numbers takes you into the arena only for accountants!

[Thedelldays]

you doubted it!

 

think it says more for your maths ability if you think multiplying three numbers takes you into the arena only for accountants!

I think there is alot more to it than saying.."32k against the skates"

[ludgershallsaint]

brilliant.....armchair accountant

 

I am one and my educated guess is as above.

 

Anybody know the reporting period for the new company?

[NickG]

no, guess it was formed for the purchase?