Revolutionary New Coaching Set Up ?

[eurosaint]

Given the big build up at the start of the season about this ' continental style, revolutionary, all inclusive new system' it strikes me that we have a manager (Poortvliet), a reserve team manager (Wotte) and the other two (Henderson and Hockaday) looking after the youth side !

It strikes me that this structure is about the same as most other teams and means that it was all just spin to make us feel good and buy season tickets etc.. ?

'Total football' was also touted but now just seems to be a mixture of playing people out of position or running around without any clear direction !

Excuse me for being cynical but when I look back a few months and consider the bold optimism on offer I am beginning to feel a bit disappointed to say the least !

I feel sure that the players and coaching staff are doing their best but perhaps the hype was just too much for them ??

[Channon's Sideburns]

Ah...I see the smell of coffee is circulating in this forum at long last...

 

There are many Saints fans out there who:

 

a) Believe all the PR hype and accept anything they are told by you know who;

 

b) Don't believe any of it and realise there will be only two winners out of this experiment, and one of them is not SFC - a clue - L & W...

 

The only thing revolutionary about our coaching set up is that although we have our coaches, it seems only one person is running this club.

 

You can't say that you weren't warned....

[sadoldgit]

I don't quite understand where you get the "winners" from? Surely if we fail everyone fails? I really do not see what Lowe and Wilde gain if the club goes down the pan.

[rocknrollman no2]

Its the same every season though,especially if you buy the early bird ST.

You think we will keep a good mixture of the players already here and bring in some better new ones,yet all we get is a cheaper version of what we had.

But this season seems to be worse because Lowe has just promoted the reserve team instead.

[saintwarwick]

I don't quite understand where you get the "winners" from? Surely if we fail everyone fails? I really do not see what Lowe and Wilde gain if the club goes down the pan.

 

Unfortunately some cannot see this just like some think going into administration will instantly remove Lowe and Wilde.

[Chez]

surely no one with half a brain swallowed the bull**** on the OS this summer? The term `revolutionary coaching system' became a running joke on here after about two news items (and the OS continued to use it all summer).

[Chez]

Its the same every season though,especially if you buy the early bird ST.

You think we will keep a good mixture of the players already here and bring in some better new ones,yet all we get is a cheaper version of what we had.

But this season seems to be worse because Lowe has just promoted the reserve team instead.

 

sorry but with huge debts run up over the previous 12 months every Saints fan should have known this summer that the side would be stripped of every valuable player and replaced with low wages, low quality and youth team players. If you bought a ST thinking it would be anything but that scenario then you were just stupid.

[Guest Hacienda]

surely no one with half a brain swallowed the bull**** on the OS this summer? The term `revolutionary coaching system' became a running joke on here after about two news items (and the OS continued to use it all summer).

 

I think you'll find an awful lot of posters on here took it hook, line and sinker.

 

In fact, some have already posted on this thread.

[Roman]

Unfortunately some cannot see this just like some think going into administration will instantly remove Lowe and Wilde.

 

You're right of course, but only because of the utter dimwittedness and desperation of this little adventure embaked upon by L & W.

 

Lowe appears to be an astute boardroom tactician with the social graces of a komodo dragon. However, he is what he is - and wouldn't be there at all but for what seems to be the reckless and panic-driven acquiescence of man-of-the-fans Wilde.

[saintwarwick]

Its the same every season though,especially if you buy the early bird ST.

You think we will keep a good mixture of the players already here and bring in some better new ones,yet all we get is a cheaper version of what we had.

But this season seems to be worse because Lowe has just promoted the reserve team instead.

 

Unfortunately that is all we can afford. However it appears John and Skacel are in the squad tomorrow so by my reckoning they are fit to play (John has already featured this season) so should play. Also Spiderman and Euell are playing for the reserves so hopefully they are not too far away from playing meaning we will hopefully have a squad with a mixture of experience and youth.

[1965onwards]

I have said before on this forum that buying STs helps arseholes like Wilde and Lowe to completely ignore the fanbase.

 

Forget about the club needing the money,no business should be run on the basis of receiving so much of its money up front.

[brmbrm]

Given the big build up at the start of the season about this ' continental style, revolutionary, all inclusive new system' it strikes me that we have a manager (Poortvliet), a reserve team manager (Wotte) and the other two (Henderson and Hockaday) looking after the youth side !

It strikes me that this structure is about the same as most other teams and means that it was all just spin to make us feel good and buy season tickets etc.. ?

'Total football' was also touted but now just seems to be a mixture of playing people out of position or running around without any clear direction !

Excuse me for being cynical but when I look back a few months and consider the bold optimism on offer I am beginning to feel a bit disappointed to say the least !

I feel sure that the players and coaching staff are doing their best but perhaps the hype was just too much for them ??

 

Oh come on, show some sense.

 

Poortvliet and Wotte are Dutch

Dutch means "come from Holland"

Holland = home of "total football"

Total football is by definition exciting, attractive, attacking, open, world-beating football

Therefore Poortvliet and Wotte will bring us world-beating football.

 

Yup, thats the logic,and i can't see it either, but them darn snake-oil salesmen make a pretty good living conning gullible people out of their hard-earned dosh.

 

Well anyone with half a brain would grasp the concept of the counter-example:

Edam = Dutch but it ain't total football

Clogs = Dutch but they ain't total football

Plenty of thingies in Amsterdam = Dutch but they ain't total football

 

Doesn't stop the con-man making his fast buck.

[saintwarwick]

sorry but with huge debts run up over the previous 12 months every Saints fan should have known this summer that the side would be stripped of every valuable player and replaced with low wages, low quality and youth team players. If you bought a ST thinking it would be anything but that scenario then you were just stupid.

 

The majority of fans bought their season ticket in the winter/spring during March madness. The huge debts scenario probably wasn't as highlighted then as is now. It would not have stopped me buying one though.

[Chez]

I have said before on this forum that buying STs helps arseholes like Wilde and Lowe to completely ignore the fanbase.

 

Forget about the club needing the money,no business should be run on the basis of receiving so much of its money up front.

 

so are you suggesting supporters do not take the club up on its eary bird offers to teach them a lesson? If you do you end up forking out hundreds more to see the same 23 games...

[saintwarwick]

I have said before on this forum that buying STs helps arseholes like Wilde and Lowe to completely ignore the fanbase.

 

Forget about the club needing the money,no business should be run on the basis of receiving so much of its money up front.

 

So no other club receive money up front in season ticket sales? It's the norm in football so clubs can budget the season ahead. It's no good buying players at the end of the season when you need them at the start.

[1965onwards]

You probably wouldn't Chez,as you would pick your games,and not go to all of them.

 

By not having this forward income Lowe would have to run the business taking into account the views and opinions and needs of his customers,like a proper business does.

He would have to react accordingly,for fear of his customers refusing to buy his product at all,and the business failing overnight.

 

If only football supporters would grasp this fact,football could be changed considerably in a very quick time.Supporters have considerable power if they are prepared to use it.

[eurosaint]

I think you'll find an awful lot of posters on here took it hook, line and sinker.

 

In fact, some have already posted on this thread.

 

I happily paid my 390 quid in March but please believe me it was NOT because of the bullsh#t about a 'revolutionary new coaching system' . It was only because I am a Saints fan through and through! I may well be an idiot but even I could detect that 'total football' was a bit far fetched, to say the least !!!

[stthrobber]

Given the big build up at the start of the season about this ' continental style, revolutionary, all inclusive new system' it strikes me that we have a manager (Poortvliet), a reserve team manager (Wotte) and the other two (Henderson and Hockaday) looking after the youth side !

It strikes me that this structure is about the same as most other teams and means that it was all just spin to make us feel good and buy season tickets etc.. ?

'Total football' was also touted but now just seems to be a mixture of playing people out of position or running around without any clear direction !

Excuse me for being cynical but when I look back a few months and consider the bold optimism on offer I am beginning to feel a bit disappointed to say the least !

I feel sure that the players and coaching staff are doing their best but perhaps the hype was just too much for them ??

 

Like many others I viewed the revolutionary set up with a certain amount of cynicism. I guess they had to do their best to convince the fans that not renewing Pearson's contract and bringing in Poortvlieet was a positive thing for the club, and not, as it actually was, a huge risk given the level at which he has coached and the complete lack of success that foreign coaches seem to have had at Championship level.

 

I was somewhat reassured when the coaching team announced that the set up would be old heads to guide the young ones, ie a mixture of experience and youth, but I am now extremely concerned that the balance is completely wrong with too many kids lacking the strength and experience. Enthusiasm can only take the team so far.

 

I don't understand how, when the club is financially crocked, we can buy an 18 year old French player for a million when we could have brought in a couple of more experienced players.

 

I'm not completely convinced that we are going down, but if the policy is to continue using virtually all youth players, then I do fear that league one is our next stop

[saintwarwick]

Yup, thats the logic,and i can't see it either, but them darn snake-oil salesmen make a pretty good living conning gullible people out of their hard-earned dosh.

 

 

Yup, only at Southampton does this happen, no other club have chairmen that earn a salary and con their fans out of their hard earned dosh.

[1965onwards]

You are suggesting SW that football HAS to be financed that way,just because it has been for so long,but that is not the case.

 

It is perfectly possible for football to be run like a normal business.It would be greatly to the supposters benefit if it was.

 

One of the reasons that supporters feel that their teams has been hijacked by various arseholes,is because these arseholes use the security of this upfront payment to totally ignore the feelings of the supporters.

[saintwarwick]

You are suggesting SW that football HAS to be financed that way,just because it has been for so long,but that is not the case.

 

It is perfectly possible for football to be run like a normal business.It would be greatly to the supposters benefit if it was.

 

One of the reasons that supporters feel that their teams has been hijacked by various arseholes,is because these arseholes use the security of this upfront payment to totally ignore the feelings of the supporters.

 

The thing is it has been the norm for so many years that the clubs adopt this as a matter of course. I like the idea as I get my ticket cheaper and it can save me hundreds of pounds. It is no different to buying insurance (car, house, contents etc) where you have to pay up front. The end result is the club know what budget they are working with for the forthcoming season.

[1965onwards]

Yes SW,but do you feel the same about Norwich Union as you do Saints.Course not.

 

And you know that you are getting something worthwhile from N.U,and you can take your business elsewhere whenever you want.

 

Unfortunately,those running clubs are exploiting peoples emotional attachment to their clubs to shaft them,and none moreso than Lowe and Wilde.People feel that their clubs have been taken away from them,and in essence they have.

 

Fans can get their clubs back if they want,but they have to accept that it may cause short-term damage.But i believe that the damage has already been done ,we are just one of many teetering on the edge.This banking fiasco may be just the thing to sort out the nonsensical finances of football.

[saintwarwick]

Yes SW,but do you feel the same about Norwich Union as you do Saints.Course not.

 

And you know that you are getting something worthwhile from N.U,and you can take your business elsewhere whenever you want.

 

Unfortunately,those running clubs are exploiting peoples emotional attachment to their clubs to shaft them,and none moreso than Lowe and Wilde.People feel that their clubs have been taken away from them,and in essence they have.

 

Fans can get their clubs back if they want,but they have to accept that it may cause short-term damage.But i believe that the damage has already been done ,we are just one of many teetering on the edge.This banking fiasco may be just the thing to sort out the nonsensical finances of football.

 

Nope I love the saints but hate Norwich union. As for insurance no matter where you take your business you still have to pay up front.

[SaintRobbie]

I am feeling slightly vindicated.

[Channon's Sideburns]

Unfortunately some cannot see this just like some think going into administration will instantly remove Lowe and Wilde.

 

But that is the point, they (L&W) WILL use Admin to secure their position.

 

More Coffee yet?

[trousers]

Nope I love the saints but hate Norwich union. As for insurance no matter where you take your business you still have to pay up front.

 

You don't have to pay the full annual insurance premium up front though.....

 

I pay for my insurances (car, house contents & buildings etc) by direct debit.

 

As such, I only pay for one month "up front". I can cancel at anytime and thus only ever pay for what I use. So, if I don't feel I'm getting value for money I can tell my insurer where to go without losing any money.

 

Is it possible to redeem a football season ticket early? (I genuinely don;t know the answer to that 100%, although I suspect the answer is "no")

Edited 20 October, 2008 by trousers

[saintwarwick]

You don't have to pay the full annual insurance premium up front though.....

 

I pay for my insurances (car, house contents & buildings etc) by direct debit.

 

As such, I only pay for one month "up front". I can cancel at anytime and thus only ever pay for what I use. So, if I don't feel I'm getting value for money I can tell my insurer where to go without losing any money.

 

Is it possible to redeem a football season ticket early? (I genuinely don;t know the answer to that 100%, although I suspect the answer is "no")

 

You can pay the full amount of your insurance up front or pay by instalments incurring a small charge. As far as I am aware most insurance companies adopt a policy of a cancellation fee of one month. Agreed a season ticket cannot be redeemed but paying up front for a saving has been around for donkey years.

[sadoldgit]

I think you'll find an awful lot of posters on here took it hook, line and sinker.

 

In fact, some have already posted on this thread.

 

I doubt very much if that is true.

 

Of course the club are going to big up any changes they make but I think most Saints fans knew the score and that this was always going to be a tough season.

 

What should they do? Run a story saying that financial constraints mean that we are going to play kids and bring in a cheap management team so don't expect too much for a year or two?

 

There is nothing wrong with the premise of trying to survive by bringing through your own players. Where is should be tempered though is where the players are not good enough.

 

At some point you have to say enough is enough and bring in the older heads. Hopefully that point was against Watford

[The Farmer]

Of course the club are going to big up any changes they make but I think most Saints fans knew the score and that this was always going to be a tough season.

 

What should they do? Run a story saying that financial constraints mean that we are going to play kids and bring in a cheap management team so don't expect too much for a year or two?

 

There is nothing wrong with the premise of trying to survive by bringing through your own players. Where is should be tempered though is where the players are not good enough.

 

At some point you have to say enough is enough and bring in the older heads. Hopefully that point was against Watford

 

Corrected

 

Of course the club/Lowe are going to champion any self serving changes they make but I think most Saints fans knew the score and that this was always going to be a season where the two parasites try and milk the last drop of blood from their shareholdings.

 

What should they do? Run a story saying that financial constraints mean that we are going to play all their possible future bargaining tools and bring in two unknwon 'Yes' men, so don't expect to ever to enjoy following Saints again when we implode?

 

There is nothing wrong with the premise of trying to make more money for the Lowe cabal by bringing through your youth players and selling them at a huge profit.

 

At some point you have to say enough is enough and bring in the older heads. Hopefully that point was against Watford but with Lowe is running the show and the pursestrings, I'll give you some long odds on that one

[Saint Bones]

Hmm... Just out of interest.

 

If Lowe and Wilde are supposingly getting rich out of bleeding the club dry - doesn't that mean that the other shareholders would be reaping in the same rewards ?

 

Isn't Lowe only a 6% or something shareholder ?

[The Farmer]

Hmm... Just out of interest.

 

If Lowe and Wilde are supposingly getting rich out of bleeding the club dry - doesn't that mean that the other shareholders would be reaping in the same rewards ?

 

Isn't Lowe only a 6% or something shareholder ?

 

Lowe is just protecting his ill gotten gains along with other ill gotten gains by the 'old' board/Askham - a little boys club Lowe has fronted since the morally corrupt reverse takeover orchestrated by the puppet master and original self serving guru, Guy 'unfortunate side effect of floatation' Askham.

 

Wilde was just too weak to see through the coup he lauded the SFE message board with and now he has sold out the very fans he formerly seeked approval from as he tries to preserve he own little pile of pound coins he threw at the club in his attempt to cover himself in personal glory.

[mprobert]

I guess some fans have just bought their ST to support their team - crazy idea I know, but we could give it a try - it might just work

[The Farmer]

I guess some fans have just bought their ST to support their team - crazy idea I know, but we could give it a try - it might just work

 

The sad a depressing fact is that if I continue supporting Saints at the current time I am supporting the one evil entity that's running the club into the ground.

 

And for that reason I'm, and many thousands of others, are out.

[um pahars]

I think you'll find an awful lot of posters on here took it hook, line and sinker.

 

In fact, some have already posted on this thread.

 

I doubt very much if that is true.

 

Let's not try and rewrite history SOG.

 

There were many on here cooing at the prospect of Total Football and what the Revolutionary Coaching set up would bring us.

 

The OS, and it's sister mouthpiece The Echo, were shouting from the rooftops about the glorious footballing revolution and many fell for the propaganda hook, line and sinker.

[hughieslastminutegoal]

Oh come on, show some sense.

 

Poortvliet and Wotte are Dutch

Dutch means "come from Holland"

Holland = home of "total football"

Total football is by definition exciting, attractive, attacking, open, world-beating football

Therefore Poortvliet and Wotte will bring us world-beating football.

 

Yup, thats the logic,and i can't see it either, but them darn snake-oil salesmen make a pretty good living conning gullible people out of their hard-earned dosh.

 

Well anyone with half a brain would grasp the concept of the counter-example:

Edam = Dutch but it ain't total football

Clogs = Dutch but they ain't total football

Plenty of thingies in Amsterdam = Dutch but they ain't total football

 

Doesn't stop the con-man making his fast buck.

 

Yup, them snake-oil salesmen are in symbiotic partnership with the Emeror's tailor.

[Wes Tender]

The saving of a few quid a game is unimportant to me, as I can afford it, although increasingly what I witness for the £48 it costs for me and my son is increasingly an irritation. But now I'm really glad that I didn't renew our STs because of Lowe's return with the Quisling, as I have the satisfaction of knowing that they do not have my money up front and that at any time we can just stop going if we wish, stopping any further income from us if we feel that we no longer enjoy going.

 

If things continue the way they are, the chorus of opinions from people saying that they would rather watch the kids than those overpaid journeymen will diminish as the penny drops that it is not possible to play the ratio of kids that we do and progress. The penny will drop too with a resounding clang in January when those players that we did think were worth watching, are all sold, to be replaced by yet younger and more inexperienced kids.

 

Although Lowe and the Quisling backed by their faction of toadies have a majority on the board that cannot be overturned if they act in concert, that does not mean that they cannot be ousted from the board in this status quo situation. In fact, it does not even mean that they have to comprise the board. There are other people who could form the board as Hone, Hoos and Dulieu did and it is simply a matter of forcing Lowe, Wilde and their henchmen off the board. At least one benefit of making that change would be to oust the two most devisive elements in the club's history from the day to day running of the club, which might encourage more to attend matches.

 

Perhaps if things continue the way that they are, we ought to concentrate our minds on forcing these changes. As a weapon of last resort, a mass boycott of just one match, if rigorously applied, would almost certainly have the desired effect if it was made crystal clear that the board was required to resign to be replaced by others. Pressure would be put on the board by the Bank and there would also be the pressure of the board losing the value of their share investments, as clearly any repeat boycotts would soon tip the club over the edge financially.

 

I stress that this is the equivalent of the nuclear option, the weapon of last resort. It might well be that the board might come to their senses and realise that the crazy experiment is not working and make the changes to the management or the team that will stop our decline. But if they don't address the situation soon, an increasingly exasperated fanbase should at least know that as things stand currently, they do have the power to force change. You would have thought that once the board realise that we might be forced to use that power, that they would treat us with a bit more respect.

 

As with the nuclear option, most times it is sufficient to have the threat of it to ensure that you never have to use it. But we ought to let the board know that we are at least intelligent enough to realise that we have this weapon in our armoury and would be prepared to use it under certain circumstances. That ought to concentrate their minds.

Edited 21 October, 2008 by Wes Tender

[Thedelldays]

well...so many thought/think the CCC is a great place to be and some even STATED that they prefer it here than the prem.

 

what a load of bile

[solentstars]

I guess some fans have just bought their ST to support their team - crazy idea I know, but we could give it a try - it might just work

wow what a good idea.:cool:

[SaintRichmond]

I don't quite understand where you get the "winners" from? Surely if we fail everyone fails? I really do not see what Lowe and Wilde gain if the club goes down the pan.

 

 

The Football Team may "go down the pan "

 

The PLC will not

 

Think about it !!!! Lowe does NOT have to have a Successful Football Team, to run a Successful BUSINESS, ie The PLC

[yorkiesaint]

To get back to the original point, Wotte kind of gave away the revolutionary nature of the set-up on the OS a few weeks back. Apparently the revolution was to rearrange reserve team fixtures so that the first team and reserves can train 'together'. According to Wotte what this actually means is that Jan trains with the first team and he takes the rest. So the real revolution is that teams train simultaneously, rather than together. I imagine the point of the revolution is simply logistical, so that you don't have to plan in advance who is in what training session, and players can be shunted from one set to the other, in response to injuries etc. the rest as we know, is spin.

 

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/news/?page_id=10458

[alpine_saint]

i think you'll find an awful lot of posters on here took it hook, line and sinker.

 

In fact, some have already posted on this thread.

 

lol

[Victor]

Haven't you cottoned on yet? Southampton FC is not a 'club', it is a business run for the benefit of the shareholders.

 

To improve the business they need to advertise and part of that is the OS.

 

All advertising is spin and bull****.

 

Did you really not know this?

[Saint Bones]

Hmm... Just out of interest.

 

If Lowe and Wilde are supposingly getting rich out of bleeding the club dry - doesn't that mean that the other shareholders would be reaping in the same rewards ?

 

Isn't Lowe only a 6% or something shareholder ?

 

So can anyone with a bit of an idea on these things answer my question ?

[eurosaint]

To get back to the original point, Wotte kind of gave away the revolutionary nature of the set-up on the OS a few weeks back. Apparently the revolution was to rearrange reserve team fixtures so that the first team and reserves can train 'together'. According to Wotte what this actually means is that Jan trains with the first team and he takes the rest. So the real revolution is that teams train simultaneously, rather than together. I imagine the point of the revolution is simply logistical, so that you don't have to plan in advance who is in what training session, and players can be shunted from one set to the other, in response to injuries etc. the rest as we know, is spin.

 

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/news/?page_id=10458

 

I don't get that ? It seems to me that 'simultaneously' or 'together' is the same thing, no ?

In any case it's hardly a revolution but thanks for getting back to the original point, Yorkie !

[Whitey Grandad]

I don't get that ? It seems to me that 'simultaneously' or 'together' is the same thing, no ?

In any case it's hardly a revolution but thanks for getting back to the original point, Yorkie !

Simultaneously could mean contemporaneously, i.e at the same time but not 'together'. How that would help the performances on the pitch is beyond me, but maybe that' why I'm not a football manager.

[eurosaint]

Simultaneously could mean contemporaneously, i.e at the same time but not 'together'. How that would help the performances on the pitch is beyond me, but maybe that' why I'm not a football manager.

 

I'll take a punt on you, Whitey, as the rest of them haven't exactly set the heather on fire, eh ?

[farawaysaint]

So can anyone with a bit of an idea on these things answer my question ?

 

In short there is no benefit whatsoever for Lowe to screw up the club, he in fact returned to attempt to protect his investment, they definitely won't be getting rich out of bleeding this club dry as essentially the entire club's income belongs to the bank unless we can meet our debts.

[The Farmer]

In short there is no benefit whatsoever for Lowe to screw up the club, he in fact returned to attempt to protect his investment, they definitely won't be getting rich out of bleeding this club dry as essentially the entire club's income belongs to the bank unless we can meet our debts.

 

So he and Mike are foregoing any wages then - nope, thought not.

[saintwarwick]

So he and Mike are foregoing any wages then - nope, thought not.

 

Do you work for nothing?

[Wes Tender]

Do you work for nothing?

 

What is the relevance of a comparison between most of us who have to work and those who are wealthy enough not to have to? Crouch didn't get paid, so why should Lowe or Wilde? Many Club Chairmen don't take pay; it's not anything unusual in this industry. Many consider it a privilege to be able to play with their own private little "train set".

 

But Lowe and Wilde can look at their pay as a way of recouping some of the value of their shares as a partial insurance against the losses they would incur if we went into administration.