SO16_Saint Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 Just got home from town and seen that the shops typed into the pdq machine £5.94 instead of £55.94. The till receipt says £55.94 Is there any way they will take the £50 off of the card without us being there? Obviously don't mind if they do, but would prefer if they didn't!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperMikey Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 No, I don't think they can without you there. Whoever served you will have to make up that £50... Out of interest, where was it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SO16_Saint Posted 8 October, 2011 Author Share Posted 8 October, 2011 Baby shop in west quay, near M&S can't think what it's called?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 No, I don't think they can without you there. Whoever served you will have to make up that £50... Out of interest, where was it? I bet they could if they wanted to, whether they will or not is something different. I can't remember what your legal obligation is though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 No, I don't think they can without you there. Whoever served you will have to make up that £50... Out of interest, where was it? But hotels can if, for example, you raid the minibar and don't tell them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niceandfriendly Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 They can definitely put the charge through the machine without you being there and I'm pretty sure they're within their rights to do so. Like somebody said, it's happened to me at many hotels where I didn't check out but they took a swipe of my card on check in. Keep your fingers crossed that they don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 But hotels can if, for example, you raid the minibar and don't tell them. I think that once they've got your card number they can make any debit they like on it. If you give a hotel your card number to book your room and then don't turn up without telling them they'll certainly charge your card and quite correctly too. If a shop overcharges you they sometimes realise it and refund your card for the difference (not very often spontaneously though).So commerces can certainly effect translations without your presence.I don't doubt for a minute that in this case the error will be spotted and they'll autocorrect it, they might tell the OP that they're going to do it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 No, I don't think they can without you there. Whoever served you will have to make up that £50... Out of interest, where was it? I bet they could if they wanted to, whether they will or not is something different. I can't remember what your legal obligation is though. But hotels can if, for example, you raid the minibar and don't tell them. They can definitely put the charge through the machine without you being there and I'm pretty sure they're within their rights to do so. Like somebody said, it's happened to me at many hotels where I didn't check out but they took a swipe of my card on check in. Keep your fingers crossed that they don't. Are you all saying Super Mikey is wrong? This cannot be what his worldly knowledge and experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 Are you all saying Super Mikey is wrong? This cannot be what his worldly knowledge and experience. perhaps he has no experience of credit card payments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 There is no way they can re process your card details ...... they dont have them. Their receipt is all "xxxx" ed out. Hotels take your card details....pdq's don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SO16_Saint Posted 8 October, 2011 Author Share Posted 8 October, 2011 Thanks for the advice guys....if they do, so be it. If they don't - great!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 But hotels can if, for example, you raid the minibar and don't tell them. I think thats only if they had your permission to swipe your card details on checking in in case you did a runner. Most hotels insist on that nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dark Sotonic Mills Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 There is no way they can re process your card details ...... they dont have them. Their receipt is all "xxxx" ed out. Hotels take your card details....pdq's don't. Sorry, but the retailer's receipt is not 'x'ed out at all and has the whole number in it. Depends if they are registered to do a 'cardholder not present' transaction though, which, unless they do telephone mail order, they won't be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 Thanks for the advice guys....if they do, so be it. If they don't - great!! Best attitude, wait until baby expenses become overwhelming, you'll soon wish you'd stuck to stirring your tea with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 Sorry, but the retailer's receipt is not 'x'ed out at all and has the whole number in it. Depends if they are registered to do a 'cardholder not present' transaction though, which, unless they do telephone mail order, they won't be. Not only that, but even if they are, they will still need the 3 digit code from the back of the card - which they won't have. Besides, they won't even realise until they cash up tonight that they are missing the money. Depends how switched on the manager is as to whether they will find which transaction was not processed correctly. Even when they do find it, they will only be able to rule out theft by an employee as the cause of the loss. I suspect the till is not connected to the pdq machine - it would not have allowed such a mistake if it were - so depending on how busy the store was, it could be an awful lot of work to find £50! So, I guess you're in the clear, but is your conscience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SO16_Saint Posted 8 October, 2011 Author Share Posted 8 October, 2011 If it's just my conscience were talking about, Weston, I'm in the clear....!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 Not only that, but even if they are, they will still need the 3 digit code from the back of the card - which they won't have. Besides, they won't even realise until they cash up tonight that they are missing the money. Depends how switched on the manager is as to whether they will find which transaction was not processed correctly. Even when they do find it, they will only be able to rule out theft by an employee as the cause of the loss. I suspect the till is not connected to the pdq machine - it would not have allowed such a mistake if it were - so depending on how busy the store was, it could be an awful lot of work to find £50! So, I guess you're in the clear, but is your conscience you may well be quite right, in that case I should be extremely surprised,nay astounded,to know that retailers do not have any simple way of correcting keypad errors on EPTs, I mean the occasional error must be a foreseeable factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorpe-le-Saint Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 Brilliant news for you...the shop assisstant; not so much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumuah Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 I wouldn't worry about it. It'll cost them more to chase the £50 than they would get back. Knowing the cost of all things baby related, they probably still made a profit charging you a fiver! If they charge you again, ring your card company and have the charge cancelled because you haven't authorised it. You have a receipt to say that you have paid to the satisfaction of the shop, and were allowed to leave with the store happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamster Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 The decent thing to do would be to go back and pay the right amount Bridgey, it's your conscience mate. House thing on the final fence btw, BTL. Kerching hopefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cat Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 They don't need the 3 digit number on the back of his card. If they want to make another transaction for the extra £50 all they need to do it type Bridgey's card details (the 12 digit number and expiry date) into their till. The problem for the shop is that this second payment wouldn't have been authorised and they can't proceed without a signature. If they want to they can contact you to arrange further payment. I'm pretty sure they are also legally entitled to persue this through the small claims court, but it would be pretty ridiculous to bother doing that for £50. Because you have 2 receipts (and so do they) it can be proved you knew how much the goods were worth. I really don't think they'll be after the extra money though. Also I very much doubt the shop assistant would have to pay the money back themselves. That would be harsh if it was a genuine mistake. I've worked in a few shops and never known that to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SO16_Saint Posted 8 October, 2011 Author Share Posted 8 October, 2011 If they come after me for the money I'll happily pay, but otherwise I won't complain! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperMikey Posted 8 October, 2011 Share Posted 8 October, 2011 Are you all saying Super Mikey is wrong? This cannot be what his worldly knowledge and experience. In my industry (restaurant) if we are missing any cash at the end of the day or our card total is wrong, we have to make up the difference from our own money. I've never worked in a shop where the PDQ machine wasn't linked directly to a till, usually you have no control over what total appears on the machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swannymere Posted 9 October, 2011 Share Posted 9 October, 2011 Sorry to **** on anyone's bonfire but you don't need the cardholder to be present or have the 3 digit code to process credit/debit card transactions, the retailer won't have the whole card number either, just the first four and last four digits to prevent fraud. Pity really, in the good old days when the whole number and expiry date appeard on the retailer receipt you could back charge extra amounts onto rude customers cards, those were the days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony13579 Posted 9 October, 2011 Share Posted 9 October, 2011 If they don't link the amount to the till fail to see how they are going to spot their error unless they staple the pdq receipt to the till receipt. At the end off days trading they would have a huge list of transactions and a huge pile of slips. They might spot a £45 error in the days takings but identifying the source would be a nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 9 October, 2011 Share Posted 9 October, 2011 In my industry (restaurant) if we are missing any cash at the end of the day or our card total is wrong, we have to make up the difference from our own money. I've never worked in a shop where the PDQ machine wasn't linked directly to a till, usually you have no control over what total appears on the machine. I'm a volunteer at a local museum trust and often work in the shop. Once we'd got the PDQ machine set up, I quickly realised that the transaction had to be entered on the till AND SEPARATELY on the machine. There was no connection between the two. I realised because I entered a completely different amount on the PDQ machine the first time I used it but luckily the customer spotted the mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Saint Posted 9 October, 2011 Share Posted 9 October, 2011 If they had charged £50 too much you would have gone back to the shop like a shot. Double standards = dishonesty. It is a form of theft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted 9 October, 2011 Share Posted 9 October, 2011 I'm a volunteer at a local museum trust and often work in the shop. Once we'd got the PDQ machine set up, I quickly realised that the transaction had to be entered on the till AND SEPARATELY on the machine. There was no connection between the two. I realised because I entered a completely different amount on the PDQ machine the first time I used it but luckily the customer spotted the mistake. ....and a bonus point to BTF for being the first person ever to correctly spell "separately" on here. Well done that girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 9 October, 2011 Share Posted 9 October, 2011 (edited) If they don't link the amount to the till fail to see how they are going to spot their error unless they staple the pdq receipt to the till receipt. At the end off days trading they would have a huge list of transactions and a huge pile of slips. They might spot a £45 error in the days takings but identifying the source would be a nightmare. Actually a round £50 would be pretty easy to spot.All you'd need to do would be look at all the transactions at multiple digits of 5, plus in that sort of shop a transaction of only £5.49 would stand out like a sore thumb. I can't ever remember going into Mothercare and spending less than a tenner and that was eons ago. Edited 9 October, 2011 by Window Cleaner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 9 October, 2011 Share Posted 9 October, 2011 ....and a bonus point to BTF for being the first person ever to correctly spell "separately" on here. Well done that girl. Not JUST a pretty face, me:smug: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Balls Posted 9 October, 2011 Share Posted 9 October, 2011 I once got charged £8.90 for a hotel in Southampton rather than £89.00 due to the lady entering the wrong amount on the machine. I assumed they would take the money from my card later but they never did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 9 October, 2011 Share Posted 9 October, 2011 Sorry, but the retailer's receipt is not 'x'ed out at all and has the whole number in it. Depends if they are registered to do a 'cardholder not present' transaction though, which, unless they do telephone mail order, they won't be. Wrong. They can only do a 'cardholder not present" transaction with the security code from the back of the card..... which they dont have and is not on the receipt. Do you always just make stuff up to try and win an argument? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farawaysaint Posted 9 October, 2011 Share Posted 9 October, 2011 Wrong. They can only do a 'cardholder not present" transaction with the security code from the back of the card..... which they dont have and is not on the receipt. Do you always just make stuff up to try and win an argument? Goddamn all of you the code is called a CVV or CSC it's a lot shorter than "the security code from the back of the card." Worked in a bank, in my experience without the CVV you can do nothing at all. Card details do not appear on merchant till slips or at least they bloody shouldn't or else anyone can defraud your card without all that much difficulty especially if it's a credit card and trust me, getting the bank to reverse those transactions is mission impossible and you have to prove basically beyond any modicum of doubt that it wasn't even possibly your fault... Bastards. That's why crooks need card cloning machines at restaurants and the like to copy the card details. If it appeared on the slip it would be a whole lot easier. Also PDQ machines separate from tills are actually very common and often seem to be the norm rather than the exception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benj Posted 9 October, 2011 Share Posted 9 October, 2011 Wrong. They can only do a 'cardholder not present" transaction with the security code from the back of the card..... which they dont have and is not on the receipt. Do you always just make stuff up to try and win an argument? False, I used to do at lease a dozen transactions a week where the card holder was not present and I didn't require anything other than the 16 digit number and the expiry date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 9 October, 2011 Share Posted 9 October, 2011 Goddamn all of you the code is called a CVV or CSC it's a lot shorter than "the security code from the back of the card." Worked in a bank, in my experience without the CVV you can do nothing at all. Card details do not appear on merchant till slips or at least they bloody shouldn't or else anyone can defraud your card without all that much difficulty especially if it's a credit card and trust me, getting the bank to reverse those transactions is mission impossible and you have to prove basically beyond any modicum of doubt that it wasn't even possibly your fault... Bastards. That's why crooks need card cloning machines at restaurants and the like to copy the card details. If it appeared on the slip it would be a whole lot easier. Also PDQ machines separate from tills are actually very common and often seem to be the norm rather than the exception. Yes, yes they do! That is why there are PCI - payment card industry - regulations. Merchants are required to keep the copies - with all the details! - for a period of 6 months. 6 months because during that time a payment can be disputed. After 6 months all receipts must be shredded to destroy them. To clear up the debate about customer not present. As DSM has already mentioned it is wholly possible to put through a transaction WITHOUT the CVV, using the numbers from a card. These payments still need to be authorised, either verbally or in writing - such as a signature on an hotel registration form. Not every card machine is authorised to do this, as additional dispensation is needed from the card machine regulators - hence why some posters say yes and some say no! Hopefully this clears up the debate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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