trousers Posted 18 June, 2012 Share Posted 18 June, 2012 Well, I have been contacted again! Short version. They're not giving the money back. They sent some laughable proof. Slightly longer version blogged (with Vehicle Check In Document linked, official document fans! ):- http://frigsociety.com/2012/06/18/europclowns/ trousers inspired the title* *this may be changed if/when Europcar legal get on the case Thanks - royalty invoice I the post! Next move for me would be to report this fraud to your credit card company. Second, I would refer the wording of the contract to the Office of FAIR Trading. There used to be something called the "Unfair Contracts Act", which probably still exists. Basically, companies aren't LEGALLY allowed to hide behind a contract that is deemed unreasonable in the first place. And, IIRC, it's not something that you have to concern yourself with at the time of signing said contract. A contract can be deemed "unfair" retrospectively. Oh, and have you copied in Anne Robinson and Matt Albright yet...? New series coming up in the autumn.., Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 18 June, 2012 Share Posted 18 June, 2012 Personally, I think you should write a thank you note to Paddy. With Paddy and his ability to do his job, none of this would have happened. Paddy has become an instant legend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 18 June, 2012 Share Posted 18 June, 2012 This smacks of a company wanting to squeeze a relatively small amount of 'excess' out of their customers so what they do is go in hard with a maximum excess demand and then reduce it to a level whereby you feel you've got a victory by getting what feels like a significant reduction. I bet this psychological tactic sucks in a fair few people (across the industry, not just with this company of course...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsland Red Posted 18 June, 2012 Share Posted 18 June, 2012 It seems to me once they have your credit card details you're fair game, as they can draw out what they please. I hired a car from Europcar, Naples airport for a week a few years ago with CDW. Returned it with no damage. Found an extra 500 Euros taken off my credit card on the next bill and queried this with Europcar UK who seemed to acknowledge that the Italians were good at this, but couldn't refund me the monies as they are separate company from Europcar Italy. Never got any monies returned, and have never used Europcar since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 18 June, 2012 Author Share Posted 18 June, 2012 Well, I'm certainly not going to be using them ever again. To put it very charitably, they're a bunch of scoundrels. The narrative they've constructed is so bloody wafer-thin that it might have led to a less chunderous end to Mr Creosote's trip to the restaurant. Given the other supporting evidence ( e.g. shedloads of people complaining about the same thing ) I'm starting to think that trousers has the right of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Majestic Channon Posted 18 June, 2012 Share Posted 18 June, 2012 Budget at gatwick withdrew 180 quid from my account 3 days after i returned the car for damage that never was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 18 June, 2012 Share Posted 18 June, 2012 Once upon a time I returned a rental car to Heathrow. I noted the time and the mileage, the guy who checked the car in said "no need for a receipt". One week later I got a bill for 500+ quid for damage and 5 extra days rentals. I queried it and got the same responses as pap. I then went to war, sent my Boarding pass & luggage tags to HSBC Credit Card department and the time & mileage information and told them I would refuse to pay the CC bill and they would have to take me to court. After a week they realised I may be talking sense and they got on the task. The money was removed from my account and eventually I got a reply saying sorry. I still have never used Europcar since. It DID teach me one major lesson. ALWAYS wait and ALWAYS get the receipt and ALWAYS get the receiver to confirm the no damage box. It adds about 10 minutes to the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suewhistle Posted 18 June, 2012 Share Posted 18 June, 2012 I've hired a car only twice in my [over :-(] half century of life and this story is one of the reasons why. The second time I dropped off the car at LGW only last week and made sure somebody had a look at it before I departed. I'll be checking my next credit card statement with care. As it happens I managed to block the CC on the day I left coz I got the pin wrong, but I'll still check to make sure... The guy who was returning his car before me had a problem with his windscreen. I quipped sympathetically "that's how the bu***rs make their money", and he smiled ruefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 18 June, 2012 Author Share Posted 18 June, 2012 Once upon a time I returned a rental car to Heathrow. I noted the time and the mileage, the guy who checked the car in said "no need for a receipt". One week later I got a bill for 500+ quid for damage and 5 extra days rentals. I queried it and got the same responses as pap. I then went to war, sent my Boarding pass & luggage tags to HSBC Credit Card department and the time & mileage information and told them I would refuse to pay the CC bill and they would have to take me to court. After a week they realised I may be talking sense and they got on the task. The money was removed from my account and eventually I got a reply saying sorry. I still have never used Europcar since. It DID teach me one major lesson. ALWAYS wait and ALWAYS get the receipt and ALWAYS get the receiver to confirm the no damage box. It adds about 10 minutes to the process. You are quite right - and tbh, there has been a lot of good advice on this issue on this forum. Another real positive out of this thread was finding out about third party hire car insurance - definitely something I'll be taking in future. But yep. Take photos the minute you receive the car. Take photos the minute you hand it back and as dubai_phil says, do the bloody walkaround! (artistic licence, dp!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 19 June, 2012 Author Share Posted 19 June, 2012 Spoke with a solicitor today. He thinks he can rip it apart, but it'd end up costing me loads more than the money they still owe me. Watchdog it is, then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 19 June, 2012 Share Posted 19 June, 2012 Spoke with a solicitor today. He thinks he can rip it apart, but it'd end up costing me loads more than the money they still owe me. Watchdog it is, then. Reporting the 'fraud' to your credit card provider is free too.... But, in all seriousness, I think Watchdog would be interested in this story...especially as it has the potential for widespread appeal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 19 June, 2012 Share Posted 19 June, 2012 Reporting the 'fraud' to your credit card provider is free too.... But, in all seriousness, I think Watchdog would be interested in this story...especially as it has the potential for widespread appeal Also, most of the weekend broadsheets carry very good consumer advice sections and would, I'm sure, be very interested in this story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint si Posted 19 June, 2012 Share Posted 19 June, 2012 Why not go via small claims court? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torres Posted 19 June, 2012 Share Posted 19 June, 2012 Why not go via small claims court? This. If you issue them a writ they will almost certainly settle without contesting it in court unless they are 99.99% sure you are wrong. In addition, add a healthy sum on for your damages and they'll settle on a smaller amount. My father-in-law (to be) is a master at this and has won against a couple of insurance companies, a minicab company an energy company and a couple of others. He takes no shi-te from anyone! Edit - In fact, even the threat of issuing a writ will probably be enough to get your full £800 back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 19 June, 2012 Share Posted 19 June, 2012 Just one other tiny lesson for others that may help. Because I travel back & forth I usually get a rental car for an average of around 25/30 days a year. Every time I refuse the extra insurance (it often costs an extra 15/20 quid a day. Worked out years ago that I could actually afford to have one crash every 14 months and still save money. Only times I ever take the extra insurance is when I am doing something like Glastonbury (that was lucky a caravan caught fire that day and the paintwork was burnt) and on my hols last couple of weeks when I was planning on a shed load of driving. In all that time - say 15 years I've only had that one fire issue which would have cost me the 500 quid excess, but the money I saved means I can now have about 10 crashes and still be in pocket. (The ex-wife once had a rental - she mashed the front of the car, we took it in and swapped it, 4 days later they sent me notice that they were going to charge me a claim for the 500 quid and then they promptly went bust the next day - another tip - try and use the cheaper guys not the big ones, you may get to keep the wheels for a month extra as there is nowhere to return it to! We tried to take it back got a jobsworth from the Administrator who refused to accept it and we only got asked to take it back some 2 months later, just as the ex was coming back from hols.) pap - going the publicity route won't help much (apart from make you feel better) just do the googling and follow the instructions to make a small claims counterclaim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 19 June, 2012 Author Share Posted 19 June, 2012 Why not go via small claims court? I've written my covering letter and printed the invoice. I'll send that to Europcar first with a threat of a writ. Apparently, the courts don't like it if you don't try and resolve it normally first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 19 June, 2012 Author Share Posted 19 June, 2012 This. If you issue them a writ they will almost certainly settle without contesting it in court unless they are 99.99% sure you are wrong. In addition, add a healthy sum on for your damages and they'll settle on a smaller amount. My father-in-law (to be) is a master at this and has won against a couple of insurance companies, a minicab company an energy company and a couple of others. He takes no shi-te from anyone! Edit - In fact, even the threat of issuing a writ will probably be enough to get your full £800 back. Thanks for the advice - I've worked this in. I charged them 15 hours of my time at my hourly rate, plus the money they still owe me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clapham Saint Posted 19 June, 2012 Share Posted 19 June, 2012 Just one other tiny lesson for others that may help. Because I travel back & forth I usually get a rental car for an average of around 25/30 days a year. Every time I refuse the extra insurance (it often costs an extra 15/20 quid a day. Worked out years ago that I could actually afford to have one crash every 14 months and still save money. Only times I ever take the extra insurance is when I am doing something like Glastonbury (that was lucky a caravan caught fire that day and the paintwork was burnt) and on my hols last couple of weeks when I was planning on a shed load of driving. In all that time - say 15 years I've only had that one fire issue which would have cost me the 500 quid excess, but the money I saved means I can now have about 10 crashes and still be in pocket. (The ex-wife once had a rental - she mashed the front of the car, we took it in and swapped it, 4 days later they sent me notice that they were going to charge me a claim for the 500 quid and then they promptly went bust the next day - another tip - try and use the cheaper guys not the big ones, you may get to keep the wheels for a month extra as there is nowhere to return it to! We tried to take it back got a jobsworth from the Administrator who refused to accept it and we only got asked to take it back some 2 months later, just as the ex was coming back from hols.) pap - going the publicity route won't help much (apart from make you feel better) just do the googling and follow the instructions to make a small claims counterclaim. Really? Muppet (him not you). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micky Posted 20 June, 2012 Share Posted 20 June, 2012 I really would prefer that you go the Watchdog route with this one so that we can watch it all unfold on TV....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwaysaint Posted 1 July, 2012 Share Posted 1 July, 2012 Just got back from the UK where I had a car from Enterprise. Never used them before and was very pleased. had a full walk around with a member of their staff before and after so no danger of damage claims. The price was about a hundred quid better than any of the other companies and I was upgraded too (Seat Exeo estate, basically a Passat for about £170 for the week). One word of advice for anyone travelling with a family is always to try to give the impression you're a single business traveller. Like at hotels, they'll treat you far better and give you the best car they can. I try to pick up the car and return it by myself and clean out any mess the kids have made myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 24 July, 2012 Author Share Posted 24 July, 2012 Yaargh, matey! They've paid the final £152 back. They're not too keen on paying for my time though! http://frigsociety.com/2012/07/24/europcar-the-final-countdown/ Looks like they're on the ropes to me. Reckon it's worth pursuing them for "my time" still? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 24 July, 2012 Share Posted 24 July, 2012 Great result! 10 out of 10 for stickability. I reckon you should hang in there for payment for your time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingbattigger Posted 24 July, 2012 Share Posted 24 July, 2012 By returning your money they have admitted they were in the wrong so yep stick to your guns for payment for time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 24 July, 2012 Share Posted 24 July, 2012 Yep, I agree. You're entitled to compensation. Even if they don't cough up you'll have the satisfaction of using up more of their money in their time than it would have cost them to pay you compensation in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micky Posted 24 July, 2012 Share Posted 24 July, 2012 Yo, go Pap go....!!!! If you've suffered loss of earnings because of their incompetence (and the fact that they have now ceded in this matter is testimony to the fact that they were incompetent), a realistic compensation claim for time spent administering this case and any loss of other contractual earnings would not seem unreasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 24 July, 2012 Author Share Posted 24 July, 2012 Right, I've written another letter! I've politely thanked them for the return of my money, but indicated that I consider all time spent in pursuit of this cash to be a direct result of their incompetence. Updated my invoice to reflect time spent today, and off it'll go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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