Question to those loyal that bleed red & white

[thefuriousb]

...but currently are not attending home matches:

 

If the club said that it would not sell any of the "crown jewells" (Surman, Lallana, Morgan) if they were able to offload the high earners from the wage bill (Stern, Rasiak, Saga, Euell, Rudi & Dyer, would you return to the club and support the current crop of youngsters (who for me personally have rekindled my optimism after last season's disappointments)?

 

This season is the most important in the club's history IMO. We, as supporters, can play our part in ensuring we survive/stay up etc

 

I am aware that the question I raise is hypothetical and by no means is it entirely plausible that the board could make such a commitment if the banks are pulling the strings. However, it would show that the club is what matters in all of this - thats from both sides (the board and the fans).

[Snowballs2]

...but currently are not attending home matches:

 

If the club said that it would not sell any of the "crown jewells" (Surman, Lallana, Morgan) if they were able to offload the high earners from the wage bill (Stern, Rasiak, Saga, Euell, Rudi & Dyer, would you return to the club and support the current crop of youngsters (who for me personally have rekindled my optimism after last season's disappointments)?

 

This season is the most important in the club's history IMO. We, as supporters, can play our part in ensuring we survive/stay up etc

 

I am aware that the question I raise is hypothetical and by no means is it entirely plausible that the board could make such a commitment if the banks are pulling the strings. However, it would show that the club is what matters in all of this - thats from both sides (the board and the fans).

 

 

No the return will coincide with the departure of Lowe and Wilde. We may have to wait some time though

[Wes Tender]

Rubbish. The return will coincide with Saints being good again, either winning a few games, or getting towards the top, or for many, getting promoted.

 

Very, very few are staying away just because of Lowe. The fans I know, whether they dislike him or not, put their love for Saints far above their thoughts on any board member. If you have the opportunity to go and pass it up because you have issues with a chairman then I don't see why you'd come back. If it's really that easy to stay away. There are countless fans who'd love to go every game but simply can't afford it, or live too far away.

 

Where were all the fans last time Lowe left? Higher attendences than now perhaps, but didn't that conveniently coincide with us spending lots of money on players and hoping to go up? If no money had been spent, if players had been sold instead, would the crowds have even been that big? Of course not.

 

If we end up a crap team without Lowe, we'll have poor attendences. If we end up a good team with Lowe, we'll have good attendences. Likewise if we're good without Lowe, we'll get more people in. The people who take this personal grudge so far as to stop attending games of a club they supposedly support are minimal in number, and IMO, a group we can do without.

 

Always amusing to hear people attempting to second guess what the principles of others are and what makes them tick. Then the same people often beat them with the stick that they are killing the club by not paying their hard-earned dosh to watch the youth team and then in the next breath state that we can probably do without the likes of them.

[dubai_phil]

Always amusing to hear people attempting to second guess what the principles of others are and what makes them tick. Then the same people often beat them with the stick that they are killing the club by not paying their hard-earned dosh to watch the youth team and then in the next breath state that we can probably do without the likes of them.

 

Maybe, just maybe, the game on Saturday marked a point where the boysh turned into men.

 

Probably not, as I think it's still too early.

 

As for attendances, for every political absentee there are as many if not more who don't go because they don't connect with the players yet, they don't see what they regard as good entertainment or they have too many other problems in the current climate. It seems to be similar at many clubs at the moment.

 

Even with results picking up, people everywhere are worried about spending any money at the moment, and even with a 4 game unbeaten run at home we'll probably struggle to turn in a 25k+ attendance

[WGC Saint]

Since giving up my ST several years ago, I have tried to watch at least 8 games a season - both home and away - but have only been once this season.

 

The overwhelming reason I'm abstaining is that like everyone else I'm finding "money too tight to mention" and the one game I have been to (Barnsley at SMS) I arrived half an hour late due to the M25 and was then treated to absolute ****e from the team.

 

I was cheesed off that we didn't keep NP and have yet to see anything from JP and the boys (Saturdays result aside mind) that is likely to lure me to open my wallet and risk the M25 again to watch them.

 

That said, I am going to the Forest game at SMS due to the prices being cut and seeing relatives pre-Xmas.

 

If prices were cut for the rest of the season (or even kids for a quid etc) I'd be far more inclined to make the effort.

[thefuriousb]

Since giving up my ST several years ago, I have tried to watch at least 8 games a season - both home and away - but have only been once this season.

 

The overwhelming reason I'm abstaining is that like everyone else I'm finding "money too tight to mention" and the one game I have been to (Barnsley at SMS) I arrived half an hour late due to the M25 and was then treated to absolute ****e from the team.

 

I was cheesed off that we didn't keep NP and have yet to see anything from JP and the boys (Saturdays result aside mind) that is likely to lure me to open my wallet and risk the M25 again to watch them.

 

That said, I am going to the Forest game at SMS due to the prices being cut and seeing relatives pre-Xmas.

 

If prices were cut for the rest of the season (or even kids for a quid etc) I'd be far more inclined to make the effort.

 

I guess it is very difficult to "see anything from JP and the boys" if you haven't seen us play.

 

I can say I have been thoroughly entertained with the way we have tried to play "football", even the defeats on sky to QPR and Cov.

 

May be I am just more of a perpetual optimist than even many of my close friends would believe?

[VectisSaint]

...but currently are not attending home matches:

 

If the club said that it would not sell any of the "crown jewells" (Surman, Lallana, Morgan) if they were able to offload the high earners from the wage bill (Stern, Rasiak, Saga, Euell, Rudi & Dyer, would you return to the club and support the current crop of youngsters (who for me personally have rekindled my optimism after last season's disappointments)?

 

This season is the most important in the club's history IMO. We, as supporters, can play our part in ensuring we survive/stay up etc

 

I am aware that the question I raise is hypothetical and by no means is it entirely plausible that the board could make such a commitment if the banks are pulling the strings. However, it would show that the club is what matters in all of this - thats from both sides (the board and the fans).

I'm not a stay-away in terms of boycotting, but I would personally be as angry about getting rid of Rudi and Euell as I would the youngsters. One of the reasons I see for a slight improvement in the last couple of weeks is the dawning realisation that some experience is necessary, not just KD, but also playing Perry, Rudi and (when not suspended) Euell. I don't care too much about the others (Rasiak and John) who are currently not costing us much/anything (in fact have probably earned us some loan fees), Rasiak for one does not appear to fit into our system. Dyer is gone as far as I am concerned, and to be honest no great loss. I think it is also clear that Spiderman is the key, if we can keep him, and keep him playing, then we could be OK. It will be interesting to see Gasmi when he finally makes the breakthrough.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

...but currently are not attending home matches:

 

If the club said that it would not sell any of the "crown jewells" (Surman, Lallana, Morgan) if they were able to offload the high earners from the wage bill (Stern, Rasiak, Saga, Euell, Rudi & Dyer, would you return to the club and support the current crop of youngsters (who for me personally have rekindled my optimism after last season's disappointments)?

 

This season is the most important in the club's history IMO. We, as supporters, can play our part in ensuring we survive/stay up etc

 

I am aware that the question I raise is hypothetical and by no means is it entirely plausible that the board could make such a commitment if the banks are pulling the strings. However, it would show that the club is what matters in all of this - thats from both sides (the board and the fans).

 

I haven't stopped going, and never will. those that have are not proper fans. Proper fans go to games and support the team. End of. You can sit there and puff out your chests, cross your arms and shake your head like toddlers, and you can use all the arguments in the book, but if you don't go because of Lowe, personally (and you probably won't care),I look down on you. It's like trying to take something seriously from someone like Rbert Kilroy Silk. They sat it authoritatively, but you still smile, shake your head and take no notice.

[RinNY]

To those who go on and on about Lowe/Wilde as the source of all that is wrong at SFC: you might want to check out some of the other clubs that have been relegated from the Prem over the years: Nottingham Forest, Sheffield Wednesday, Leeds United, Charlton Athletic to name a few. They all struggle with the same sorts of problems we struggle with: crippling financial burdens imposed by trying to operate on CCC (or even League 1) revenues when you have a Premiership infrastructure and costs. Even the likes of Norwich, Crystal Palace, Watford are paying dearly for their year or two in the Prem. Now I know you're going to say it was Lowe's fault we were relegated, but get real! Lowe made mistakes, but if the players on the pitch had known how to hold onto leads in at least 4 key matches (Boro, Everton, Arsenal away, Aston Villa) we'd have had 9 more points and remained comfortably in the Prem. We got relegated because of a variety of things going wrong, including mistakes by Lowe; but then every year 3 clubs get relegated and Saints have no divine dispensation to avoid that fate. Since then, having missed re-promotion by a hair, we have been struggling with financial problems that are typical for relegated clubs. With or without Lowe, we'd face the same difficulties, because the problem lis not in the people running any particular club, but in the current structure of football in England.

 

I understand people not liking Lowe for his pompous persona, his perceived arrogance, or whatever. But that doesn't make him the devil incarnate, nor the source of all Saints' woes. We've seen what happened when Lowe was pushed out and replaced by fans (Wilde, Crouch) as chairmen and "real professionals" (Hone, Hoos) running things: no significant difference, except that Lowe would at least have kept our costs more in line with the income streams and limited the financial dangers to the club, as he is doing now.

 

Get over your obsession with the man, do, and just support the club and team!

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

To those who go on and on about Lowe/Wilde as the source of all that is wrong at SFC: you might want to check out some of the other clubs that have been relegated from the Prem over the years: Nottingham Forest, Sheffield Wednesday, Leeds United, Charlton Athletic to name a few. They all struggle with the same sorts of problems we struggle with: crippling financial burdens imposed by trying to operate on CCC (or even League 1) revenues when you have a Premiership infrastructure and costs. Even the likes of Norwich, Crystal Palace, Watford are paying dearly for their year or two in the Prem. Now I know you're going to say it was Lowe's fault we were relegated, but get real! Lowe made mistakes, but if the players on the pitch had known how to hold onto leads in at least 4 key matches (Boro, Everton, Arsenal away, Aston Villa) we'd have had 9 more points and remained comfortably in the Prem. We got relegated because of a variety of things going wrong, including mistakes by Lowe; but then every year 3 clubs get relegated and Saints have no divine dispensation to avoid that fate. Since then, having missed re-promotion by a hair, we have been struggling with financial problems that are typical for relegated clubs. With or without Lowe, we'd face the same difficulties, because the problem lis not in the people running any particular club, but in the current structure of football in England.

 

I understand people not liking Lowe for his pompous persona, his perceived arrogance, or whatever. But that doesn't make him the devil incarnate, nor the source of all Saints' woes. We've seen what happened when Lowe was pushed out and replaced by fans (Wilde, Crouch) as chairmen and "real professionals" (Hone, Hoos) running things: no significant difference, except that Lowe would at least have kept our costs more in line with the income streams and limited the financial dangers to the club, as he is doing now.

 

Get over your obsession with the man, do, and just support the club and team!

 

Could not agree more. We need to collate all the sensible, rational posts and put them in one thread for people to refer to.

[Wes Tender]

Could not agree more. We need to collate all the sensible, rational posts and put them in one thread for people to refer to.

 

...and appoint Dibden Purlieu Saint as the sole arbiter of what constitutes a sensible rational post. His word will be law in such matters, as he has proved inconclusively that he always knows what he is talking about.

[70's Mike]

To those who go on and on about Lowe/Wilde as the source of all that is wrong at SFC: you might want to check out some of the other clubs that have been relegated from the Prem over the years: Nottingham Forest, Sheffield Wednesday, Leeds United, Charlton Athletic to name a few. They all struggle with the same sorts of problems we struggle with: crippling financial burdens imposed by trying to operate on CCC (or even League 1) revenues when you have a Premiership infrastructure and costs. Even the likes of Norwich, Crystal Palace, Watford are paying dearly for their year or two in the Prem. Now I know you're going to say it was Lowe's fault we were relegated, but get real! Lowe made mistakes, but if the players on the pitch had known how to hold onto leads in at least 4 key matches (Boro, Everton, Arsenal away, Aston Villa) we'd have had 9 more points and remained comfortably in the Prem. We got relegated because of a variety of things going wrong, including mistakes by Lowe; but then every year 3 clubs get relegated and Saints have no divine dispensation to avoid that fate. Since then, having missed re-promotion by a hair, we have been struggling with financial problems that are typical for relegated clubs. With or without Lowe, we'd face the same difficulties, because the problem lis not in the people running any particular club, but in the current structure of football in England.

 

I understand people not liking Lowe for his pompous persona, his perceived arrogance, or whatever. But that doesn't make him the devil incarnate, nor the source of all Saints' woes. We've seen what happened when Lowe was pushed out and replaced by fans (Wilde, Crouch) as chairmen and "real professionals" (Hone, Hoos) running things: no significant difference, except that Lowe would at least have kept our costs more in line with the income streams and limited the financial dangers to the club, as he is doing now.

 

Get over your obsession with the man, do, and just support the club and team!

 

why can you not do both?

[Colinjb]

If there was some intent shown to retain the core quality that there is in our young squad then yes. I would be inclined to return. If a player submits a transfer request and is sold, fine. But if a barely respectable bid is made and they leave in January I would be most dissapointed and continue to stay away.

 

I want to support a club and football team, not a group of assetts.

[Alanh]

If there was some intent shown to retain the core quality that there is in our young squad then yes. I would be inclined to return. If a player submits a transfer request and is sold, fine. But if a barely respectable bid is made and they leave in January I would be most dissapointed and continue to stay away.

 

I want to support a club and football team, not a group of assetts.

 

Pathetic reasoning for an adult IMO. How can you make your support today conditional on second guessing what might happen in the future? Saints, just like every other team see players come and go. It seems ridiculous to say "I'm only going to see them today if X players will still be at the club in the future" - it's still Saints, they'll still be a bunch of players in red and white stripes who want to win the game as much if not more that each of the fans in the crowd.

 

You need to decide what you support - individual players, the team or some other aspect of whatever Saints means to you.

[Fan The Flames]

We were rudderless under Lowe, hes very average, he never had a plan he just reacted to events. When he went the hope was we would get a management team with a vision for pushing on, now he's back that hope has gone.

[70's Mike]

Pathetic reasoning for an adult IMO. How can you make your support today conditional on second guessing what might happen in the future? Saints, just like every other team see players come and go. It seems ridiculous to say "I'm only going to see them today if X players will still be at the club in the future" - it's still Saints, they'll still be a bunch of players in red and white stripes who want to win the game as much if not more that each of the fans in the crowd.

 

You need to decide what you support - individual players, the team or some other aspect of whatever Saints means to you.

 

another better fan post

[Alanh]

If there was some intent shown to retain the core quality that there is in our young squad then yes. I would be inclined to return. If a player submits a transfer request and is sold, fine. But if a barely respectable bid is made and they leave in January I would be most dissapointed and continue to stay away.

 

I want to support a club and football team, not a group of assetts.

 

Sorry, I missed your last line, which is equally pathetic IMO. The players have a value thanks to their contracts and they are employed by a company, therefore they are, along with just about every other footballer in the world, an asset. There is no way that is going to change so you need to get your head around it or forget the idea of supporting any professional team.

[Alanh]

another better fan post

 

Trite response, but if you want to see it that way so be it.

 

I'm not trying to claim I'm a better fan that Colinjb or anyone else, just pointing out that IMO his views are flawed and insubstantiated.

[70's Mike]

Sorry, I missed your last line, which is equally pathetic IMO. The players have a value thanks to their contracts and they are employed by a company, therefore they are, along with just about every other footballer in the world, an asset. There is no way that is going to change so you need to get your head around it or forget the idea of supporting any professional team.

 

5000 have this season

[Colinjb]

Sorry, I missed your last line, which is equally pathetic IMO. The players have a value thanks to their contracts and they are employed by a company, therefore they are, along with just about every other footballer in the world, an asset. There is no way that is going to change so you need to get your head around it or forget the idea of supporting any professional team.

 

Wow, I have never felt so patronised to the point of anger on here before. So as such I will not respond straight away but will give myself time to calm down first.

[Colinjb]

Ok.

 

I (along with many others) have a more romantic view of football then a lot of other people. I think logically and rationally during the week and come the weekend love nothing more then to watch football and entertaining the more romantic notions in my mind. And I used to get a lot of pride and joy watching a settled competitive team. Both of those things have now dissappeared.

 

I get no pleasure from the concept of supporting a business. Of watching a team of saleable assetts, I get pleasure from watching a settled team I can identify with fighting for a win.

 

Football is a recreational activity, it shouldn't be a chore. And supporting Saints right now is that. Especially when you factor in a 4 hours round trip every other weekend. I respect those who are going to games regardless, I really do. But I have more important things to give my emotional and financial support to then a PLC which has left me numb for the last 5 years.

[Snowballs2]

Rubbish. The return will coincide with Saints being good again, either winning a few games, or getting towards the top, or for many, getting promoted.

 

Very, very few are staying away just because of Lowe. The fans I know, whether they dislike him or not, put their love for Saints far above their thoughts on any board member. If you have the opportunity to go and pass it up because you have issues with a chairman then I don't see why you'd come back. If it's really that easy to stay away. There are countless fans who'd love to go every game but simply can't afford it, or live too far away.

 

Where were all the fans last time Lowe left? Higher attendences than now perhaps, but didn't that conveniently coincide with us spending lots of money on players and hoping to go up? If no money had been spent, if players had been sold instead, would the crowds have even been that big? Of course not.

 

If we end up a crap team without Lowe, we'll have poor attendences. If we end up a good team with Lowe, we'll have good attendences. Likewise if we're good without Lowe, we'll get more people in. The people who take this personal grudge so far as to stop attending games of a club they supposedly support are minimal in number, and IMO, a group we can do without.

 

 

 

Rubbish !! Saints will not be good again until the living dead leave the club

[JohnnyFartPants]

Rubbish !! Saints will not be good again until the living dead leave the club

 

At least you made your point in a decent manner not using any over the top or overly dramatic wordings.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh.

[J Bizzle]

I only go to games which are affordable, i am a student in bristol, so only really go to away games atm, been to a couple of home games this season, just costs a lot of money.

[lordswoodsaints]

...but currently are not attending home matches:

 

If the club said that it would not sell any of the "crown jewells" (Surman, Lallana, Morgan) if they were able to offload the high earners from the wage bill (Stern, Rasiak, Saga, Euell, Rudi & Dyer, would you return to the club and support the current crop of youngsters (who for me personally have rekindled my optimism after last season's disappointments)?

 

This season is the most important in the club's history IMO. We, as supporters, can play our part in ensuring we survive/stay up etc

 

I am aware that the question I raise is hypothetical and by no means is it entirely plausible that the board could make such a commitment if the banks are pulling the strings. However, it would show that the club is what matters in all of this - thats from both sides (the board and the fans).

 

how can you be loyal,bleed red and white but not attend home games?

if you dont attend home games then you cannot be loyal and you deffo dont bleed red and white.

[Viking Warrior]

...............

Edited 7 December, 2008 by Viking Warrior

[derry]

The count is about 3 boycotts on here. Whilst everyone is entitled to an opinion and do whatever they like, it appears to me, there are fewer than 20, who come on here and support a boycott. I happen to think, the dire football last year, together with near relegation, has made up a lot of people's minds not to go, that and the cost.

 

And before anybody starts on, I detest the arrogant, interfering, know it all.

[kelkel31]

I thought this thread was a carefully concealed attempt to bring the anti lowe brigade to the fore. I was right.

 

Lets get this straight shall we If your a proper saints fan , then it doesn't matter who is in charge. Its about the team , I have seen some major highs in the many years I have supported saints eqaully I have seen some **** years, but I still keep going.

 

If the likes of that C*** alpine wants to be ultra negative fine. As for Chris newman I used to like him but he is not a real fan, hes jumped on the anti lowe wagon. ;like he did at the days of the Sisa campaign of throwing Season tickets into the bin wih his fellow cohorts foley, and chorley, trouble with that campaign was that neither chorley and co had season tickets.

 

I was at reading on saturday met a few old mates. Hows your knee Saint Wilf , I had not realised you were only three rows in front of me.

 

 

Anyway for me saints is for life irrespective whose in charge

 

proper fans dont care whos in charge,what utter rubbish. real fans have to care whos in charge, they have to care what direction there club is taking and they have to do something about it when they are unhappy. how the hell did mr branfoot leave the club, the fans! difference between then and now, nobody can agree on the best course of action.

 

i am a ST holder and attend all home games, i bought my ticket before lowes return and have refused to attend any away games or buy any merchandise while hes here, because my money will never be used to improve the club.

 

with the reduction in attendances(7000) we have had, to think that a good part of that is not down to lowe place at the club is just you using rose colored spectacles.

[Tac-tics]

Im meaning to return but as its my first year off being independant I find it really hard to get back up there with all the effort when in a matter of weeks 3 key players are rumoured to be sold.

 

But no overall I will return the minute my bank balance allows me and on my own, no matter what league and team we field.

[thefuriousb]

...and appoint Dibden Purlieu Saint as the sole arbiter of what constitutes a sensible rational post. His word will be law in such matters, as he has proved inconclusively that he always knows what he is talking about.

 

Yet you find your own constitute a sensible rational post?

[thefuriousb]

how can you be loyal,bleed red and white but not attend home games?

if you dont attend home games then you cannot be loyal and you deffo dont bleed red and white.

 

If you read many a comment on the echo site or on here, those that no longer attend preface what they are about to say by stating.."I'm a loyal supporter and /or I bleed red and white"

 

It was a genuine question to those that are not attending, but with a little joshing thrown in

[manji]

No the return will coincide with the departure of Lowe and Wilde. We may have to wait some time though

Utter delusional nonsense.Gates did NOT go up when Lowe left last time.

Most fans are not attending because we lose games,are not in the Premier playing "glamorous" clubs and we havnt got "name" players.

Fairweather fans in other words.

[Michelle]

how can you be loyal,bleed red and white but not attend home games?

if you dont attend home games then you cannot be loyal and you deffo dont bleed red and white.

 

So what you're effectively saying is that people who don't go to home games aren't loyal? So those that can't afford it, those that live thousands of miles away, those that have work commitments preventing them from attending games, they're not loyal fans?

 

Insane.

[wild-saint]

when you pick a team, you pick it for life in sickness and in health. We are sick and in need of the help of ou fans to keep afloat. When a team is in decline, support dwindles and you are left with the true fans. Those are the facts and the 13-14k are indeed those.

[Ash]

If there was some intent shown to retain the core quality that there is in our young squad then yes. I would be inclined to return. If a player submits a transfer request and is sold, fine. But if a barely respectable bid is made and they leave in January I would be most dissapointed and continue to stay away.

 

I want to support a club and football team, not a group of assetts.

What a load of bull****. If that is genuinely how you feel football probably isn't for you, every team in the country is made up of a group of assets.

Staying away from football because you disagree with the way the club is being run has to be one of the biggest loads of cack I have heard (and I've been reading this forum for years so that is saying something).

[Alanh]

Ok.

 

I (along with many others) have a more romantic view of football then a lot of other people. I think logically and rationally during the week and come the weekend love nothing more then to watch football and entertaining the more romantic notions in my mind. And I used to get a lot of pride and joy watching a settled competitive team. Both of those things have now dissappeared.

 

I get no pleasure from the concept of supporting a business. Of watching a team of saleable assetts, I get pleasure from watching a settled team I can identify with fighting for a win.

 

Football is a recreational activity, it shouldn't be a chore. And supporting Saints right now is that. Especially when you factor in a 4 hours round trip every other weekend. I respect those who are going to games regardless, I really do. But I have more important things to give my emotional and financial support to then a PLC which has left me numb for the last 5 years.

 

So all you are really saying is that you've fallen out of love with the matchday experience - why didn't you say that in the first place instead of coming out with (IMO) rubbish about concerns over retaining the quality in the team, not wanting to support 'assets' and yearning after some halcyon days which I don't think have ever existed.

[Colinjb]

So all you are really saying is that you've fallen out of love with the matchday experience - why didn't you say that in the first place instead of coming out with (IMO) rubbish about concerns over retaining the quality in the team, not wanting to support 'assets' and yearning after some halcyon days which I don't think have ever existed.

 

Because they are key concerns I have now which have come to the fore due to our current position. Aspects of the game I admit I dislike in all proffesional football but due to the fact I support Saints, have more of an effect here.

 

As an observation it is amazing how much vitriol a differing opinion can cause on here. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, football does bring out the worst in people.

Edited 26 November, 2008 by Colinjb

[lordswoodsaints]

So what you're effectively saying is that people who don't go to home games aren't loyal? So those that can't afford it, those that live thousands of miles away, those that have work commitments preventing them from attending games, they're not loyal fans?

 

Insane.

 

correct,loyal fans attend games,they buy merchandise and they support the club through good times and bad.

the people you are describing are just casual supporters or just plain fans.

loyalty costs money im afraid.

[Viking Warrior]

.................

Edited 7 December, 2008 by Viking Warrior

[Fan The Flames]

Lets get this straight shall we If your a proper saints fan , then it doesn't matter who is in charge. Its about the team.

 

Anyway for me saints is for life irrespective whose in charge

 

But it matters to 'proper fans' what we are called, where we play, what players we have, what colours we play in, what the stadium is called, who the manager is, how much the beer costs, etc etc so why not who's in charge.

 

Just because people want a change to one aspect of the club doesn't mean they are not proper fans and I think you will find that those who spend time on here are Saints fans for life, just some want change and others don't, no big deal.

[corsacar saint]

Fan The Flames, your last sentence is spot on .[ For a lot who post on here].

[Viking Warrior]

..,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Edited 7 December, 2008 by Viking Warrior

[saintrich]

So those that can't afford it

 

 

Most can afford it. It's just they prioritise other things first...

 

When people say they can't afford it, in most cases - they'd rather do something else.

 

I was working part-time last year, as well as attending college and still managed to make every home game and about 18 aways.

 

Hardly loyal wanting to do something else.

[St Will]

Hows your knee Saint Wilf , I had not realised you were only three rows in front of me.

 

Haha did you see me go flying?! My whole kneecap is black and yellow from the bruising....surprisingly it didn't hurt after about 5 minutes - I think the cold numbed the pain!! I think it was the shoes I was wearing...I kept feeling my balance falling forward the whole game - I nearly went over a couple more times too!

[Wes Tender]

But it matters to 'proper fans' what we are called, where we play, what players we have, what colours we play in, what the stadium is called, who the manager is, how much the beer costs, etc etc so why not who's in charge.

 

Just because people want a change to one aspect of the club doesn't mean they are not proper fans and I think you will find that those who spend time on here are Saints fans for life, just some want change and others don't, no big deal.

 

Absolutely correct. And as for those who state that others who cannot attend because of reasons of cost or distance are not true fans, that is absurd and not even worth acknowledging.

 

Counter to the flawed argument that if one can attend and choose not to, one is not a true fan, it can be argued that those who perceive that the club is being badly run and campaign actively to remove those responsible are actually better fans than those who tacitly support the regime that might cause the club to go out of business by doing nothing.

 

That is the other side of the coin. The board relies on the blind devotion of a certain number who will attend regardless of how poor the fare is on display, regardless of whether the price is poor value, regardless of how badly they run the club, just because they are fans. Well, seemingly they have badly misjudged the fans, unless of course they had budgeted for attendances of sub 15,000, which I doubt.

[Wes Tender]

I was shocked to pay 3.30 for a pint of fosters at the majesdki stadium

It was flat and had obviously been poured several hours later.

 

I asked for a straw and was asked why my response was to blow some life into the flat beer he had just sold me. he was not pleased.

 

Leaving aside the main debate for a moment. Why did you accept the flat beer? Surely you should have refused it, as was your right.

 

Interesting to observe that because people are prepared to accept shoddy goods and not refuse to pay for them, Reading FC will continue to sell flat beer, whereas if they had numerous people refusing to pay for it, they would very soon rectify the problem.

 

Do you see any parallels with the fare on offer at our Club, perchance? One is entirely entitled to complain if the product is not of good quality or too expensive, but if not enough complain it will be taken as a sign that most find it acceptable. It is a problem with the British. You go to a restaurant and eat a poor meal. The waiter or proprietor asks whether everything was alright and you mumble "Fine thanks". Then on the way out, you mumble "That was awful. We won't go there again"

 

That is precisely the situation at our Club and why attendances have fallen to this level.

[Snowballs2]

Absolutely correct. And as for those who state that others who cannot attend because of reasons of cost or distance are not true fans, that is absurd and not even worth acknowledging.

 

Counter to the flawed argument that if one can attend and choose not to, one is not a true fan, it can be argued that those who perceive that the club is being badly run and campaign actively to remove those responsible are actually better fans than those who tacitly support the regime that might cause the club to go out of business by doing nothing.

 

That is the other side of the coin. The board relies on the blind devotion of a certain number who will attend regardless of how poor the fare is on display, regardless of whether the price is poor value, regardless of how badly they run the club, just because they are fans. Well, seemingly they have badly misjudged the fans, unless of course they had budgeted for attendances of sub 15,000, which I doubt.

 

Absolutely correct, it just seems that the few pro Lowes on here have suddenly got together in a concerted campaign to try and defend the Lowe record. This in itself is indefensible since he was previously voted out as being devisive, arrogant and objectionable.

Why they think second time round that he has changed is beyond belief.

[londonsaint1604]

Absolutely correct. And as for those who state that others who cannot attend because of reasons of cost or distance are not true fans, that is absurd and not even worth acknowledging.

 

Counter to the flawed argument that if one can attend and choose not to, one is not a true fan, it can be argued that those who perceive that the club is being badly run and campaign actively to remove those responsible are actually better fans than those who tacitly support the regime that might cause the club to go out of business by doing nothing.

 

That is the other side of the coin. The board relies on the blind devotion of a certain number who will attend regardless of how poor the fare is on display, regardless of whether the price is poor value, regardless of how badly they run the club, just because they are fans. Well, seemingly they have badly misjudged the fans, unless of course they had budgeted for attendances of sub 15,000, which I doubt.

 

You should think carefully about that middle paragraph because to me that makes no sense and you are contradicting yourself, unless I've misunderstood completely. You're basically saying fans who attend regardless of which evil despot is running the club are doing more harm because they are supporting a regime that could put the club out of business. But you're backing those who would stay away as protest even though they are more likely to contribute to the club going out of business by staying away.

 

The bottom line is that all football clubs experience ups and downs and you have to just accept that right now things aren't looking up for saints. Forget all this petty scapegoating of lowe and the board, all we can do as fans is go and support the team as much as possible and hope the very talented young players we have can continue to improve and things will start to look bright again.

[Wes Tender]

Yet you find your own constitute a sensible rational post?

 

Yes.

[Viking Warrior]

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Edited 7 December, 2008 by Viking Warrior