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while you talk about a school of hard knocks for Hamilton. Remember that whilst most other drivers have to work their way up the teams in order to get a decent drive, hamilton's first season was in a championship winning level car. He nearly won the titile in his first year and then did in his 2nd (before the car went a bit down hill). He has never ever had to slug it out with a Sauber, Toro Rosso, Force India and such like

 

F1 is very much about the car. More so than ever before and because of that the excitement over hamilton (who started off at in a title winning car) is not as it could be.

He is a class driver, no doubt but F1 is nearly all about the car. More so as Rosberg isnt even the 2nd best driver in the field..probably not even the 3rd or 4th best. But he is in the top 3 (will probably finish runner up) thanks to his car

 

 

F1 is such a dull event

 

Yes, the car is always key and it's also true that the young Lewis started his F1 career in the seat of a very competitive McLaren indeed. Obviously few other drivers are ever fortunate enough to be gifted such a wonderful initial opportunity. You can rest assured however that Lewis would not have been in that car in the first place had Ron Dennis doubted his raw speed and level of ability. His first F1 title soon confirmed that this show of faith invested in him was not at all misplaced.

 

After a couple of seasons McLaren F1 lost its competitive edge and LH wasted years in utterly hopeless cars that didn't offer him much of a chance at the title. He also faced a series of personal problems he needed to address and overcome before he became the driver he is today. That (oh-so-human) maturing process he underwent is one of the reasons I admire him so.

 

As for F1 being ''dull'' ... well I can only presume that people who say this just don't bother to watch every race anymore because - at its best - this sport is still quite the most trilling sporting spectacle you'll ever see IMO.

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Yes, the car is always key and it's also true that the young Lewis started his F1 career in the seat of a very competitive McLaren indeed. Obviously few other drivers are ever fortunate enough to be gifted such a wonderful initial opportunity. You can rest assured however that Lewis would not have been in that car in the first place had Ron Dennis doubted his raw speed and level of ability. His first F1 title soon confirmed that this show of faith invested in him was not at all misplaced.

 

After a couple of seasons McLaren F1 lost its competitive edge and LH wasted years in utterly hopeless cars that didn't offer him much of a chance at the title. He also faced a series of personal problems he needed to address and overcome before he became the driver he is today. That (oh-so-human) maturing process he underwent is one of the reasons I admire him so.

 

As for F1 being ''dull'' ... well I can only presume that people who say this just don't bother to watch every race anymore because - at its best - this sport is still quite the most trilling sporting spectacle you'll ever see IMO.

 

so, very few school of hard knocks for Hamilton. compared to nearly every other driver in history. Bar 2 or 3

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Yes, the car is always key and it's also true that the young Lewis started his F1 career in the seat of a very competitive McLaren indeed. Obviously few other drivers are ever fortunate enough to be gifted such a wonderful initial opportunity. You can rest assured however that Lewis would not have been in that car in the first place had Ron Dennis doubted his raw speed and level of ability. His first F1 title soon confirmed that this show of faith invested in him was not at all misplaced.

 

After a couple of seasons McLaren F1 lost its competitive edge and LH wasted years in utterly hopeless cars that didn't offer him much of a chance at the title. He also faced a series of personal problems he needed to address and overcome before he became the driver he is today. That (oh-so-human) maturing process he underwent is one of the reasons I admire him so.

 

As for F1 being ''dull'' ... well I can only presume that people who say this just don't bother to watch every race anymore because - at its best - this sport is still quite the most trilling sporting spectacle you'll ever see IMO.

 

I am old school and used to go to Brands Hatch a lot in the 60s and 70s. As well as the British Grand Prix they also used to host the Race of Champions so we got to see Formula 1 twice a year. The only time the cars would pull into the pits was if there was something wrong with the car (or changing tyres if it started to rain) and they would race flat out from start to finish without any of this phaffing about with pit stops every 5 minutes. The race tracks seemed more interesting then and had hills - they all seem to be flat and the same now. I just cant get into it these days but guess it is just an age thing. Formula 5000 was cool too. F1 style cars with 5 litre engines. Happy days!

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I am old school and used to go to Brands Hatch a lot in the 60s and 70s. As well as the British Grand Prix they also used to host the Race of Champions so we got to see Formula 1 twice a year. The only time the cars would pull into the pits was if there was something wrong with the car (or changing tyres if it started to rain) and they would race flat out from start to finish without any of this phaffing about with pit stops every 5 minutes. The race tracks seemed more interesting then and had hills - they all seem to be flat and the same now. I just cant get into it these days but guess it is just an age thing. Formula 5000 was cool too. F1 style cars with 5 litre engines. Happy days!

 

There were also a fair few fatal accidents...something that has now been quasi-eliminated in Formula 1 processions. Only happens now when someone does something really stupid.

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Very pleased Lewis won his 3rd title in Austin the weekend before last, followed his career from his very first race in Australia in 2007 up to now and seen him grow as a person and a Driver. Been an absolutely amazing season and a well deserved 3rd world title, best driver in F1 at the minute, would love to see him and Vettel battle it out next season, hope the 2016 Ferrari is up to the task!

 

Also hope Button's McLaren is better next season, Alonso reckons they can make up 2.5 seconds over the Winter, but I think that sounds incredibly far-fetched, just hope that they're able to challenge for Podiums or at the very least 5th/6th places next year.

 

Loved the Mexican GP, thought the track was amazing, I was sceptical about Tilke redesigning the track and taking out the Peraltada but the redesign they chose, going into that stadium section was absolutely amazing, the atmosphere for the Podium was the best I can remember as well, even better than Monza I think, glad F1 is back in Mexico.

 

Looking forward to 2016, I always think the more races on the calendar the better and the Azerbaijan track will be interesting next year, hoping to get to the Austrian GP next year, went to the Australian in March and was lucky enough to see Lewis win.

 

F1 is such a dull event

 

Have a watch of these, then come back and tell me F1 is dull:

 

 

 

 

Edited by BlakeySFC
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There were also a fair few fatal accidents...something that has now been quasi-eliminated in Formula 1 processions. Only happens now when someone does something really stupid.

 

I agree that the sport is a lot safer now. The risk of fire was always great but it seems odd now that you could run off the track and hit a tree! Jackie Stewart had a lot to do with making the sport safer.

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Loved the Mexican GP, thought the track was amazing, I was sceptical about Tilke redesigning the track and taking out the Peraltada but the redesign they chose, going into that stadium section was absolutely amazing, the atmosphere for the Podium was the best I can remember as well, even better than Monza I think, glad F1 is back in Mexico.

 

Really?

 

I thought Tilke's Mexico redesign was his worst yet. He turned one of the fastest flowing old school F1 tracks into a cluster**** of two straights and a neverending quagmire of narrow, slow corners. The irony of them honouring Mansell's insane overtake round the outside of the Peraltada by naming the carcass that was left after him I found quite amusing. The frustrating thing is Tilke can design good circuits (Istanbul, Singapore, Austin) but they just seem to vastly prefer stop-start circuits of long straights and hairpin-chicanes that all look the same and don't flow whatsoever.

 

They blatantly removed the Peraltada purely for commercial reasons so they could make use of the stadium. I don't buy the safety argument at all, compare the potential space at the old peraltada with T4 at Sochi

 

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@19.4047874,-99.0968454,3a,75y,165.31h,71.04t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1scUvtSAQJdoNMTsOMyl0B0w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1?hl=en

 

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Sochi+Autodrom/@43.4078218,39.9546453,3a,75y,276.07h,74.07t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sQXWITOHQo3kdToYgaW6z_g!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DQXWITOHQo3kdToYgaW6z_g%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D280.78012%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656!4m2!3m1!1s0x40f59514657440c9:0x876213fab509159a!6m1!1e1?hl=en

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Yeah I'm sure it was mainly so they could use the Baseball stadium, but I loved it I must say, the race itself wasn't great but I thought the track had a unique old-new mix to it between the original circuit that had been tarted up with a lick of paint and the new section through the Baseball stadium.

 

I think the circuit was largely unchanged anyway, they re-painted and resurfaced the kurbs and put in some run off areas and sponsorship logos here there and everywhere, but I think the only corner that was taken out was the Peraltada, everything else just looked new, but was actually already there I believe.

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Yeah I'm sure it was mainly so they could use the Baseball stadium, but I loved it I must say, the race itself wasn't great but I thought the track had a unique old-new mix to it between the original circuit that had been tarted up with a lick of paint and the new section through the Baseball stadium.

 

I think the circuit was largely unchanged anyway, they re-painted and resurfaced the kurbs and put in some run off areas and sponsorship logos here there and everywhere, but I think the only corner that was taken out was the Peraltada, everything else just looked new, but was actually already there I believe.

 

The whole circuit has been changed significantly

 

Turns 2 and 3 have been tightened up and made slower

Turns 4 and 5 have been tightened up and made slower

Turn 6 has been tightened up and made slower

Short straight added between 6 and 7

The Esses section has been narrowed and tightened

Peraltada replaced with the baseball stadium section.

 

The idea of the original circuit was that it started slow and gradually built up. The pre-'92 circuit was largely full throttle from the second half of the esses all the way round to turn 1. Now the whole circuit is a slow clumsy car park.

 

I just don't get why they deliberately design circuits to be tight, twisty and boring. What F1 needs are fast flowing circuits in the same vein as Imola pre '94. Just with proper run off areas and safety features that mean drivers can't crash into unprotected concrete walls.

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... I just don't get why they deliberately design circuits to be tight, twisty and boring. What F1 needs are fast flowing circuits in the same vein as Imola pre '94. Just with proper run off areas and safety features that mean drivers can't crash into unprotected concrete walls.

 

What fans and TV seem to want most is more overtaking in Formula 1. DRS technology was introduced with this objective in mind and I suppose most overtaking happens in breaking zones, rather than in the fast flowing corners you (and many drivers I think) enjoy so.

 

To change the subject, were you too watching that bloody awful San Marino Grand Prix from Imola back in 1994? If you were then I'd expect you would agree that was not a experience that is easily forgotten ...

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What fans and TV seem to want most is more overtaking in Formula 1. DRS technology was introduced with this objective in mind and I suppose most overtaking happens in breaking zones, rather than in the fast flowing corners you (and many drivers I think) enjoy so.

 

To change the subject, were you too watching that bloody awful San Marino Grand Prix from Imola back in 1994? If you were then I'd expect you would agree that was not a experience that is easily forgotten ...

 

Imola '94 was where it all came to a head. That weekend seemed to be cursed, it was just one thing after another. Barrichello's accident, Ratzenberger's death, Senna's death, the Lehto/Lamy accident where debris flew into the crowd and injured spectators, Alboreto's wheel flying off in the pit lane and injuring numerous mechanics, it was unbelievable.

 

There's one key thing that the Senna/Ratzenberger fatal crashes had in common. Neither of them died because of Imola's track layout, they both died because of lax safety procedures/measures. They both hit unprotected concrete barriers, yes unprotected concrete barriers at two of the fastest parts of the track where speeds were close to 200mph. Safety back then was simply "that'll do", it was a complete after-thought. The safety car had only just been reintroduced and the pit lane didn't even have a speed limit (I think it was Keke Rosberg that once clocked 160mph in the pit lane).

 

We now have significantly stronger cars, far better protected drivers, the HANS device, wheel tethers, TecPro barriers, proper run-off and numerous safety measures to more than accommodate fast flowing circuits that made F1 great to watch back in the day. T4 at Sochi and that quadruple left at Turkey prove that it can be done in this age where cars are taken to their cornering limits in a safe way.

 

The tragic thing about Bianchi's death was that his accident was a carbon copy of an accident Martin Brundle had 20 years earlier. The only difference was Brundle missed the tractor and instead hit a marshal.

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The whole circuit has been changed significantly

 

Turns 2 and 3 have been tightened up and made slower

Turns 4 and 5 have been tightened up and made slower

Turn 6 has been tightened up and made slower

Short straight added between 6 and 7

The Esses section has been narrowed and tightened

 

All very minor changes for the most part then really, apart from the straight between turns 6 and 7, did not realise they'd added that, I liked it though I must say, mainly because of the atmosphere created in the Baseball section rather than the track itself though I guess, although I was too young to remember them racing around the '92 track so maybe that's why, seen the Mansell Peraltada overtake though, and it is just incredible.

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All very minor changes for the most part then really, apart from the straight between turns 6 and 7, did not realise they'd added that, I liked it though I must say, mainly because of the atmosphere created in the Baseball section rather than the track itself though I guess, although I was too young to remember them racing around the '92 track so maybe that's why, seen the Mansell Peraltada overtake though, and it is just incredible.

 

All minor changes although they made the slower part of the circuit even slower and the majority of the fast part of the circuit slow.

 

I do get them wanting to use the baseball stadium, it is certainly unique but it ruins the rhythm of the circuit. I bet it didn't even occur to them to try and compensate for the loss of the Peraltada by speeding up another section of the track. The reason I say this is because so many of the newer circuits seem the same, and even look the same visibly. It's the love of this incessant stop-startness that takes away of the lot of the sport's excitement.

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All minor changes although they made the slower part of the circuit even slower and the majority of the fast part of the circuit slow.

 

I do get them wanting to use the baseball stadium, it is certainly unique but it ruins the rhythm of the circuit. I bet it didn't even occur to them to try and compensate for the loss of the Peraltada by speeding up another section of the track. The reason I say this is because so many of the newer circuits seem the same, and even look the same visibly. It's the love of this incessant stop-startness that takes away of the lot of the sport's excitement.

 

Really ? I'd have thought that the fact that one manufacturer dominates the sport entirely is what takes away the excitement.

Just now you know that the races will be dominated by Hamilton and Rosberg and that the others won't get a look in unless there is some sort of race incident. It's a borefest, the circuits just don't make a lot of difference unless they're of the "street" variety.

Edited by Window Cleaner
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Really ? I'd have thought that the fact that one manufacturer dominates the sport entirely is what takes away the excitement.

Just now you know that the races will be dominated by Hamilton and Rosberg and that the others won't get a look in unless there is some sort of race incident. It's a borefest, the circuits just don't make a lot of difference unless they're of the "street" variety.

 

One team dominating is a different issue though. The sport has to be a spectacle and the cars need to be taken to the limit, not cruise around hairpins.

 

On a slightly different note, good article by Coulthard

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/34703811

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One team dominating is a different issue though. The sport has to be a spectacle and the cars need to be taken to the limit, not cruise around hairpins.

 

On a slightly different note, good article by Coulthard

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/34703811

 

Coulthard seems to write some good stuff, see he's on about Honda today. Realistically I'd prefer that McLaren bin this garbage engine and try to get something at least acceptable for next season. Won't happen though and we'll be seeing Alonso and Button sitting by the side of tracks again.

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Nico very impressive the last couple of races, wonder if he can carry it into next season and make more of a fight of it?

 

Of course not, not unless he has a complete change of mental attitude. He is a bottler, plain and simple. Cracks under pressure. Has the talent to win and win easily, but as soon as he needs to do it, mistakes pop in and he flaps.

 

If he had a weaker team mate he would have won this season, but a driver like Lewis - who lets face it can be a bit of a **** at times - knows how to get into Nico's mind.

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Yeah, have to agree with Pancake, he is an absolute bottler let's be honest, I mean the mechanical retirements he's suffered this season have been a bit unfortunate I guess but making a mistake like he did at Austin just does not happen to World Champions, you'd never see Hamilton or Button make an error like that under pressure.

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Of course not, not unless he has a complete change of mental attitude. He is a bottler, plain and simple. Cracks under pressure. Has the talent to win and win easily, but as soon as he needs to do it, mistakes pop in and he flaps.

 

If he had a weaker team mate he would have won this season, but a driver like Lewis - who lets face it can be a bit of a **** at times - knows how to get into Nico's mind.

 

This

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