Channon's Sideburns Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 My view is that once Admin arrives we will see Rupert suddenly find investors....when the REAL gains are there to be found. David Ross anyone? Must have time on his hands now.. Tom Scott? Jersey Businessman linked a while back Lord Marland? Scooby???! (LOL) Sundance Double crossing so and so....let's just hope he stitches Wilde up in the process as payback. At least we'd get some satisfaction after he stitched US up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 Highly likely.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 Rumoured to be under control in short term - but relegation would clearly change that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channon's Sideburns Posted 9 January, 2009 Author Share Posted 9 January, 2009 Highly likely.. Alps, interested in your views on what you think is going to happen - I know you get given stick on here sometimes....but history has shown you're rarely off the mark with your observations.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_saints Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 Is this supposed to be interesting?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channon's Sideburns Posted 9 January, 2009 Author Share Posted 9 January, 2009 Is this supposed to be interesting?? Where the future of this once great club is concerned, yes. Same scenario as the TV bud, if you don't like the channel you look at something else. My club is being run into the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 Is this supposed to be interesting?? Probably not to ostriches, TBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowballs2 Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 Is this supposed to be interesting?? Probably to everyone bar you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Bones Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 Hmmm - heres one for all the bean counters and law grad's. Can a figurehead from a company that has gone into administrion revisit the said company to purchase ? Unsure if Ken Bates was involved in somehting similar ??? Just seems odd a manager who takes a company to the wall can actually pick up the peices - so to speak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 Hmmm - heres one for all the bean counters and law grad's. Can a figurehead from a company that has gone into administrion revisit the said company to purchase ? Unsure if Ken Bates was involved in somehting similar ??? Just seems odd a manager who takes a company to the wall can actually pick up the peices - so to speak I'm not a bean counter or Law Graduate but I can say that I saw a programme recently on a Department store in the North of England that went into administration and was bought back after a loss of staff by the original owners. Don't ask me how this works but it was definately the outcome, to my surprise. Can't comment on Bates at Leeds as not sure how that worked. Charlie Miller posted something about this on the admin aftermath thread which looked interesting from a pre-admin point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 Amid all the falsely reported denials, wasn't Paul Allen quoted as saying that he would snap up the club but only after we go into administration? Someone could have made that up of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 Amid all the falsely reported denials, wasn't Paul Allen quoted as saying that he would snap up the club but only after we go into administration? Someone could have made that up of course. Can't remember seeing it Trousers but would be interesting to see if there's a quote around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965onwards Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 When administration is announced,suggest Saints fans take out injunction to prevent administrator stitching up deal with Lowe and/or Wilde until their conduct in office has been looked at by DTI(or todays equivalent). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundance Beast Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 My view is that once Admin arrives we will see Rupert suddenly find investors....when the REAL gains are there to be found. David Ross anyone? Must have time on his hands now.. Tom Scott? Jersey Businessman linked a while back Lord Marland? Scooby???! (LOL) Sundance Double crossing so and so....let's just hope he stitches Wilde up in the process as payback. At least we'd get some satisfaction after he stitched US up. Paranoia or merely confirmation what many of us were saying at the start of last year. Smart investors or circling vultures are not going to want to invest in a company that they know they can purchase for a £1 post administration. Barclays purchase of Lehman Brothers in the US is on another scale but illustrates the point perfectly. Called in to rescue the bank at the last hour Barclays waited until after the inevitable and simply walked back in cherry picked the bits of the company they wanted for an absolute bargain price. Why would shrewd investors in the football world act any differently? Of course there will be investors post administration and Rupert Lowe won't have to go looking for them they'll be knocking down his door. Perhaps we could concentrate on the fact that Lowe for all his shortcomings he is actually trying to act in best interest of shareholders and supporters alike and protect our interests and those of the club. This can only be done if anti-lowe protesters stop their ignorant refusal to accept the previous two seasons have really put us into meltdown and not Lowe's actions from his previous reign. If you believe Lowe set the snowball in motion why didn't those who took over stop it from rolling? Because they would have had to implement plans that would not be deemed fan friendly and therefore revert back to the fiscal prudence of Lowe's regime. Do we battle for our survival or wave the white flag and rollover and accept our fate? Or shall we ***** over Lowe like a bunch of paraniod teenage girls? Seriously most of you are turning this forum into a parody of a football fans forum. You are making the club looked ridiculous and it's no wonder we are classed of being one of the top 5 clubs with the most fickle and moany fanbase. I suspect Charlton fans come on here just to cheer themselves up, so perhaps its time we stop the pantomine guessing and simply concentrate on the reality and importance of support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 Hmmm - heres one for all the bean counters and law grad's. Can a figurehead from a company that has gone into administrion revisit the said company to purchase ? Unsure if Ken Bates was involved in somehting similar ??? Just seems odd a manager who takes a company to the wall can actually pick up the peices - so to speak Oh dear, it would seem not. Only bankrupts are debarred from company directorships: An undischarged bankrupt is in any event prohibited from acting as a director or taking part or being concerned directly or indirectly in the promotion, formation or management of a company except with the permission of the court by which he was adjudged bankrupt during the currency of his bankruptcy. 5 Solicitor's Office guidance should be sought in cases where it is proposed to prosecute a bankrupt Here's a link to a good explanation of bankruptcy, administration, liquidation, receivership etc. http://www.hse.gov.uk/enforce/enforcementguide/investigation/identifying/insolvency.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 Why would shrewd investors in the football world act any differently? Oxymoron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channon's Sideburns Posted 9 January, 2009 Author Share Posted 9 January, 2009 Paranoia or merely confirmation what many of us were saying at the start of last year. Smart investors or circling vultures are not going to want to invest in a company that they know they can purchase for a £1 post administration. Barclays purchase of Lehman Brothers in the US is on another scale but illustrates the point perfectly. Called in to rescue the bank at the last hour Barclays waited until after the inevitable and simply walked back in cherry picked the bits of the company they wanted for an absolute bargain price. Why would shrewd investors in the football world act any differently? Of course there will be investors post administration and Rupert Lowe won't have to go looking for them they'll be knocking down his door. Perhaps we could concentrate on the fact that Lowe for all his shortcomings he is actually trying to act in best interest of shareholders and supporters alike and protect our interests and those of the club. This can only be done if anti-lowe protesters stop their ignorant refusal to accept the previous two seasons have really put us into meltdown and not Lowe's actions from his previous reign. If you believe Lowe set the snowball in motion why didn't those who took over stop it from rolling? Because they would have had to implement plans that would not be deemed fan friendly and therefore revert back to the fiscal prudence of Lowe's regime. Do we battle for our survival or wave the white flag and rollover and accept our fate? Or shall we ***** over Lowe like a bunch of paraniod teenage girls? Seriously most of you are turning this forum into a parody of a football fans forum. You are making the club looked ridiculous and it's no wonder we are classed of being one of the top 5 clubs with the most fickle and moany fanbase. I suspect Charlton fans come on here just to cheer themselves up, so perhaps its time we stop the pantomine guessing and simply concentrate on the reality and importance of support. SB, I hope you take 10 secs of your time to re-read my post. I stated that they would appear once Admin was put into place, therefore allowing Messrs Lowe and Wilde to remain in charge sans debts.. You seem to conveniently forget that Leon Crouch was pressing the Wilde Execs to implement a Plan B? Who was proposing to close the corners in the first place? Who opposed the signing of Euell by the WILDE Execs? Leon. Well, I hope it's sunny in your Ivory Lowe Tower - remember that in paragraph 2 when you quote Barclays, you have probably in fact released a clue as to Rupert's plan all along. You may think it is conspiracy theory, I think that it's all part of a business plan, but by two not-so-successful businessmen. Next time you think he's acting in the best interests of the shareholders, remember his 'performance' at the AGM. You seem to explain his aims quite succinctly, do you know him??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundance Beast Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 I'm not a bean counter or Law Graduate but I can say that I saw a programme recently on a Department store in the North of England that went into administration and was bought back after a loss of staff by the original owners. Don't ask me how this works but it was definately the outcome, to my surprise. Can't comment on Bates at Leeds as not sure how that worked. Charlie Miller posted something about this on the admin aftermath thread which looked interesting from a pre-admin point of view. MFI was orginally saved by a management buyout and look what happened to them recently. Ergo, Lowe will buy us for £1 after administration and take us into administration again ....ooooh how scary. There are many options all of which you will all switch into some conspiracy theory that Lowe is out to get you. You are all beginning to embarrass yourselves just a bit and thankfully there are at least another 12,000 regular supporters going to games who don't share your views or are more ambivalent at any rate. This can be supported by the comments on the articles on the Echo website where the comments are much more balanced and have a less anti-Lowe aganeda apart from one ot two seriously unhinged and unhappy individuals. Anyone read UTS's comments on there? Not exactly someone you want on your side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundance Beast Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 Oxymoron Quite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 Perhaps we could concentrate on the fact that Lowe for all his shortcomings he is actually trying to act in best interest of shareholders and supporters alike and protect our interests and those of the club. This can only be done if anti-lowe protesters stop their ignorant refusal to accept the previous two seasons have really put us into meltdown and not Lowe's actions from his previous reign. If you believe Lowe set the snowball in motion why didn't those who took over stop it from rolling? Because they would have had to implement plans that would not be deemed fan friendly and therefore revert back to the fiscal prudence of Lowe's regime. Do we battle for our survival or wave the white flag and rollover and accept our fate? Or shall we ***** over Lowe like a bunch of paraniod teenage girls? Seriously most of you are turning this forum into a parody of a football fans forum. You are making the club looked ridiculous and it's no wonder we are classed of being one of the top 5 clubs with the most fickle and moany fanbase. I suspect Charlton fans come on here just to cheer themselves up, so perhaps its time we stop the pantomine guessing and simply concentrate on the reality and importance of support. How can you say its in the supporters or boards interest to leave someone in charge that is so far out of his depth it hurts? In a recent post of yours you even advocated bringing in Ian Dowie to help instead we are stuck with 3 Dutch management whose tactics and team selections border on farce at times. Hardly in the best interests of the fan or shareholder is it SB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 What is interesting is if you read ALL of the NOV audited accounts and statement which was poste don the LSE site - in which its stated that whilst there is continued support from the bank + the loan notes (SMS Loan), the club can continue as a going concern particularly as it will continue to liquidate assets in 2009 until such a time as the revenue covers costs etc.... BUt the next bit at teh bottom also states that should the banks withdraw their support, then the club will seek 'alternative funding' What this suggests to me is this; That Lowe/Wilde do know of some individuals, perhaps from amongst the existing shareholders, that would be prepared to inject some cash IF and ONLY if it was the last resort to save the club from admin - This is speculation naturally, but I find it odd that this is in the financial statement under the 'going concern' section .... a classic case of reading between the lines or wishful thinking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channon's Sideburns Posted 9 January, 2009 Author Share Posted 9 January, 2009 MFI was orginally saved by a management buyout and look what happened to them recently. Ergo, Lowe will buy us for £1 after administration and take us into administration again ....ooooh how scary. There are many options all of which you will all switch into some conspiracy theory that Lowe is out to get you. You are all beginning to embarrass yourselves just a bit and thankfully there are at least another 12,000 regular supporters going to games who don't share your views or are more ambivalent at any rate. This can be supported by the comments on the articles on the Echo website where the comments are much more balanced and have a less anti-Lowe aganeda apart from one ot two seriously unhinged and unhappy individuals. Anyone read UTS's comments on there? Not exactly someone you want on your side. SB, you are missing the point BIG TIME. It is not about Lowe the person per se, it is his methods and management of this club that is in question. He has not learned anything from the failures of the past, he is blindly following a path which is only going to lead to failure, relegation and administration. The question is this...Why is he here? Someone with 6% shareholding, and other business interests, which quite rightly would probably be more profitable, personally and career wise, it doesn't make sense unless he: a) Is back to gain revenge on those who removed him; b) Is back to show the football establishment that he is a visionary. He hasn't exactly set his stall out on how we are able to progress in the future though has he? Development of the Academy....ahem. Judging by the quality of the current stock he's aiming for the Blue Square Premier....oh and I think that 12,000 you go on about are counted before the game even starts.....nothing like a massaging of the attendances.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Bones Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 What this suggests to me is this; That Lowe/Wilde do know of some individuals, perhaps from amongst the existing shareholders, that would be prepared to inject some cash IF and ONLY if it was the last resort to save the club from admin - Chances that said shareholders could be Lowe /Wilde themselves ??? Or am I just being stupid ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 Alps' date=' interested in your views on what you think is going to happen - I know you get given stick on here sometimes....but history has shown you're rarely off the mark with your observations....[/quote'] I expect us to go into administration and there to be an almighty and very public battle over who caused the problems (doing the dirty laundry in public, in other words) and as to who comes up with the dosh to buy the club outright first - either Lowe (or a group he represents) or Crouch (or a group he represents). If this happens, I expect the battle for control of the club to be VERY ugly. The only other possibility I see is Mike Wilde having another panic attack and switching sides again (or at least terminating his support for Lowe). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 What is interesting is if you read ALL of the NOV audited accounts and statement which was poste don the LSE site - in which its stated that whilst there is continued support from the bank + the loan notes (SMS Loan), the club can continue as a going concern particularly as it will continue to liquidate assets in 2009 until such a time as the revenue covers costs etc.... BUt the next bit at teh bottom also states that should the banks withdraw their support, then the club will seek 'alternative funding' What this suggests to me is this; That Lowe/Wilde do know of some individuals, perhaps from amongst the existing shareholders, that would be prepared to inject some cash IF and ONLY if it was the last resort to save the club from admin - This is speculation naturally, but I find it odd that this is in the financial statement under the 'going concern' section .... a classic case of reading between the lines or wishful thinking? Coincidently, I was re-reading the above sections last night (Sad life? Check!) and those couple of lines about seeking alternative investment stuck out to me too. It did say, if memory serves me correctly, that they would persue 'internal funding' options ahead of 'external funding' which, as you suggest, perhaps indicates that there are still cards up sleeves/rabbits in hats/irons in fires etc.....damn...I new this would all fizzle out into a non-event....here was me starting to see the beginnings of a new broom... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 Paranoia or merely confirmation what many of us were saying at the start of last year. Smart investors or circling vultures are not going to want to invest in a company that they know they can purchase for a £1 post administration. Barclays purchase of Lehman Brothers in the US is on another scale but illustrates the point perfectly. Called in to rescue the bank at the last hour Barclays waited until after the inevitable and simply walked back in cherry picked the bits of the company they wanted for an absolute bargain price. Why would shrewd investors in the football world act any differently? Of course there will be investors post administration and Rupert Lowe won't have to go looking for them they'll be knocking down his door. Perhaps we could concentrate on the fact that Lowe for all his shortcomings he is actually trying to act in best interest of shareholders and supporters alike and protect our interests and those of the club. This can only be done if anti-lowe protesters stop their ignorant refusal to accept the previous two seasons have really put us into meltdown and not Lowe's actions from his previous reign. If you believe Lowe set the snowball in motion why didn't those who took over stop it from rolling? Because they would have had to implement plans that would not be deemed fan friendly and therefore revert back to the fiscal prudence of Lowe's regime. Do we battle for our survival or wave the white flag and rollover and accept our fate? Or shall we ***** over Lowe like a bunch of paraniod teenage girls? Seriously most of you are turning this forum into a parody of a football fans forum. You are making the club looked ridiculous and it's no wonder we are classed of being one of the top 5 clubs with the most fickle and moany fanbase. I suspect Charlton fans come on here just to cheer themselves up, so perhaps its time we stop the pantomine guessing and simply concentrate on the reality and importance of support. What Lowe is doing is probably best for the club in the long term. However Fans are really only interested in today and the team is currently not very good and like most I feel that relegation is almost certain . With relegation there is the uncertainty of the future as we have endured five years of desperation there is the likelihood of that desperation continuing. I would have thought fans want to see success on the field and because that is not happening there is continual negativity. The situation is not helped by the bickering between the main shareholders and the Football Club Chairman seems to have disappeared. It would be nice to get an update from the club on how they see things and what is the likely sceanario in the event of relegation. Whether it is believed or not is another thing. The club needs the fans but does not seem to be doing anything to allay their worries and with no information gloom and doom is the agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 (edited) Coincidently, I was re-reading the above sections last night (Sad life? Check!) and those couple of lines about seeking alternative investment stuck out to me too. It did say, if memory serves me correctly, that they would persue 'internal funding' options ahead of 'external funding' which, as you suggest, perhaps indicates that there are still cards up sleeves/rabbits in hats/irons in fires etc.....damn...I new this would all fizzle out into a non-event....here was me starting to see the beginnings of a new broom... Yes when I read that I thought the same so I thought Administration was unlikely in the short term as we dont appear to be selling everything in sight. That maybe a ploy of course to raise layers transfer prices But who knows? Probably a few people but they are not spilling the beans Edited 9 January, 2009 by John B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cambsaint Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 As I understand it when a company goes into administration, the accountants appointed run the company and decide on the disposal. Of course Lowe could put in a bid, but so could Crouch, Wilde or anybody who could raise enough the moolah to satisfy the administrators. Lowe and his cabal could have got us out of this mess in the recent past by issuing preference shares as a means of lending the club money or even a rights issue. What did they do-when in control- appointed a manager who was allowed to break the bank and previously the club bought back shares thus reducing it's liquidity (I think) and supposedly increasing the share price-presumably because they thought could sell at. I doubt if they will attempt to or even could buy the club up after admin, and unless Lowe has a really wealthy investor in the background I doubt they would want to. Why a really wealthy investor would allow Lowe anywhere near the club after his catalogue of failures, would amaze me!. Worry about the realities don't be paranoid about possibilities. Che sera sera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 Perhaps we could concentrate on the fact that Lowe for all his shortcomings he is actually trying to act in best interest of shareholders and supporters alike and protect our interests and those of the club. This can only be done if anti-lowe protesters stop their ignorant refusal to accept the previous two seasons have really put us into meltdown and not Lowe's actions from his previous reign. If you believe Lowe set the snowball in motion why didn't those who took over stop it from rolling? Because they would have had to implement plans that would not be deemed fan friendly and therefore revert back to the fiscal prudence of Lowe's regime. Do we battle for our survival or wave the white flag and rollover and accept our fate? Or shall we ***** over Lowe like a bunch of paraniod teenage girls? Totally laughable. He may be trying to act in the best interests of shareholders, as he always has, but to even imagine he is trying to act in the best interest of supporters is a total joke. Lowe doesn't even accept there are supporters, we are customers, or we are the lunatic fringe, completely irrelevant to his plans, and completely ignored. You do at least admit that he is "trying" to act in the best interests, sadly "trying" is not good enough. He is failing, and his actions are taking us closer and closer to relegation and probably administration. The current situation is the result not only of the last 2 years (primarily caused by the man propping up Lowe's regime now, Judas Wilde) but also of Lowe's previous mismanagement. The fact of the matter is that Lowe is lauded by some as being some sort of financial genius, whereas the truth is that he is anything but a financial genius and on top of that knows absolutely FA about how to run a football club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 There's a couple of independent market reports of SLH available for download here: http://markets.ft.com/ft/tearsheets/analysis.asp?s=UK%3ASOO One released this week - 7th Jan (Reuters) and the other on 30th Dec 08 (Wrights). Not sure if they'll contain anything we don't already know. Am not quite tempted enough to splash out a tenner on each download to find out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 There's a couple of independent market reports of SLH available for download here: http://markets.ft.com/ft/tearsheets/analysis.asp?s=UK%3ASOO One released this week - 7th Jan (Reuters) and the other on 30th Dec 08 (Wrights). Not sure if they'll contain anything we don't already know. Am not quite tempted enough to splash out a tenner on each download to find out... I would have thought it was related to the annual report They cannot surely publish current figures which are not in the public domain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 There's a couple of independent market reports of SLH available for download here: http://markets.ft.com/ft/tearsheets/analysis.asp?s=UK%3ASOO One released this week - 7th Jan (Reuters) and the other on 30th Dec 08 (Wrights). Not sure if they'll contain anything we don't already know. Am not quite tempted enough to splash out a tenner on each download to find out... LOL have you seen the dates of those reports? Reuters is shown as 7 February 2009 and Wrights is 30 January 2009! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 What Lowe is doing is probably best for the club in the long term. However Fans are really only interested in today and the team is currently not very good and like most I feel that relegation is almost certain . With relegation there is the uncertainty of the future as we have endured five years of desperation there is the likelihood of that desperation continuing. I would have thought fans want to see success on the field and because that is not happening there is continual negativity. I really dont get this post. If the fans cannot or will not buy into the long-term vision Lowe has, and the route he is taking to achieve it, how can it be viewed as "the best for the club". Seems you suffer from the same malaise as Lowe, in failing to recognise how vital the fans are for the future of the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 LOL have you seen the dates of those reports? Reuters is shown as 7 February 2009 and Wrights is 30 January 2009! Yeah...one of the more amusing typos I've seen of late Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 What Lowe is doing is probably best for the club in the long term. However Fans are really only interested in today and the team is currently not very good and like most I feel that relegation is almost certain . With relegation there is the uncertainty of the future as we have endured five years of desperation there is the likelihood of that desperation continuing. I would have thought fans want to see success on the field and because that is not happening there is continual negativity. The situation is not helped by the bickering between the main shareholders and the Football Club Chairman seems to have disappeared. It would be nice to get an update from the club on how they see things and what is the likely sceanario in the event of relegation. Whether it is believed or not is another thing. The club needs the fans but does not seem to be doing anything to allay their worries and with no information gloom and doom is the agenda. Good post John and there seems to be a common interest amongst most of us on here to ascertain what the "end game" might be, how it may happen and most importantly, when. Like many of us, I'm also intrigued by the "external funding" bit, the word "investment" wasn't used yet the world economy doesn't indicate that credit will be easy in any way to locate. Whether that points to a private benefactor, or a re-financing via a different source of private loans I don't know but it is possible perhaps from the likes of Withers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 I would have thought it was related to the annual report They cannot surely publish current figures which are not in the public domain Aye. That's what I thought....which makes one wonder why they go to the trouble of writing these peripheral reports and then try and flog them in the first place? Perhaps they contain some 'informed' opinion of how the club is doing and what is likely to happen in the foreseeable future....again, pretty subjective I'd have thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channon's Sideburns Posted 9 January, 2009 Author Share Posted 9 January, 2009 I really dont get this post. If the fans cannot or will not buy into the long-term vision Lowe has, and the route he is taking to achieve it, how can it be viewed as "the best for the club". Seems you suffer from the same malaise as Lowe, in failing to recognise how vital the fans are for the future of the club. Yep, and watch 'falling attendances and lack of support' being some of Rupert's reasons for our voluntary administration... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 (edited) What Lowe is doing is probably best for the club in the long term. However Fans are really only interested in today and the team is currently not very good and like most I feel that relegation is almost certain . With relegation there is the uncertainty of the future as we have endured five years of desperation there is the likelihood of that desperation continuing. I would have thought fans want to see success on the field and because that is not happening there is continual negativity. The situation is not helped by the bickering between the main shareholders and the Football Club Chairman seems to have disappeared. It would be nice to get an update from the club on how they see things and what is the likely sceanario in the event of relegation. Whether it is believed or not is another thing. The club needs the fans but does not seem to be doing anything to allay their worries and with no information gloom and doom is the agenda. How the hell can you preach(edit - post - preach may not be right here) Lowe and long term in the same sentence? What is long term under old rosey cheeks - 10 managers all leaving for their spiritual home in those 10 years was so unlucky I guess. Of course the fans want success on the pitch and bringing an untried Dutch coach into a team of untried youngsters knowing most of the experienced players were out of contract or forced out is bordering on insanity IMO. A good businessman does not alienate his customer base he did not have to come back and run it in person and there are many other people able to run a club like ours who could report to him if required although the Lowe apologists can never ever see this. Would you believe anything the club says right now after the Saga clearance fiasco? Edited 9 January, 2009 by Give it to Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bungle Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 Alps' date=' interested in your views on what you think is going to happen - I know you get given stick on here sometimes....but history has shown you're rarely off the mark with your observations....[/quote'] History has shown alpine is wrong almost all the times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonah Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 Why do people think the club will go into administration? The biggest creditor by a country mile is Norwich Union - whilst they are getting their repayments in full and on time every year, it is unlikely they would want to call in their loan... whilst they probably have a clause which gives them the right to do so (like most mortgages/loans), if they were to do that we would immediately enter administration and they would never recoup the debt anyway - how much is a stadium worth on eBay? So it's in their interests for us to continue trading. So that only leaves Barclays as being the ones able to pull the rug - and with a £6m overdraft (or whatever it is now) that is a possibility as banks start clawing back their cash. But as the accounts state, if Barclays withdraw their support the club will seek alternative financing whether internal or external so it probably wouldn't mean administration either... but it's clearly a risk. My own personal guess is that Barclays have advised the club that they will be withdrawing the overdraft facility year ending 2009. Of course the sensible thing to do is to take the club out of such a precarious position - ie. pay back the Barclays debt asap and return the club to financial stability. And that's what we're doing. Common sense really isn't it? Come the interims I expect us to have taken a huge step towards reverting to 50-60% wages/turnover, although we may have to dip even lower in order to repay the debt if we don't sell off KD, Surman or Lallana. I'm sure the usual elements of the fanbase will shriek in horror and say Bad Things about RL, but back on planet earth the rest of the fanbase will no doubt see it as a step to recovery. Anyway, by then Yellowstone will have erupted, the IMF will be taking over UK PLC and the imminent bankruptcy of California will kick-start the demise of the US as a civil war leads to a complete seceding of the union. Happy days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channon's Sideburns Posted 9 January, 2009 Author Share Posted 9 January, 2009 History has shown alpine is wrong almost all the times. Hmmm Burley anyone? Poortvliet? Lowe? Wilde? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 I really dont get this post. If the fans cannot or will not buy into the long-term vision Lowe has, and the route he is taking to achieve it, how can it be viewed as "the best for the club". Seems you suffer from the same malaise as Lowe, in failing to recognise how vital the fans are for the future of the club. Of course the fans maybe wrong but something drastic had to be done. If the previous board had run the club successfully Rupert would not be back in charge. Perhaps if Wilde had not taken over we would be in a better position. It is all ifs and buts but the gloom and doom you are pedalling may not be correct. Like me you probably only glean information off the internet. More info from SFC would I think be a good idea but you probably will not beleive it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bungle Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 Hmmm Burley anyone? Poortvliet? Lowe? Wilde? Yup, he was wrong on all of them. Well spotted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 MFI was orginally saved by a management buyout and look what happened to them recently. Ergo, Lowe will buy us for £1 after administration and take us into administration again ....ooooh how scary. There are many options all of which you will all switch into some conspiracy theory that Lowe is out to get you. You are all beginning to embarrass yourselves just a bit and thankfully there are at least another 12,000 regular supporters going to games who don't share your views or are more ambivalent at any rate. This can be supported by the comments on the articles on the Echo website where the comments are much more balanced and have a less anti-Lowe aganeda apart from one ot two seriously unhinged and unhappy individuals. Anyone read UTS's comments on there? Not exactly someone you want on your side. I simply replied to Bones's post by citing a lone example of a owner buy-back post admin that I had seen, well done to BTF on Governmental guidance she has posted. John B has posted below from a perspective that is supportive of Rupert Lowe but understands and takes into account the view of fans on the current unacceptable slide into League 1 and acknowledges the doubts over the appointment of JP which was an unneccessary risk at a dangerous time. You would do well to look at John's approach which puts his points across without getting personal. Most fans DON'T have an anti-Lowe agenda but a pro-SFC agenda and they see Lowe as an obstruction to moving forward which is different. There are a small minority of posters that are fanatical either way which you'll find at any club. Personally I would like to see ALL of the major shareholders depart but it's out of my hands and vast majority of fans on this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channon's Sideburns Posted 9 January, 2009 Author Share Posted 9 January, 2009 Why do people think the club will go into administration? The biggest creditor by a country mile is Norwich Union - whilst they are getting their repayments in full and on time every year, it is unlikely they would want to call in their loan... whilst they probably have a clause which gives them the right to do so (like most mortgages/loans), if they were to do that we would immediately enter administration and they would never recoup the debt anyway - how much is a stadium worth on eBay? So it's in their interests for us to continue trading. So that only leaves Barclays as being the ones able to pull the rug - and with a £6m overdraft (or whatever it is now) that is a possibility as banks start clawing back their cash. But as the accounts state, if Barclays withdraw their support the club will seek alternative financing whether internal or external so it probably wouldn't mean administration either... but it's clearly a risk. My own personal guess is that Barclays have advised the club that they will be withdrawing the overdraft facility year ending 2009. Of course the sensible thing to do is to take the club out of such a precarious position - ie. pay back the Barclays debt asap and return the club to financial stability. And that's what we're doing. Common sense really isn't it? Come the interims I expect us to have taken a huge step towards reverting to 50-60% wages/turnover, although we may have to dip even lower in order to repay the debt if we don't sell off KD, Surman or Lallana. I'm sure the usual elements of the fanbase will shriek in horror and say Bad Things about RL, but back on planet earth the rest of the fanbase will no doubt see it as a step to recovery. Anyway, by then Yellowstone will have erupted, the IMF will be taking over UK PLC and the imminent bankruptcy of California will kick-start the demise of the US as a civil war leads to a complete seceding of the union. Happy days. Except if it is true that Crouch offered £2M to repay the ODraft if Lowe and Wilde matched it, why hasn't that happened then?? That makes common sense to help the relationship and buy the club time. Except Lowe and Wilde aren't interested... Surprise Surprise.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughieslastminutegoal Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 Paranoia or merely confirmation what many of us were saying at the start of last year. Smart investors or circling vultures are not going to want to invest in a company that they know they can purchase for a £1 post administration. They can't buy it for £1 because I'll offer the Administrator £2 and that will be a better offer. Ah, but my mate will offer £5, so he will get it. Damn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 Hmmm Burley anyone? Poortvliet? Lowe? Wilde? In fairness, I supported Wilde at first. Interesting that bungle keeps pulling out this "alps is always wrong" line, but never cites any examples.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joesaint Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 One question. What direction is best for the club. I can't stant lowe AND want saints to do well, I am completly confused and just want and southampton to be proud of. I'm not at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 Why do people think the club will go into administration? The biggest creditor by a country mile is Norwich Union - whilst they are getting their repayments in full and on time every year, it is unlikely they would want to call in their loan... whilst they probably have a clause which gives them the right to do so (like most mortgages/loans), if they were to do that we would immediately enter administration and they would never recoup the debt anyway - how much is a stadium worth on eBay? So it's in their interests for us to continue trading. So that only leaves Barclays as being the ones able to pull the rug - and with a £6m overdraft (or whatever it is now) that is a possibility as banks start clawing back their cash. But as the accounts state, if Barclays withdraw their support the club will seek alternative financing whether internal or external so it probably wouldn't mean administration either... but it's clearly a risk. My own personal guess is that Barclays have advised the club that they will be withdrawing the overdraft facility year ending 2009. Of course the sensible thing to do is to take the club out of such a precarious position - ie. pay back the Barclays debt asap and return the club to financial stability. And that's what we're doing. Common sense really isn't it? Come the interims I expect us to have taken a huge step towards reverting to 50-60% wages/turnover, although we may have to dip even lower in order to repay the debt if we don't sell off KD, Surman or Lallana. I'm sure the usual elements of the fanbase will shriek in horror and say Bad Things about RL, but back on planet earth the rest of the fanbase will no doubt see it as a step to recovery. Anyway, by then Yellowstone will have erupted, the IMF will be taking over UK PLC and the imminent bankruptcy of California will kick-start the demise of the US as a civil war leads to a complete seceding of the union. Happy days. Some of your analysis is good but you are assuming that the board can service the club's overheads. It is far from clear that they are able to do this. Question with no angle here: Where do you think this "external funding" will come from? My guess is re-financing via private loans but I'm as in the dark as anyone else at present. Aviva are unlikely to push for admin as it doesn't make sense for them. Private re-financing via soft loans may cover the Barclays overdraft remaining but we'll still have to cut overheads. Administration is most likely if the board cannot service the overhead costs, don't know if they've got an investor in mind or a recovery plan afterwards, you may know more about the board's intentions than me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 9 January, 2009 Share Posted 9 January, 2009 Paranoia or merely confirmation what many of us were saying at the start of last year. Smart investors or circling vultures are not going to want to invest in a company that they know they can purchase for a £1 post administration. Barclays purchase of Lehman Brothers in the US is on another scale but illustrates the point perfectly. Called in to rescue the bank at the last hour Barclays waited until after the inevitable and simply walked back in cherry picked the bits of the company they wanted for an absolute bargain price. Why would shrewd investors in the football world act any differently? Of course there will be investors post administration and Rupert Lowe won't have to go looking for them they'll be knocking down his door. Good, if obvious first couple of paragraphs, shame about what followed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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