OldNick Posted 23 September, 2019 Share Posted 23 September, 2019 A very sad day, a wake up call for us all as the internet erodes our high street and major comanies in the field. Should the Gov have given them a loan? Im not sure as they are obviously leaking money like theres no tomorrow. How long can you do so? As I said to my son in law at Christmas when he said he didnt care about the high street as he buys it all online. That may be cheaper and more convenient NOW but once the competition from the High street has gone watch the prices then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 23 September, 2019 Share Posted 23 September, 2019 We have our Honeymoon booked with them, which is annoying, so got to try and get a refund and re-book. Sad for those that have lost their jobs though - not a good time to be joining the job market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 23 September, 2019 Share Posted 23 September, 2019 A very sad day, a wake up call for us all as the internet erodes our high street and major comanies in the field. Should the Gov have given them a loan? Im not sure as they are obviously leaking money like theres no tomorrow. How long can you do so? As I said to my son in law at Christmas when he said he didnt care about the high street as he buys it all online. That may be cheaper and more convenient NOW but once the competition from the High street has gone watch the prices then. That's flawed as it implies there is no competition on the internet. People will travel with whoever gives them the best deal for the best price. Internet or high street doesn't really come into it. I can sit in front of my computer for a couple of hours, looking at hundreds of trip advisor reviews and comparison wesbite until I find the best deal for me. The though of having to go into a high street store, which is only open during working hours, and sitting their twiddling my thumbs whilst Sonya puts exactly the same stuff into exactly the same website just seems like a waste of time. I like a bit of high street shopping but only for material goods like clothes and electronics, which I can't properly appreciate from online photos. Anyway, horrible stuff for the staff, who probably still have their own summer holidays to pay off and only a couple of months before Christmas shopping. No the government shouldn't have bailed them out. It would be like the FL bailing out Bury or Bolton. It sounds nice but really it's just encouraging reckless financial management and isn't fair on other, properly run companies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 23 September, 2019 Share Posted 23 September, 2019 Imagine a lot of older people will still want to visit a travel agent. Actually having a person there to Q and A about your trip is reassuring for many. On The Beach and similar are crp. Have no skills on end of support line and often the offer you think you’re booking isn’t there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbul Posted 23 September, 2019 Share Posted 23 September, 2019 A very sad day, a wake up call for us all as the internet erodes our high street and major comanies in the field. Should the Gov have given them a loan? Im not sure as they are obviously leaking money like theres no tomorrow. How long can you do so? As I said to my son in law at Christmas when he said he didnt care about the high street as he buys it all online. That may be cheaper and more convenient NOW but once the competition from the High street has gone watch the prices then. Price transparency is clearer online so if anything competition will be more fierce imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Keith Posted 23 September, 2019 Share Posted 23 September, 2019 i read last week that they had to sell 300 million holidays a year just to break even. Madness! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 23 September, 2019 Share Posted 23 September, 2019 Annoyingly I've paid to go to a wedding in Greece next year with my wife and daughter which I've just discovered is with Thomas Cook Airlines. Luckily I paid via credit card so should be covered for most of it but its a right pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 23 September, 2019 Author Share Posted 23 September, 2019 Price transparency is clearer online so if anything competition will be more fierce imo. Im not sure price transparency is clearer. A poster higher up mentioned how the older tourists like to speak to someone and get reassured, I fit in that group. Buying from a photo is a dangerous game, in my own business I see the games that go on and there are many fools out there who look at photo then price, boy do they often buy badly. Frustrating for myself as I see what is happening, if they came into the business and saw the difference then they wouldn't make the mistake. Sadly my own business is 80%+ internet and I have to follow the trend but building a business by reputation is hard as it is not local anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctoroncall Posted 23 September, 2019 Share Posted 23 September, 2019 Thomas Cook owed £1.5bn at the end of 2011 after asking £200m from its lenders. Since then the directors have received at least £20m in bonuses, while debt had risen by at least another £200m. A nice gig for the directors while the 9,000 staff have to find new employment and worry about their pension pot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 23 September, 2019 Share Posted 23 September, 2019 Thomas Cook owed £1.5bn at the end of 2011 after asking £200m from its lenders. Since then the directors have received at least £20m in bonuses, while debt had risen by at least another £200m. A nice gig for the directors while the 9,000 staff have to find new employment and worry about their pension pot. Another example of the unacceptable face of capitalism which now seems rampant in big business and is accepted conventional behaviour. To accept a bonus in a failing business should result in court and in extreme cases prison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 23 September, 2019 Share Posted 23 September, 2019 Another example of the unacceptable face of capitalism which now seems rampant in big business and is accepted conventional behaviour. To accept a bonus in a failing business should result in court and in extreme cases prison. You don't put the onus on the receiver, you out it on the board - but this is a difficult one. If someone comes in and reduces the debt of a company from £800m to £200m in a year, then that is better than producing a £500m profit. If you didn't have incentives like that, then the likelihood is no-one would try to turn around companies that have had bad years, and they'd all go the way of Thomas Cook, resulting in far more job losses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 23 September, 2019 Share Posted 23 September, 2019 You don't put the onus on the receiver, you out it on the board - but this is a difficult one. If someone comes in and reduces the debt of a company from £800m to £200m in a year, then that is better than producing a £500m profit. If you didn't have incentives like that, then the likelihood is no-one would try to turn around companies that have had bad years, and they'd all go the way of Thomas Cook, resulting in far more job losses. I can appreciate the logic you are putting forward of course but in this insistence and in all to many cases the contribution to the level of debt is irrelevant. The company has failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 23 September, 2019 Share Posted 23 September, 2019 I can appreciate the logic you are putting forward of course but in this insistence and in all to many cases the contribution to the level of debt is irrelevant. The company has failed. That's not true though - companies can be turned from huge losses to making huge profits over a number of years - it happens all the time. So you think instead of giving bonuses to people that turn companies around, we should just let the businesses fail? As soon as a loss takes place, and debt is accrued, the business should fail? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 23 September, 2019 Share Posted 23 September, 2019 That's not true though - companies can be turned from huge losses to making huge profits over a number of years - it happens all the time. So you think instead of giving bonuses to people that turn companies around, we should just let the businesses fail? As soon as a loss takes place, and debt is accrued, the business should fail? Yes we have all watched pretty woman but I think that before bonuses are awarded then the company should be demonstrably on the road to profitability. Board members should expect a high level of scrutiny if they award themselves huge awards based on short term gains and not long term sustainability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 24 September, 2019 Share Posted 24 September, 2019 Annoyingly I've paid to go to a wedding in Greece next year with my wife and daughter which I've just discovered is with Thomas Cook Airlines. Luckily I paid via credit card so should be covered for most of it but its a right pain. Probably more of a pain for those losing their jobs and pensions to be fair. I see the other airlines are cashing in, pushing up seats by 500% in some cases. How can they justify that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 24 September, 2019 Share Posted 24 September, 2019 Yes we have all watched pretty woman but I think that before bonuses are awarded then the company should be demonstrably on the road to profitability. Board members should expect a high level of scrutiny if they award themselves huge awards based on short term gains and not long term sustainability. It's not all about profitabality though - it's process improvement to save money, re-negotiation of contracts, sale of assets etc that can improve a balance sheet without having profitability at it's centre. And no, I haven't seen Pretty Woman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 24 September, 2019 Share Posted 24 September, 2019 Probably more of a pain for those losing their jobs and pensions to be fair. I see the other airlines are cashing in, pushing up seats by 500% in some cases. How can they justify that? A lot of it is done by algorithms rather than them cashing in, I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 24 September, 2019 Share Posted 24 September, 2019 Probably more of a pain for those losing their jobs and pensions to be fair. I see the other airlines are cashing in, pushing up seats by 500% in some cases. How can they justify that? Yep, I've heard too many people whinge about having to change holiday plans as if it's the end of the world. Very selfish attitude imo. The sad reality is that thousands of people will lose their jobs which is a wee bit more of an issue than people having to re book flights and hotels. Re the price increases, its unfortunate opportunism but that's supply and demand for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 24 September, 2019 Share Posted 24 September, 2019 It's not all about profitabality though - it's process improvement to save money, re-negotiation of contracts, sale of assets etc that can improve a balance sheet without having profitability at it's centre. And no, I haven't seen Pretty Woman. Do you think that if Thomas Cook had been still under family ownership they would have rewarded themselves with millions of pounds worth of bonuses? I don't think they would have done and that is why I think that it is another example of the unacceptable face of capitalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 24 September, 2019 Share Posted 24 September, 2019 Do you think that if Thomas Cook had been still under family ownership they would have rewarded themselves with millions of pounds worth of bonuses? I don't think they would have done and that is why I think that it is another example of the unacceptable face of capitalism. I'm not, and have never said, that they should have got bonuses at Thomas Cook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint in Paradise Posted 27 September, 2019 Share Posted 27 September, 2019 I was told on the 26th that some bas*ards are already trying to steal money by phoning people up and claiming to be sorting out refunds from TC. All you have to do is give them your full CC or other Bank details. I hope no-one gets caught but I rather suspect some will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the saint in winchester Posted 27 September, 2019 Share Posted 27 September, 2019 I was told on the 26th that some bas*ards are already trying to steal money by phoning people up and claiming to be sorting out refunds from TC. All you have to do is give them your full CC or other Bank details. I hope no-one gets caught but I rather suspect some will. Yes, that has been reported today here too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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