The Starmer Years - Can The New Broom Sweep Clean?

[whelk]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

How would you rate Labour's economic performance so far? 

So so. I think all western economies are fundamentally fucked due to inability to get taxes off so many digital/offshore companies, ageing population and bloated welfare, as well as immigration putting so much pressure on our infrastructure. So no easy fixes and Labour seem to just be tinkering and getting nowhere 

[Farmer Saint]

Good interview here with every lefties favourite Eastender...

 

 

[whelk]

I listened to both podcasts the other day. He is an interesting guy although bit odd

[Farmer Saint]

9 minutes ago, whelk said:

I listened to both podcasts the other day. He is an interesting guy although bit odd

Agreed.

[Sir Ralph]

On 06/08/2025 at 20:47, tdmickey3 said:

Better than the Tories but not perfect

I’d say Saints season last year was a better performance than Labours economic performance so far. 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

2 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

I’d say Saints season last year was a better performance than Labours economic performance so far. 

Saints certainly managed to cut my rate of interest last season. 🙂

[Sir Ralph]

5 minutes ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

Saints certainly managed to cut my rate of interest last season. 🙂

Was a lot less taxing than watching the shambles of the next budget. Reeves and Starmer must have been watching Russell Martin last season with all the backwards moves they are making. 

[AlexLaw76]

 

[Gloucester Saint]

9 hours ago, Sir Ralph said:

I’d say Saints season last year was a better performance than Labours economic performance so far. 

Never heard of Liz Truss then? Or slept heavily between 2019-20 when Johnson and Frost wiped 6% off our economy with a needless and brainless hard Brexit.

Not a fan of Reeves at all btw as a Lib Dem voter but whatever she does, she won’t have wiped anywhere close, not even remotely, to what those two Conservative clowns did above. And then there’s Truss.

And that’s still minute compared with the IFS’s withering assessment of anything economic Reform has put forward, which has had hundreds of billions of uncosted elements.

Ours came out the best but not without issues, but then we won’t be winning an overall majority in a Brexit nation. Pity as I think we’d make the country a lot better and happier.

Edited Friday at 07:38 by Gloucester Saint

[tdmickey3]

6 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Never heard of Liz Truss then? Or slept heavily between 2019-20 when Johnson and Frost wiped 6% off our economy with a needless and brainless hard Brexit.

Not a fan of Reeves at all btw as a Lib Dem voter but whatever she does, she won’t have wiped anywhere close, not even remotely, to what those two Conservative clowns did above. And then there’s Truss.

And that’s still minute compared with the IFS’s withering assessment of anything economic Reform has put forward, which has had hundreds of billions of uncosted elements.

Ours came out the best but not without issues, but then we won’t be winning an overall majority in a Brexit nation. Pity as I think we’d make the country a lot better and happier.

I think he`s been on Tiktok too much lately

[Sir Ralph]

1 hour ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Never heard of Liz Truss then? Or slept heavily between 2019-20 when Johnson and Frost wiped 6% off our economy with a needless and brainless hard Brexit.

Not a fan of Reeves at all btw as a Lib Dem voter but whatever she does, she won’t have wiped anywhere close, not even remotely, to what those two Conservative clowns did above. And then there’s Truss.

And that’s still minute compared with the IFS’s withering assessment of anything economic Reform has put forward, which has had hundreds of billions of uncosted elements.

Ours came out the best but not without issues, but then we won’t be winning an overall majority in a Brexit nation. Pity as I think we’d make the country a lot better and happier.

Always someone else’s fault that is the Labour motto. Most of my clients have moved to Dubai or others. Wealth creators, capital and those creating jobs have left and that has destroyed business networks. Never happened under the previous government. I agree they underperformed but nothing like the long term damage that Labour have created. If you think these lot have done anything but a terrible job I would question your judgement or understanding of capitalist markets. They have managed to do this all in one year. The thing with Labour is that they are socialist so they don’t understand or want to understand it

Edited Friday at 09:36 by Sir Ralph

[Sir Ralph]

2 hours ago, tdmickey3 said:

I think he`s been on Tiktok too much lately

That’s right buddy i get most of my knowledge from Tik tok. Thats the left wing way - disparage and partonise those who disagree. Thing that I’ve found is when challenged most left wingers views have no foundation whatsoever as they don’t understand the real world of business and have never put their neck on the line run their own business or invested. What makes you superior in your understanding of government and economics? 

Edited Friday at 09:49 by Sir Ralph

[Gloucester Saint]

37 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

Always someone else’s fault that is the Labour motto. Most of my clients have moved to Dubai or others. Wealth creators, capital and those creating jobs have left and that has destroyed business networks. Never happened under the previous government. I agree they underperformed but nothing like the long term damage that Labour have created. If you think these lot have done anything but a terrible job I would question your judgement or understanding of capitalist markets. They have managed to do this all in one year. The thing with Labour is that they are socialist so they don’t understand or want to understand it

Nah, nowhere has Reeves or Starmer said ‘fuck business’ like Boris did during Brexit. And as for calling them socialist…we’re widely regarded as to left of Labour these days let alone the Greens. You’re sounding like nutcase Nic or drunken John Guided Missile tbh.

Had my own business so don’t need lectures on capitalism thanks. And I look forward to hearing about how they somehow to have managed to wipe more off the economy than a hard Brexit did. 6% of GDP. Own it.

Edited Friday at 10:04 by Gloucester Saint

[Gloucester Saint]

33 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

That’s right buddy i get most of my knowledge from Tik tok. Thats the left wing way - disparage and partonise those who disagree. Thing that I’ve found is when challenged most left wingers views have no foundation whatsoever as they don’t understand the real world of business and have never put their neck on the line run their own business or invested. What makes you superior in your understanding of government and economics? 

Hmmm, does anyone recognise this post that sounds rather like what Nic posted a few weeks ago?

See, if Mickey wanted to make an example of people on the populist right being poorly read and uniformed, he wouldn’t have look far https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cdd32lnq445o

Edited Friday at 10:02 by Gloucester Saint

[AlexLaw76]

Chancellor won't be raising taxes on 'working people', as the 'promised' to not do that.

Given their tax rises have more than doubled the financial black hole (see they have stopped mentioning it) in just 12 months, their solution will be to raise more taxes it seems

Going well then.

Edited Friday at 09:59 by AlexLaw76

[badgerx16]

It's almost as if managing a national economy in a global environment means you don't have complete control of the tools available. Whichever party is in power, external influences and vested interests limit your ability to manouver.

[Gloucester Saint]

10 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

It's almost as if managing a national economy in a global environment means you don't have complete control of the tools available. Whichever party is in power, external influences and vested interests limit your ability to manouver.

IFS hammered the conspiracy of silence at the last GE from Tories, Labour and Reform about taxes almost certainly needing to rise to cover Covid borrowings, type of Brexit and that was before Trump was re-elected with the impact of tariffs. 

[whelk]

1 hour ago, Sir Ralph said:

Most of my clients have moved to Dubai or others. Wealth creators, capital and those creating jobs have left and that has destroyed business networks.

lol. Bs 

[Sir Ralph]

36 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Hmmm, does anyone recognise this post that sounds rather like what Nic posted a few weeks ago?

See, if Mickey wanted to make an example of people on the populist right being poorly read and uniformed, he wouldn’t have look far https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cdd32lnq445o

That’s right anyone with a view right of centre is a nutter. Again you’re a patronising left winger - you have no idea about my background and I haven’t ranted at all. TD Mickey doesn’t answer my queries. It’s all the same with left wingers all talk no substance. Stop harping back to the tories I haven’t mentioned them once. Imagine Juric continuing to say “but Russell Martin didn’t do a very good job”. Enjoy the next few years because that will be the end of the left for the foreseeable future in this country. Like much of Europe we are seeing the light and socialism will be dead for a good 30 years or so

[Sir Ralph]

19 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

IFS hammered the conspiracy of silence at the last GE from Tories, Labour and Reform about taxes almost certainly needing to rise to cover Covid borrowings, type of Brexit and that was before Trump was re-elected with the impact of tariffs. 

Thats right Labour haven’t had a detrimental impact on business at all. The £20 billion alleged black hole (which I thought had been filled) is now £50 million due to public spending and being unable to control back benchers over welfare reform. Thats Boris Johnson’s fault too I assume or maybe Margaret thatcher instead?

[Sir Ralph]

5 minutes ago, whelk said:

lol. Bs 

Great response buddy. I suspect you have no idea about this. If your a net taker you wouldn’t leave the country as it’s an easy life

[Sheaf Saint]

1 hour ago, Sir Ralph said:

Always someone else’s fault that is the Labour motto. Most of my clients have moved to Dubai or others. Wealth creators, capital and those creating jobs have left and that has destroyed business networks. Never happened under the previous government. I agree they underperformed but nothing like the long term damage that Labour have created. If you think these lot have done anything but a terrible job I would question your judgement or understanding of capitalist markets. They have managed to do this all in one year. The thing with Labour is that they are socialist so they don’t understand or want to understand it

Under Corbyn, yes. But Kier Starmer is not, and never has been a socialist, and nothing this government had done over the last 12 months fits squarely in the pigeonhole of socialism. In many aspects, quite the opposite in fact.

So it would appear that your beef with them is based on assumptions about what the Labour party used to be, rather than what they actually are now. Which suggests you're not really in a strong position to be belittling other people's understanding of government and economics.

[Gloucester Saint]

It’s alright everyone, Reform will fix it 😂 (credit Private Eye)

 

[Sir Ralph]

35 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

It's almost as if managing a national economy in a global environment means you don't have complete control of the tools available. Whichever party is in power, external influences and vested interests limit your ability to manouver.

I agree but the thing you don’t do when things are bad is shot yourself in the foot multiple times 

[tdmickey3]

43 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Chancellor won't be raising taxes on 'working people', as the 'promised' to not do that.

Given their tax rises have more than doubled the financial black hole (see they have stopped mentioning it) in just 12 months, their solution will be to raise more taxes it seems

Going well then.

Get Truss in FFS

[Sir Ralph]

Just now, Sheaf Saint said:

Under Corbyn, yes. But Kier Starmer is not, and never has been a socialist, and nothing this government had done over the last 12 months fits squarely in the pigeonhole of socialism. In many aspects, quite the opposite in fact.

So it would appear that your beef with them is based on assumptions about what the Labour party used to be, rather than what they actually are now. Which suggests you're not really in a strong position to be belittling other people's understanding of government and economics.

I fully understand the Labour Party and politics at a local and national level. I deal with politic consultants on a daily basis.  The understanding was that the party was moderate left but it’s transpiring it’s more to the left than it let on. Put it this way I actually thought about voting for them in this election (which probably shows I’m more considered than some others on here - political party colour doesn’t matter contents does)

[Gloucester Saint]

3 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

Thats right Labour haven’t had a detrimental impact on business at all. The £20 billion alleged black hole (which I thought had been filled) is now £50 million due to public spending and being unable to control back benchers over welfare reform. Thats Boris Johnson’s fault too I assume or maybe Margaret thatcher instead?

Again, more attributing of things that the likes of me, Egg and Sheaf haven’t said. Me and Egg have been pretty consistent on here about the NI being misdirected and very harmful to SMEs under 10 staff, charities and universities etc.

The country’s infrastructure is severely under-invested - businesses use that as much as anyone else. The Trump environment and tariffs don’t help anyone. And I’ve been very vocal about the Labour weak approach to rebuilding our relationship with the EU and getting back towards the Single Market. That would be more transformative to businesses than anything else. Exporting without the insane increase in paperwork we have to put up with now.

[Sir Ralph]

3 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

Get Truss in FFS

Again revert to someone else that made mistakes. I never mentioned the tories - we are talking about labours performance. If you revert to the lowest common denominator each time you answer the question as to how bad Labour haven’t been

[whelk]

4 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

Great response buddy. I suspect you have no idea about this. If your a net taker you wouldn’t leave the country as it’s an easy life

I might be more willing to believe you if you expand more. Lazy right wing propaganda that Batman and Hypo post to scare everyone - the mill owners are leaving!

[Sir Ralph]

Just now, Gloucester Saint said:

Again, more attributing of things that the likes of me, Egg and Sheaf haven’t said. Me and Egg have been pretty consistent on here about the NI being misdirected and very harmful to SMEs under 10 staff, charities and universities etc.

The country’s infrastructure is severely under-invested - businesses use that as much as anyone else. The Trump environment and tariffs don’t help anyone. And I’ve been very vocal about the Labour weak approach to rebuilding our relationship with the EU and getting back towards the Single Market. That would be more transformative to businesses than anything else. Exporting without the insane increase in paperwork we have to put up with now.

That’s a fair response. There are other issues afoot but I think Labour haven’t made a real hash and made it so much worse for business than it needs to be

[Sir Ralph]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

I might be more willing to believe you if you expand more. Lazy right wing propaganda that Batman and Hypo post to scare everyone - the mill owners are leaving!

Ok we have a consortium of where most have left - one stayed in the uk. I have three friends who live in our town who have left with their families. One of my mates friends in his 20s and started a successful business and is selling to leave directly cause of labours policies and future anticipated policies. I have a friend who is also moving his family to France. This is really happening. I am experiencing it first hand. This isn’t right wing propaganda. These people are educated here have created business and are leaving. It destroys business networks and is a brain drain. Very difficult to repair

Edited Friday at 12:15 by Sir Ralph

[Whitey Grandad]

4 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

Ok we have a consortium of 7 client - 6 of them have left to go to Dubai - one stayed in the uk. I have three friends who live in our town who have left with their families. One of my mates friends in his 20s and started a successful business and is selling to leave directly cause of labours policies and future anticipated policies. I have a friend who is also moving his family to Monaco. This is really happening. I am experiencing it first hand. This isn’t right wing propaganda. These people are educated here have created business and are leaving. It destroys business networks and is a brain drain. Very difficult to repair

Trust and confidence take years to build up yet can be destroyed in seconds. 

[Sir Ralph]

5 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Trust and confidence take years to build up yet can be destroyed in seconds. 

Exactly - and it won’t come back for years even after the current Government get voted out. 

[Sheaf Saint]

22 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

I fully understand the Labour Party and politics at a local and national level. I deal with politic consultants on a daily basis.  The understanding was that the party was moderate left but it’s transpiring it’s more to the left than it let on. Put it this way I actually thought about voting for them in this election (which probably shows I’m more considered than some others on here - political party colour doesn’t matter contents does)

Appreciate your considered response. It's interesting how different people perceive things differently though, because from my perspective the opposite is true and they've actually shown themselves to be further to the right than their election campaign / manifesto suggested. 

I acknowledge that financial markets etc... are not my area of expertise. But I work for an arms length government body and there's not a single change that I've seen since last year's GE that suggests the current government are any more left wing than the previous one. If anything they've gone the other way in my sector and are pandering even more to corporate lobbyists in their insatiable drive for growth, much to the dismay and disappointment of many of my colleagues.

[Sir Ralph]

3 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Appreciate your considered response. It's interesting how different people perceive things differently though, because from my perspective the opposite is true and they've actually shown themselves to be further to the right than their election campaign / manifesto suggested. 

I acknowledge that financial markets etc... are not my area of expertise. But I work for an arms length government body and there's not a single change that I've seen since last year's GE that suggests the current government are any more left wing than the previous one. If anything they've gone the other way in my sector and are pandering even more to corporate lobbyists in their insatiable drive for growth, much to the dismay and disappointment of many of my colleagues.

Interesting that your experience is different probably because of the sector you are in and that I am in. Appreciate the response rather than throwing spurious allegations - there is probably more common ground between people than we realise but social media and three word responses often mean that people aren’t willing to listen to each other which is a sad reflection of society

[Sir Ralph]

.

Edited Friday at 11:34 by Sir Ralph

[Sir Ralph]

50 minutes ago, whelk said:

I might be more willing to believe you if you expand more. Lazy right wing propaganda that Batman and Hypo post to scare everyone - the mill owners are leaving!

So are you willing to accept that this isn’t just scaremongering?

Edited Friday at 11:35 by Sir Ralph

[Farmer Saint]

49 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

Ok we have a consortium of 7 client - 6 of them have left to go to Dubai - one stayed in the uk. I have three friends who live in our town who have left with their families. One of my mates friends in his 20s and started a successful business and is selling to leave directly cause of labours policies and future anticipated policies. I have a friend who is also moving his family to Monaco. This is really happening. I am experiencing it first hand. This isn’t right wing propaganda. These people are educated here have created business and are leaving. It destroys business networks and is a brain drain. Very difficult to repair

What a shame they are such selfish cunts then. They'll suit Dubai right down to the fucking ground.

[Sir Ralph]

7 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

What a shame they are such selfish cunts then. They'll suit Dubai right down to the fucking ground.

Haha always the same. Proven right so the dial changes. Left wingers are hilarious. Why are they selfish - answer that? If they pay millions of pounds in tax already and cover their tax burden and the tax burden of many others why are they selfish? They will have contributed to the economy and the public purse multiple times over than 99.99% of the population and yet they are selfish

Edited Friday at 11:48 by Sir Ralph

[Farmer Saint]

6 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

Haha always the same. Proven right so the dial changes. Left wingers are hilarious. Why are they selfish - answer that? If they pay millions of pounds in tax already and cover their tax burden and the tax burden of many others why are they selfish?

Because they are choosing to go to a tax haven where they will pay zero tax rather than potentially pay a little bit more for the good of the country. The country is in a mess, Brexit has reduced our income and competitiveness, so we need to raise more money. This should fall on those with the broadest shoulders.

Let me ask you this - for what reason have they said they're leaving? I'm not really comfortable with revealing this, but I am sure I am in a pretty similar financial position to slot of them so I'm very interested as to what they have been advised is happening, versus what I have been advised. I also work as a Non-Exec Director on a few boards, with many other wealthy people, and they don't seem to be leaving.

I'm putting this out there, and don't take this the wrong way, but I don't think you're telling the truth. Sorry.

Edited Friday at 11:51 by Farmer Saint

[Sir Ralph]

9 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

What a shame they are such selfish cunts then. They'll suit Dubai right down to the fucking ground.

You’re also missing the bigger point - whilst you may think they are selfish for leaving who will cover their tax burden because of crap economic policies - will you? 

[Farmer Saint]

Just now, Sir Ralph said:

You’re also missing the bigger point - whilst you may think they are selfish for leaving who will cover their tax burden because of crap economic policies - will you? 

Probably, yes.

But let me ask you, these "millionaire's" that are leaving, why are they leaving?

[Sir Ralph]

Just now, Farmer Saint said:

Probably, yes.

But let me ask you, these "millionaire's" that are leaving, why are they leaving?

Well you will have to accept I’m telling the truth. I don’t lie it’s bad form and certainly not to make a point on a forum. I could say the same about you saying you are a non exec director on boards. I believe you cause I think it would be sad to BS.
 

it’s well publicised that the increase in capital gains and change in non dom status are meaning people are leaving. They are also anticipating future tax changes which will be coming over the next few years. Compare this to no income tax, paid schools and houses by companies if you move to other places why wouldn’t you. If I didn’t have family ties I would leave too. These people contribute significant amounts of tax but keep pushing and the connectivity of the world now means it’s easy to leave. Most of these people used to be positive about their own country but they don’t recognise it as much now

[aintforever]

13 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

Haha always the same. Proven right so the dial changes. Left wingers are hilarious. Why are they selfish - answer that? If they pay millions of pounds in tax already and cover their tax burden and the tax burden of many others why are they selfish? They will have contributed to the economy and the public purse multiple times over than 99.99% of the population and yet they are selfish

Of course it is selfish, it's literally the dictionary definition - lacking consideration for other people; concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure.

How is that not what they are doing?

[Sir Ralph]

2 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Of course it is selfish, it's literally the dictionary definition - lacking consideration for other people; concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure.

How is that not what they are doing?

So if you have £100 and I ask for £60 of it and you won’t give it me then you are selfish?

 

if I deserve a pay rise but won’t give it up to allow a lazy colleague to have a pay rise then I’m selfish.

 

seriously?!!!! That’s one of the worst arguments I’ve ever heard

Edited Friday at 12:02 by Sir Ralph

[aintforever]

8 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

So if you have £100 and I ask for £60 of it and you won’t give it me then you are selfish?

 

if I deserve a pay rise but won’t give it up to allow a lazy colleague to have a pay rise then I’m selfish.

 

seriously?!!!! That’s one of the worst arguments I’ve ever heard

I'm not saying what they are doing is right or wrong, just that you cannot deny that it is for selfish reasons. 

 

Edited Friday at 12:09 by aintforever

[Farmer Saint]

Just now, Sir Ralph said:

Well you will have to accept I’m telling the truth. I don’t lie it’s bad form and certainly not to make a point on a forum. I could say the same about you saying you are a non exec director on boards. I believe you cause I think it would be sad to BS.
 

it’s well publicised that the increase in capital gains and change in non dom status are meaning people are leaving. They are also anticipating future tax changes which will be coming over the next few years. Compare this to no income tax, paid schools and houses by companies if you move to other places why wouldn’t you. If I didn’t have family ties I would leave too. These people contribute significant amounts of tax but keep pushing and the connectivity of the world now means it’s easy to leave. Most of these people used to be positive about their own country but they don’t recognise it as much now

I'm not asking about what has been publicised - I'm asking about why these people have left.

So what have these people done - have they sold all their assets? Have they moved there temporarily? Have they sold their investments, cashed in shares, moved their businesses? The problem is everyone's personal situation is different, and incredibly complex. Millionaire's do not just up and leave.

Perhaps you can outline the profiles of these people first, because just saying rich people doesn't really mean much - you can be a millionaire earning £250k pa so is it these people you are talking about? Or is it business owners etc?

[Farmer Saint]

6 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

So if you have £100 and I ask for £60 of it and you won’t give it me then you are selfish?

 

if I deserve a pay rise but won’t give it up to allow a lazy colleague to have a pay rise then I’m selfish.

 

seriously?!!!! That’s one of the worst arguments I’ve ever heard

What do you do Sir Ralph?

[Farmer Saint]

9 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

So if you have £100 and I ask for £60 of it and you won’t give it me then you are selfish?

 

if I deserve a pay rise but won’t give it up to allow a lazy colleague to have a pay rise then I’m selfish.

 

seriously?!!!! That’s one of the worst arguments I’ve ever heard

If you have £100, and you currently give me £60 of it, and instead I ask you £61 of it to improve the country for everyone, I would give that extra pound.

[Sir Ralph]

2 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

I'm not asking about what has been publicised - I'm asking about why these people have left.

So what have these people done - have they sold all their assets? Have they moved there temporarily? Have they sold their investments, cashed in shares, moved their businesses? The problem is everyone's personal situation is different, and incredibly complex. Millionaire's do not just up and leave.

Perhaps you can outline the profiles of these people first, because just saying rich people doesn't really mean much - you can be a millionaire earning £250k pa so is it these people you are talking about? Or is it business owners etc?

Most of them have retained property and assets (beyond their personal) homes but have stopped or limited investment in the uk.

Other than 2 mentioned the rest are significantly beyond the bracket you mentioned. They own significant stakes in companies or signicant assets in the uk.