The Starmer Years - Can The New Broom Sweep Clean?

[JohnnyShearer2.0]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Yeah good news, yields on 10-year gilts are back down to  Liz Truss levels…

Yes mate, I know.

Did she herself not accelerate the growth? So maybe Labour took a bit of short term pain to start recalibrating down?

[hypochondriac]

5 hours ago, tdmickey3 said:

Lol, the vote would happen every week because there is always someone who is unhappy about something

You'd allow for that by making the threshold high enough that you wouldn't have it happening all the time and you'd have a period where it wouldn't be allowed once you'd called one and it was unsuccessful. If strength of feeling was high enough and your failure big enough then it would be easier to remove you.

[egg]

5 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

I'd make it so that constituents can initiate a recall petition with a certain number of signatures. Once a threshold is met you're out.

So a witch hunt policy? 

[hypochondriac]

4 minutes ago, egg said:

So a witch hunt policy? 

Not if the threshold is high enough. It's not acceptable that politicians can blatantly lie to get elected, renege on most of their promises and then roll out a load of society changing stuff that no one voted for with no means of getting rid before the next election.

We already have recall petitions under certain circumstances. Changing those circumstances can make politicians more accountable to their constituents.

Edited Thursday at 14:57 by hypochondriac

[egg]

3 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Not if the threshold is high enough. It's not acceptable that politicians can blatantly lie to get elected, renege on most of their promises and then roll out a load of society changing stuff that no one voted for with no means of getting rid before the next election.

We already have recall petitions under certain circumstances. Changing those circumstances can make politicians more accountable to their constituents.

Individual politicians don't generally renege on their promises - they don't set policy. You seem to be asking for a recall petition to be used to boot out MP's because of government policy decisions. That's never going to happen. 

If (as you initially suggested) there's a more accessible recall petition for MP's because they're falling short, then that's so open to abuse, and it absolutely could be used in witch hunt exercises. 

[Gloucester Saint]

1 hour ago, egg said:

If (as you initially suggested) there's a more accessible recall petition for MP's because they're falling short, then that's so open to abuse, and it absolutely could be used in witch hunt exercises. 

Corbyn and Johnson would certainly have abused it.

[east-stand-nic]

22 hours ago, tdmickey3 said:

 

 

Oh dear niccy, used up the 3 posts limit and made to look utterly stupid again... 🤣

Nothing changes does it 🤡

Sadly for you, it is your bosom buddy who has been caught out, yet again with his Marxist Fascist ways. Being that you support him at every post, one can only assume you agree with his Marxist Fascist ways. 

[egg]

50 minutes ago, east-stand-nic said:

Sadly for you, it is your bosom buddy who has been caught out, yet again with his Marxist Fascist ways. Being that you support him at every post, one can only assume you agree with his Marxist Fascist ways. 

Great use of one of your 3 nic. Well done. 

I won't engage with you on a serious level because you don't post seriously. You conflate issues, assume your position as fact, and moreover, are rude and personal at every turn. 

[tdmickey3]

1 hour ago, east-stand-nic said:

Sadly for you, it is your bosom buddy who has been caught out, yet again with his Marxist Fascist ways. Being that you support him at every post, one can only assume you agree with his Marxist Fascist ways. 

The only agreement we have on here is that you are an absolutely monumental prick...

We will look out for more outstanding stupidity tomorrow when you can post again

[east-stand-nic]

46 minutes ago, egg said:

Great use of one of your 3 nic. Well done. 

I won't engage with you on a serious level because you don't post seriously. You conflate issues, assume your position as fact, and moreover, are rude and personal at every turn. 

You will not engage as you cannot. I am correct. If I was wrong you would prove it. 

6 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

The only agreement we have on here is that you are an absolutely monumental prick...

We will look out for more outstanding stupidity tomorrow when you can post again

Oh dear, read above from Egg about being rude. No doubt he will accept it when you and the other fascists are rude, but not when I do it. Same old double standards lefty loons.

[tdmickey3]

Just now, east-stand-nic said:

You will not engage as you cannot. I am correct. If I was wrong you would prove it. 

Oh dear, read above from Egg about being rude. No doubt he will accept it when you and the other fascists are rude, but not when I do it. Same old double standards lefty loons.

Oooooh its still here... but still an hilarious fool 

[badgerx16]

Could somebody please explain what exactly a "Marxist Fascist" is. Is it the extremist wing of the "Tribune Group ERG" ?

 

Edited Friday at 13:08 by badgerx16

[AlexLaw76]

[tdmickey3]

16 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Good for her

[sadoldgit]

8 hours ago, east-stand-nic said:

Sadly for you, it is your bosom buddy who has been caught out, yet again with his Marxist Fascist ways. Being that you support him at every post, one can only assume you agree with his Marxist Fascist ways. 

What on earth is a Marxist Fascist?

By the way nic, go and look up the word “hyperbole” along with “Marxist Fascist.” It might save you wasting more posts down the line when you completely misunderstand   the point of another of my posts.

[sadoldgit]

49 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

Good for her

If you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em?

[Turkish]

4 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

What on earth is a Marxist Fascist?

By the way nic, go and look up the word “hyperbole” along with “Marxist Fascist.” It might save you wasting more posts down the line when you completely misunderstand   the point of another of my posts.

At least Nic does pay anything, you pay a fiver a year for all your wasted posts.

[Farmer Saint]

After Dinner Speeches. 

I don't like listening to her talk now, God knows I wouldn't pay for it.

[sadoldgit]

To paraphrase AI - 

The term ‘Marxist Fascist’ is not a real or coherent political ideology. It combines two ideas that are fundamentally opposed. When people use it they are usually confused or misinformed.

Both words sum up the poster perfectly.

[Sir Ralph]

39 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

If you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em

Edited Friday at 15:40 by Sir Ralph

[badgerx16]

30 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

To paraphrase AI - 

The term ‘Marxist Fascist’ is not a real or coherent political ideology. It combines two ideas that are fundamentally opposed. When people use it they are usually confused or misinformed.

Both words sum up the poster perfectly.

Is that the same AI used by West Midlands Police ?

[Farmer Saint]

This is very interesting...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c150leql9pgo

 

[JohnnyShearer2.0]

The Tories and Labour are at least a decade behind in terms of how they utilise social media (my own view).

Influencers across all age groups would help but doesnt seem to be a concern for them.

[east-stand-nic]

19 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

What on earth is a Marxist Fascist?

By the way nic, go and look up the word “hyperbole” along with “Marxist Fascist.” It might save you wasting more posts down the line when you completely misunderstand   the point of another of my posts.

Must do better. Outed again. 

A "communist fascist" isn't a standard political term but describes systems or ideologies that blend elements of communism (state control, class struggle focus) with fascism (extreme nationalism, authoritarianism, hierarchy), often seen in dictatorships like Stalin's USSR or Mao's China, where totalitarian state power mimics fascist control despite communist aims, or used pejoratively to link far-left authoritarianism to far-right fascist methods, as seen in the historical concept of "social fascism" used by communists against social democrats. 

[badgerx16]

19 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

To paraphrase AI - 

The term ‘Marxist Fascist’ is not a real or coherent political ideology. It combines two ideas that are fundamentally opposed. When people use it they are usually confused or misinformed.

Both words sum up the poster perfectly.

 

8 minutes ago, east-stand-nic said:

Must do better. Outed again. 

A "communist fascist" isn't a standard political term but describes systems or ideologies that blend elements of communism (state control, class struggle focus) with fascism (extreme nationalism, authoritarianism, hierarchy), often seen in dictatorships like Stalin's USSR or Mao's China, where totalitarian state power mimics fascist control despite communist aims, or used pejoratively to link far-left authoritarianism to far-right fascist methods, as seen in the historical concept of "social fascism" used by communists against social democrats. 

A classic example of AI contradicting itself.

Edited yesterday at 11:02 by badgerx16

[The Kraken]

13 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

 

A classic example of AI contradicting itself.

Todays google answer to “what is a Marxist fascist.”

A "Marxist fascist" is a contradiction in terms, as Marxism and Fascism are fundamentally opposing ideologies: 

Marxism aims for classless, international worker solidarity against capitalism, while Fascism, from a Marxist perspective, is a brutal dictatorship of finance capital designed to crush socialist movements and preserve capitalist power through extreme nationalism, militarism, and suppression of class struggle, often mobilizing the desperate middle class against workers. While some regimes called themselves "Marxist" (like Stalinist Russia) and were accused of fascism (or vice versa) by opponents, classic Marxist theory sees fascism as capitalism's violent tool against the working class, not a form of socialism

[sadoldgit]

58 minutes ago, east-stand-nic said:

Must do better. Outed again. 

A "communist fascist" isn't a standard political term but describes systems or ideologies that blend elements of communism (state control, class struggle focus) with fascism (extreme nationalism, authoritarianism, hierarchy), often seen in dictatorships like Stalin's USSR or Mao's China, where totalitarian state power mimics fascist control despite communist aims, or used pejoratively to link far-left authoritarianism to far-right fascist methods, as seen in the historical concept of "social fascism" used by communists against social democrats. 

You originally said Marxist Fascist not Communist Fascist.

Outed again.

Must do better!

[east-stand-nic]

23 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

You originally said Marxist Fascist not Communist Fascist.

Outed again.

Must do better!

Oh dear. I will try one last time. Were Lenin and Stalin both Marxist? Yes.

Were Lenin and Stalin both Fascist dictators? Yes.

So you see, with a little bit of outside the MSM box thinking you can quickly deduce that there is such a thing as a Marxist who can also have Fascist style rule.

Come back with whatever BS you want, the fact is, that in History we have had Fascist rules who have adopted Marxism as their way. So, ergo, they are both.  

Would you like your hat? 

[sadoldgit]

22 minutes ago, east-stand-nic said:

Oh dear. I will try one last time. Were Lenin and Stalin both Marxist? Yes.

Were Lenin and Stalin both Fascist dictators? Yes.

So you see, with a little bit of outside the MSM box thinking you can quickly deduce that there is such a thing as a Marxist who can also have Fascist style rule.

Come back with whatever BS you want, the fact is, that in History we have had Fascist rules who have adopted Marxism as their way. So, ergo, they are both.  

Would you like your hat? 

Oh dear, I shall try one last time. Were Lenin and Stain both Marxist? Yes, no one is disputing that, but they interpreted Marxism differently.

Were Lenin and Stalin fascist dictators? No. You seem to be getting their ideology confused with Hitler and Mussolini, but no surprise there as you seem to have a blind spot when it comes to far right ideologies.

A dictator is a dictator. You are so desperate to label despots products of the “looney left” that you give real Fascists any easy pass. I don’t think I have seen one post from you where you call out extreme right actions. You currently spend your three posts a day trying to deflect the actions of the likes of Trump and Farage and now you do that by bringing up the names of long dead Russians who political ideologies were nothing like the political ideologies  of two long dead people, one German, one Italian.

You are not thing outside of the box. You are not thinking. Fascism is Fascism. Marxism is Marxism. Communism is Communsim. They all have different names because they all describe different things.

Just because the leaders of various regimes use similar strong arm methods to implement and maintain their regimes, it does not mean that they share the same beliefs (unless you believe in some of the weird conspiracy theories that gullible people like you do).

Once more, we use different words to differentiate different things. We say Marxism because it means one thing. We say Fascism because it means something different. We say dictator because it describes a style of governance. Ergo we say Marxist Dictator, Communist dictator, Fascist Dictator etc. (well, normal people do anyway). If you “think outside the box” and add Fascist to either a Marxist or Communist dictatorship, all you are doing is confusing two very different ideologies as has been pointed out to you before.

Would you like to remove your head from your arse?

I have another question for you. Why do you get so upset about my feelings towards the mortality of a despot currently ruling the US, yet apparently have no concerns that an innocent American woman was shot three times at close range and killed by an armed agent of the state whilst peacefully carrying out her rights under the second amendment of the US constitution? Then again, you post laughing emojis on posts about dead innocent Palestinians killed by another nationalistic despot, so no surprises there.

So what is Trump becoming in your out of box thinking style? 
A Marxist Communist Fascist Narcissist Mentalist Dictator?

[sadoldgit]

Here you go nic. Learn something.

You can think of Lenin & Stalin on one side and Hitler & Mussolini on the other as representing two different totalitarian traditions: communist and fascist. They shared some methods of rule, but their ideologies, goals, and social bases were very different.

 

 

 

 

1. Core ideology

 

 

 

Lenin & Stalin (Communism / Marxism–Leninism)

 

 

• Based on Marxism: class struggle, socialism → communism
• Goal (in theory): a classless society
• Emphasized economic equality
• Initially internationalist (world revolution), later more state-centered under Stalin

 

 

 

Hitler & Mussolini (Fascism / Nazism)

 

 

• Based on ultranationalism
• Rejected Marxism and liberal democracy
• Accepted social hierarchy as natural
• Defined the nation by race (Hitler) or state loyalty (Mussolini)

 

 

Key difference:

Communists focused on class, fascists focused on nation and identity

 

 

 

 

2. Economic system

 

 

 

Lenin & Stalin

 

 

• Abolished private ownership of major industry
• Central planning
• Collectivized agriculture (especially under Stalin)
• No independent capitalist class

 

 

 

Hitler & Mussolini

 

 

• Private property remained
• State tightly controlled and coordinated industry
• Worked with industrialists and elites
• Economy geared toward militarization

 

 

Key difference:

Communism eliminated capitalism; fascism used capitalism under state direction

 

 

 

 

3. Political power & the state

 

 

 

Lenin & Stalin

 

 

• One-party communist state
• Claimed legitimacy from representing the working class
• Repression justified as necessary for revolution
• Stalin built a highly centralized personal dictatorship

 

 

 

Hitler & Mussolini

 

 

• One-party fascist state
• Power centered on the leader (Führer / Duce)
• Mass mobilization through nationalist spectacle
• Open glorification of violence and war

 

 

Similarity:

All four ruled as dictators with no real political opposition.

 

 

 

 

4. Use of terror and repression

 

 

 

Lenin & Stalin

 

 

• Secret police (Cheka, NKVD)
• Political purges, labor camps (Gulag)
• Terror framed as class warfare
• Stalin’s terror was far broader and more lethal

 

 

 

Hitler & Mussolini

 

 

• Secret police (Gestapo, OVRA)
• Concentration camps
• Terror aimed at racial, political, and social enemies
• Nazi terror became genocidal

 

 

Key difference:

Communist terror targeted class enemies; Nazi terror targeted racial enemies

 

 

 

 

5. Nationalism and racism

 

 

 

Lenin

 

 

• Opposed nationalism in theory
• Supported national self-determination (selectively)

 

 

 

Stalin

 

 

• Mixed Marxism with Russian-centered nationalism
• Still did not base rule on race

 

 

 

Hitler

 

 

• Centrality of race
• Antisemitism and Aryan supremacy
• Genocide as a core goal

 

 

 

Mussolini

 

 

• Nationalist, but initially not racially obsessed
• Adopted racial laws later under Nazi influence

 

 

Key difference:

Only Hitler’s regime made race and genocide central to its ideology.

 

 

 

 

6. Foreign policy goals

 

 

 

Lenin & Stalin

 

 

• Lenin: world revolution (Comintern)
• Stalin: security and expansion of socialism
• Ideology-driven but often pragmatic

 

 

 

Hitler & Mussolini

 

 

• Expansionist imperialism
• Hitler sought Lebensraum and racial conquest
• Mussolini aimed to rebuild a Roman Empire

 

 

 

 

 

7. Personal rule differences

 

 

• Lenin: Ideologue and revolutionary; ruled collectively (to a degree)
• Stalin: Bureaucratic master; paranoid, highly personal dictatorship
• Hitler: Charismatic mass leader; ideological fanatic
• Mussolini: Performer-politician; less systematic, less radical than Hitler

 

[east-stand-nic]

30 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Oh dear, I shall try one last time. Were Lenin and Stain both Marxist? Yes, no one is disputing that, but they interpreted Marxism differently.

Were Lenin and Stalin fascist dictators? No. You seem to be getting their ideology confused with Hitler and Mussolini, but no surprise there as you seem to have a blind spot when it comes to far right ideologies.

A dictator is a dictator. You are so desperate to label despots products of the “looney left” that you give real Fascists any easy pass. I don’t think I have seen one post from you where you call out extreme right actions. You currently spend your three posts a day trying to deflect the actions of the likes of Trump and Farage and now you do that by bringing up the names of long dead Russians who political ideologies were nothing like the political ideologies  of two long dead people, one German, one Italian.

You are not thing outside of the box. You are not thinking. Fascism is Fascism. Marxism is Marxism. Communism is Communsim. They all have different names because they all describe different things.

Just because the leaders of various regimes use similar strong arm methods to implement and maintain their regimes, it does not mean that they share the same beliefs (unless you believe in some of the weird conspiracy theories that gullible people like you do).

Once more, we use different words to differentiate different things. We say Marxism because it means one thing. We say Fascism because it means something different. We say dictator because it describes a style of governance. Ergo we say Marxist Dictator, Communist dictator, Fascist Dictator etc. (well, normal people do anyway). If you “think outside the box” and add Fascist to either a Marxist or Communist dictatorship, all you are doing is confusing two very different ideologies as has been pointed out to you before.

Would you like to remove your head from your arse?

I have another question for you. Why do you get so upset about my feelings towards the mortality of a despot currently ruling the US, yet apparently have no concerns that an innocent American woman was shot three times at close range and killed by an armed agent of the state whilst peacefully carrying out her rights under the second amendment of the US constitution? Then again, you post laughing emojis on posts about dead innocent Palestinians killed by another nationalistic despot, so no surprises there.

So what is Trump becoming in your out of box thinking style? 
A Marxist Communist Fascist Narcissist Mentalist Dictator?

Good god. I give up. 

[badgerx16]

Can we find a way of banning AI generated text as "proof".

First it's lazy, second it is not definitive or necessarily accurate.

Edited 2 hours ago by badgerx16

[badgerx16]

12 minutes ago, east-stand-nic said:

Good god. I give up. 

Promise ?

[tdmickey3]

19 minutes ago, east-stand-nic said:

Good god. I give up. 

Posting absolute horseshit hopefully but then you would have nothing to say, win win i reckon 

[egg]

35 minutes ago, east-stand-nic said:

Good god. I give up. 

Excellent, and in all seriousness, I'm glad you're not encouraging him. 

[egg]

26 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Can we find a way of banning AI generated text as "proof".

First it's lazy, second it is not definitive or necessarily accurate.

And thirdly, historical political figures are exactly that, and the label attached to Trump and his ideology doesn't change a single thing.

How he's dealt with internationally and domestically is what matters. 

[Weston Super Saint]

Can someone please take AI away from Soggy? I know he doesn't like to think for himself and prefers to be told what to think, but being told by a robot is taking the piss....

[Gloucester Saint]

27 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Can someone please take AI away from Soggy? I know he doesn't like to think for himself and prefers to be told what to think, but being told by a robot is taking the piss....

Him and East Stand Weirdo are doing my head in.

[hypochondriac]

35 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Can someone please take AI away from Soggy? I know he doesn't like to think for himself and prefers to be told what to think, but being told by a robot is taking the piss....

Is it any better than LBC telling him what to think?