The Starmer Years - Can The New Broom Sweep Clean?

[badgerx16]

There will always be grifters, it is the consequence of having a welfare safety net.

There will always be 'employers' looking to game the system and shirk their responsibilities to their employees. This is a standard side effect of capitalism.

Until somebody invents the perfect system, with %100 employment at rates that guarantee an acceptable minimum standard of living, these 2 statements will remain true.

[badgerx16]

Ralph, have you ever in your life experienced living on welfare ? For most people it isn't the scrounger's utopia the Mail and Express like to portray.

Edited 1 hour ago by badgerx16

[Sir Ralph]

7 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Ralph, have you ever in your life experienced living on welfare ?

I’ve never lived on welfare. I have lived below the poverty line both in this country and abroad (the equivalent of UK poverty line). In this country my dad wouldn’t take welfare as a matter of principle.

I know of people in my area who are on welfare and they are certainly not struggling. Whilst some are certainly struggling, there is too much abuse of the system in my opinion. The Labour Cabinet believe the same as they wanted welfare reform. This isn’t some mad surprise or idea

Edited 1 hour ago by Sir Ralph

[badgerx16]

4 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

I’ve never lived on welfare. I have lived below the poverty line both in this country and abroad (the equivalent of UK poverty line). In this country my dad wouldn’t take welfare as a matter of principle.

Whilst that is an admirable and principled position, it is one that others find harder to take.

[Sir Ralph]

4 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Whilst that is an admirable and principled position, it is one that others find harder to take.

I understand that and some people do need welfare. I know stories of guys working two jobs and struggling. I have the genuine utmost respect. Also for people in @sadoldgit situation.

However some need a kick up the ars and an ultimatum. I would question their tolerance threshold. That’s human nature. There is a lack of ars kicking in the current system.

Thanks for engaging in a respectful way.

Edited 1 hour ago by Sir Ralph

[Farmer Saint]

15 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

Put my view to one side. This is Tory policy to reinstate the two child cap for the reasons I said. This isn’t some outlier view. It’s the oppositions policy. 
 

I’ve lived in countries with true poverty and seen the consequence. I’ve also seen the opportunity a capitalist system can provide and encourage people out of poverty. Whilst I appreciate the respect you post with I don’t need lecturing from other rude posters about the consequences of poverty. 

The point is your opinion is that children should suffer in poverty as a result of their parents feckless attitude towards procreation. 

That's the problem here.

Lifting kids out of poverty should be the first agenda for any government, left or right. They are the economic future for countries, so you want them to be as high-achieving as possible. Starting them off in a life of poverty strangles that, and is very poor for the economy.

[sadoldgit]

8 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

I’ve never lived on welfare. I have lived below the poverty line both in this country and abroad (the equivalent of UK poverty line). In this country my dad wouldn’t take welfare as a matter of principle.

I know of people in my area who are on welfare and they are certainly not struggling. Whilst some are certainly struggling, there is too much abuse of the system in my opinion. The Labour Cabinet believe the same as they wanted welfare reform. This isn’t some mad surprise or idea

How do you know what level of abuse the system is facing? A bloke down the pub type of actually factual information?

Everybody wants welfare form. No system is perfect, but I can tell you that getting Universal Credit and PIP is no walk in the park. My wife applied a few years ago when she left her job through bullying. She had to go in for several meetings and fill in countless forms. So did I, even though I wasn’t claiming benefit. In the end we were turned down because of my pension. The fact that we were relying on my pension and her wages to make ends meet didn’t come into it. They also said it was a pity that we had a mortgage as they could have helped us if we had been paying rent! 
You need to look beyond the rhetoric of Badenoch and Reform. The idea that thousands of people are living the life of Riley on benefits is no different from the myth that all of our problems are down to migrants. 
I was out of work for a period about 20 years ago so went sling to the job centre to see what they could do for me. It was so depressing that I never went back. They will always be people who play the system. That doesn’t mean that everybody is. Do you feel the same about very rich people who employ accountants to avoid paying tax? I don’t hear people of your ideology complain about the rich playing the system to get richer.

[Sir Ralph]

1 hour ago, sadoldgit said:

How do you know what level of abuse the system is facing? A bloke down the pub type of actually factual information?

Everybody wants welfare form. No system is perfect, but I can tell you that getting Universal Credit and PIP is no walk in the park. My wife applied a few years ago when she left her job through bullying. She had to go in for several meetings and fill in countless forms. So did I, even though I wasn’t claiming benefit. In the end we were turned down because of my pension. The fact that we were relying on my pension and her wages to make ends meet didn’t come into it. They also said it was a pity that we had a mortgage as they could have helped us if we had been paying rent! 
You need to look beyond the rhetoric of Badenoch and Reform. The idea that thousands of people are living the life of Riley on benefits is no different from the myth that all of our problems are down to migrants. 
I was out of work for a period about 20 years ago so went sling to the job centre to see what they could do for me. It was so depressing that I never went back. They will always be people who play the system. That doesn’t mean that everybody is. Do you feel the same about very rich people who employ accountants to avoid paying tax? I don’t hear people of your ideology complain about the rich playing the system to get richer.

Yes if you’ve been recently employed the bizarre thing is it doesn’t help you. Long term benefit claimants are fine. I speak from experience of long term claimants I’m aware of. Says a lot about who the system helps and doesnt 

Edited 29 minutes ago by Sir Ralph

[Gloucester Saint]

53 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

There will always be grifters, it is the consequence of having a welfare safety net.

There will always be 'employers' looking to game the system and shirk their responsibilities to their employees. This is a standard side effect of capitalism.

Until somebody invents the perfect system, with %100 employment at rates that guarantee an acceptable minimum standard of living, these 2 statements will remain true.

Yep, through my involvement with CAMRA I see fantastic breweries and pubs doing well, some good ones earlier in their business plan struggling with big rent hikes and cost of stock/staff availability in more rural areas (esp from the big pub cos, get managing tenants in a lower rate and hike it hugely when they are getting established after 18 months) and some shysters. On the latter, here is a prime example from the Midlands earlier this year  

 

Edited 1 hour ago by Gloucester Saint

[badgerx16]

40 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

I understand that and some people do need welfare. I know stories of guys working two jobs and struggling. I have the genuine utmost respect. Also for people in @sadoldgit situation.

However some need a kick up the ars and an ultimatum. I would question their tolerance threshold. That’s human nature. There is a lack of ars kicking in the current system.

Thanks for engaging in a respectful way.

Not bad for a Leftie, eh ?